The "Under 18" Rule

[gentlemom]

My most recent story submission was rejected for an alleged violation of Literotica's "No sex involving persons under age 18" Rule. My problem is that I thought my story had abided by the Rule. I have always understood the Rule thus: Stories may not include mention of sex acts involving two (or more) persons if any one of them is under the age of 18. Period.
Does it also forbid solo and secret masturbation by a minor? Or solo and secret masturbation fantasies by an adult about a minor? Does a detailed explanation of the Rule exist on this site?

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

My most recent story submission was rejected for an alleged violation of Literotica's "No sex involving persons under age 18" Rule. My problem is that I thought my story had abided by the Rule. I have always understood the Rule thus: Stories may not include mention of sex acts involving two (or more) persons if any one of them is under the age of 18. Period.
Does it also forbid solo and secret masturbation by a minor? Or solo and secret masturbation fantasies by an adult about a minor? Does a detailed explanation of the Rule exist on this site?

Sex is sex. Masturbations is sex. Gay and lesbian sex is sex. Heterosexual sex is sex. Animal sex is sex. Non-human sex is sex. That's all the explanation you need.

 

[evanslily]

The rule is actually here: http://www.literotica.com/faq/05235347.shtml#05319407

but to save you the bother of clicking on that link...

3. No sexual activity involving bestiality (you can write stories about supernatural beasts like ghosts, unicorns, werewolves, etc.) or underage persons will be considered. For the purposes of this site, the minimum legal age is 18. This site does not publish stories, articles, essays, or other material supporting, encouraging, or defending child abuse and/or exploitation.

The word is 'activity'. Which as Jenny points out (great to see you back by the way, Jenny! ), covers the whole multitude of sexual acts.

 

[hazel43]

My most recent story submission was rejected for an alleged violation of Literotica's "No sex involving persons under age 18" Rule. My problem is that I thought my story had abided by the Rule. I have always understood the Rule thus: Stories may not include mention of sex acts involving two (or more) persons if any one of them is under the age of 18. Period.
Does it also forbid solo and secret masturbation by a minor? Or solo and secret masturbation fantasies by an adult about a minor? Does a detailed explanation of the Rule exist on this site?

Yes, sad as it may seem, there are federal laws prohibiting any sexual content involving underaged people. The only way to avoid the issue is to leave out the mention of age.
If you must go there, try to develope the story in such a way so that the reader can only draw conclusions about the characters age through their own imagination.
Good luck

 

[Epmd607]

Yes, sad as it may seem, there are federal laws prohibiting any sexual content involving underaged people. The only way to avoid the issue is to leave out the mention of age.
If you must go there, try to develope the story in such a way so that the reader can only draw conclusions about the characters age through their own imagination.
Good luck

Our laws go so far as to state that minors have no sexuality unless they're a victim of a sex crime or having committed a sex crime. So to be safe, the minors in your story should be asexual. Description of fictional underage sex acts isn't illegal, it's just not allowed on this site. Which I agree with, there's no reason to describe underage sex when you can just say "He/She just turned 18." Right? If you want to describe a teenager having sex, 18 and 19 is fine. There are one or two stories I've seen here, from way back, that have sixteen and seventeen year olds, but that might be from before there were clear rules for what's acceptable. I mean, that's what I've seen, if you hint at the sexuality of a minor the editors will reject your story.

 

[gentlemom]

Thank you. I'll withdraw my submission, and be more careful in future.

 

[hazel43]

It makes me sad to think you are giving up There must be other aspects of your story that can be of value to readers.
It is strange, I have played on Lit for 5 years or so, but right now I can't figure out how to send an IM. LOL
But gentlemom, please don't give up unless there is just no other way.

 

[CopyCarver]

It makes me sad to think you are giving up There must be other aspects of your story that can be of value to readers.
It is strange, I have played on Lit for 5 years or so, but right now I can't figure out how to send an IM. LOL
But gentlemom, please don't give up unless there is just no other way.

My thoughts exactly. Just how feasible it may be to tweak the story depends, quite obviously, upon the theme and the plotline but there are usually ways and means to alchemize a rejection into an acceptance.

gentlemom, don't hesitate to shout if you think I can be os assistance. I tried to send you a PM but your contact routes are switched off.

 

[michchick98]

Thank you. I'll withdraw my submission, and be more careful in future.

As everyone else has said, it could be possible to eliminate the mention of age but still get the point across and leave it up to the reader to determine the age of the characters. Then, of course, you could always include a disclaimer at the beginning of your story "all characters are 18 or older" but that's only if you exclude the mention of age.

However, there are other sites that do allow this, but unfortunately we cannot post the links here.

 

[Teloz]

No problem for me, but...

... the age of consent in the UK is sixteen, so I'm sure some would find it irritating. In other countries of course it's lower, but as the servers are situated in the US it seems fair to stick to their rules. When in Rome and all that...

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

... I have played on Lit for 5 years or so, but right now I can't figure out how to send an IM. ...

