Let's talk about fascism

[richard_daily]

WOW!

The opening post here is nearly 100% wrong!

Cute, but wrong from a scholarly viewpoint.

It's sort of like defining "Republican" as someone who hates all races except their own and likes to tap a foot next to the urinal -- but with lots of incorrect C&P.

so do you just "FEEL" that it's wrong, or are you going to provide something that explains it more to your liking?

 

[Karen Kraft]

Good post.

Ummm.... no.

1. Not accurate from a viewpoint of political philosophy, confuses militarism with fascism, fails to distinguish between the philosophy and the people to whom the label is, in retrospect applied and, lastly, no dirty pictures, porn, or anything funny. Fervor and Zeal disguised as scholarship. Yawn.

 

[Karen Kraft]

just fap to the fact he not only bothered to read it but also C&Ped it for your edification

C&Ped it from Dr. Minder-Binder, Ph.D. emeritus, Hon.Chair, Dept. of Puff, Oxnard on Rind.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Ummm.... no.

1. Not accurate from a viewpoint of political philosophy, confuses militarism with fascism, fails to distinguish between the philosophy and the people to whom the label is, in retrospect applied and, lastly, no dirty pictures, porn, or anything funny. Fervor and Zeal disguised as scholarship. Yawn.

I enjoyed it.

 

[richard_daily]

Ummm.... no.

1. Not accurate from a viewpoint of political philosophy, confuses militarism with fascism, fails to distinguish between the philosophy and the people to whom the label is, in retrospect applied and, lastly, no dirty pictures, porn, or anything funny. Fervor and Zeal disguised as scholarship. Yawn.

militarism and fascism go hand in hand. Name one fascist movement that wasn't tied to militarism...

oh wait, I'm arguing with someone who claims that obama is a fascist... I can see where this is going...



people who adhere to a philosophy that is a modern construct are inherently tied to that philosophy by it's very nature. You can't distance that or denounce that as a flaw. It's disingenuous.

I tied in my own opinion in the original post, but you've yet to provide