To switch on your Private Messages, go to User CP (top left of this page) then click on Edit Options (in the left hand column) and then tick Enable Private Messaging in the second box down. Make sure that the next box down (Receive Private Messages only from Buddies and Moderators) is NOT ticked. Finally click Save Changes at the bottom of that page.

... the age of consent in the UK is sixteen, so I'm sure some would find it irritating. In other countries of course it's lower, but as the servers are situated in the US it seems fair to stick to their rules. When in Rome and all that...

The age of consent in the USA is set by each State. In some states it is as low as 14 (See http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm). The Lit rule is just that, a rule set by the owners of this site as to what they allow on their site.

 

[Teloz]

The age of consent in the USA is set by each State. In some states it is as low as 14 (See http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm). The Lit rule is just that, a rule set by the owners of this site as to what they allow on their site.

Still the same result though, if the rules say eighteen then eighteen it is. No point in flogging a dead horse.

I've just hd a look at that website, I'm amazed at how many states in the US deem homosexuality to be illegal!

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

Still the same result though, if the rules say eighteen then eighteen it is. No point in flogging a dead horse ...

My point precisely.

Incidentally, have a look at http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090902/tuk-semi-nude-model-appeared-under16-6323e80.html to see the way it is going in the UK. Most of our laws which are age-related (drink, smoking, cinema, etc.) use the wording "... is, or appears to be, under the age of ...". The only exceptions are things like voting and driving licenses.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

This has been kicked around forever.
From what I've seen there are some key words and phrases that light up the REJECT button.

High School
Clutching her teddy bear
Climbed out of her craddle
Prepubescent

and so on.

 

[Jagged]

The rule is what it is and sometimes I don't think it makes sense. Though I have no desire to write any ageplay stories I have had a couples in several stories meet in high school and in order to follow the rule sometimes I've had to have them wait as much as two years before enjoying love making. Now I know sometimes it takes time, but not always depending on the relationship. Your free to write whatever you want in this country, but other people have the right not to put it on display...especially their website.

My advice don't be specific about when sex happens and do things like "in their youth they both enjoyed stealing away from school to make love." The could be at any time and frankly I think it enhances the writing.

Among my friends who I've talked to over the years people have said they've lost their virgin between the ages of 13 to 22. One friend was 17 and her lover was 23...not legal not appropriate, but far from evil in my mind (she would spend another three years with him and remain friends). I was a late bloomer, but had all kinds of fun and a few things I wish never happen...lol but in the end I don't think it would have harmed me if some of it happened before I was 18.

 

[Azshade]

(Firstly with disclaimer I agree 100% with the 18 rule, and the right of the owners to regulate and endorse it).

Can I ask a touchy question. Why does fiction require regulation? For instance, I've written a poem before on another site about a psychopathic necrophile, complete with descriptives. I personally wouldn't do such acts (and I will quicken to add I've written far more love poems to my girlfriends than poems about psychos)!

I guess what I mean is, at what point does something become from a fetish to a society no-no and censored. I myself have written a few incest stories (without a shread of wanting to engage in real life, I love my girlfriend quite intently), but I am sure other people would find that morally repugnant. I'm personally not turned on by 'non consent' stories, however I am sure others are.

And here is my hypocrisy. In Australia the legal age of consent is 16, and stories regarding that age or higher I would have no objection too, but I would be stronly against lower ages. Why? It's just fiction. Why am I not outraged at non-consent or my own incest (also illegal) stories.

Anyone a psychology major want to tackle this?

 

[CWatson]

The legal repercussions. Simple as that.

By and large, most people subscribe to a live-and-let-live policy; it's completely necessary when you're a member of a site like this. Personally, I have some significant moral objections to incest stories--which means that a good 30% or 40% of this site is about something I don't want to read about. Should I beat my chest and go on a crusade? No, not hardly; I should sit down, shut up, and simply look the other way, because it is not my right to tell other people what they are or are not allowed to enjoy.

But others don't agree. They think it is their right to control other people. And, in their fanaticism, those disagree'ers are the ones most likely to take a website to task via legal action. And the pornography industry is particularly vulnerable to lawsuits: it isn't "respectable," it makes a shit-ton of money, and it dabbles in stuff that a lot of people consider to be immoral in the first place, even if it isn't. --And remember, America is founded on the defining concept of popularity; our voting mechanisms reflect it, our laws reflect it, and our courts reflect it. If the larger majority of Americans--or American voters--or the jury--thinks a thing is bad, then it is, regardless of things like reality, scientific fact or the truth. So the only choice for a sex site that wants to get along in peace is to have an iron-clad defense. The only choice is to have impenetrable armor, with no cracks for someone to sneak in. And, since Literotica is (if I recall correctly) the most popular erotic-stories site on the web, L & M have to be extra careful, because we're at the front of the line and when the shit hits the fan, we'll be the first to be spattered.

That's all it is.

(The irony is that, because America is founded on popularity contests, sex should be mainstream here: I mean, name one thing that's more popular! But no, our cultural traditions descend from super-fanatic conservatives who were so weird that England kicked them out. They came here to escape religious persecution and to live their chaste, aescetic lives in peace. On the whole, they succeeded.)

(Oh, and, as to the fetish thing: despite being a psychology major, I ain't tackling that with ten foot-poles. ;D)

 

[Epmd607]

(Firstly with disclaimer I agree 100% with the 18 rule, and the right of the owners to regulate and endorse it).

Can I ask a touchy question. Why does fiction require regulation? For instance, I've written a poem before on another site about a psychopathic necrophile, complete with descriptives. I personally wouldn't do such acts (and I will quicken to add I've written far more love poems to my girlfriends than poems about psychos)!

I guess what I mean is, at what point does something become from a fetish to a society no-no and censored. I myself have written a few incest stories (without a shread of wanting to engage in real life, I love my girlfriend quite intently), but I am sure other people would find that morally repugnant. I'm personally not turned on by 'non consent' stories, however I am sure others are.

And here is my hypocrisy. In Australia the legal age of consent is 16, and stories regarding that age or higher I would have no objection too, but I would be stronly against lower ages. Why? It's just fiction. Why am I not outraged at non-consent or my own incest (also illegal) stories.

Anyone a psychology major want to tackle this?

As far as I know you can't view or obtain pornographic material until you're eighteen in most of the United States. But you can have consensual sex in most states at the age of 16 or 17. So you can bang the author of a hardcore sex story, but you can't read their material or be filmed by them performing a sex act. Since some of you are English, anyone remember when Pete Townsend(The Who) got in trouble for posting a story involving 15 year olds having sex? He had already gotten in trouble for viewing pedo sites, then they said that story was a violation of his parole(or equivalent.)

What constitutes consensual sex under our laws is a mess. Sex between consenting adults isn't always legal, whether we're talking sodomy laws, incest, or old laws still on the books about what is acceptable between a married man and woman. Cunnilingus can lead to a jail sentence in a few places.

 

[Teloz]

As far as I know you can't view or obtain pornographic material until you're eighteen in most of the United States. But you can have consensual sex in most states at the age of 16 or 17. So you can bang the author of a hardcore sex story, but you can't read their material or be filmed by them performing a sex act. Since some of you are English, anyone remember when Pete Townsend(The Who) got in trouble for posting a story involving 15 year olds having sex? He had already gotten in trouble for viewing pedo sites, then they said that story was a violation of his parole(or equivalent.)

What constitutes consensual sex under our laws is a mess. Sex between consenting adults isn't always legal, whether we're talking sodomy laws, incest, or old laws still on the books about what is acceptable between a married man and woman. Cunnilingus can lead to a jail sentence in a few places.

Can you imagine the fuzz running a sting operation for cunnilingus? Would she bust him before or after she orgasmed?

 

[Epmd607]

Can you imagine the fuzz running a sting operation for cunnilingus? Would she bust him before or after she orgasmed?

Maybe it's passed on urban legend, but in a divorce case a man got a few weeks in jail for some obscure florida law because his wife proved he ate her out during their marriage. I'll look it up, there's gotta be a web log with bizarre sex charges.

 

[CopyCarver]

What constitutes consensual sex under our laws is a mess.

Dickens may not have mastered the use of "a" and "an," but it's impossible to refute his conclusion that “the law is a ass—a idiot."

 

[ples]

How much of it is control from a man's point of view. A normal young girl is really looking for relationship - not at all like the pictures on the web of a 13 year old with red lipstick and short panties. Young and vulnerable all the way up to legal age where you can see it on campus - every guy soph and up waiting for the new batch of freshmen.

 

[CWatson]

I dunno, ples. Some question marks might help clarify your statements.

 

[Epmd607]

How much of it is control from a man's point of view. A normal young girl is really looking for relationship - not at all like the pictures on the web of a 13 year old with red lipstick and short panties. Young and vulnerable all the way up to legal age where you can see it on campus - every guy soph and up waiting for the new batch of freshmen.

A nineteen-year-old girl is one of the least submissive creatures from what I've seen.

 

[Azshade]

Personally, I have some significant moral objections to incest stories--which means that a good 30% or 40% of this site is about something I don't want to read about.

This topic spiked my thoughts, and I decided to try and figure out why I have a 'incest fetish' if you will. My girlfriend and I spoke at length about it, and we came up with a theory. The Romeo and Juliet theory.

Basically, all the stories I write or read or whatever that are incest (with one notabble exception where it was done as a twist in the story), the underlying theme is "forbidden love". That is, in much the same way that the Capulets and the Montague were 'forbidden loves', clearly in incest stories they are forbidden loves. I enjoy seeing the set up of how it came to be, how they overcome the society norm etc.

It's a nice theory I guess. Still, at least I'm not a furry!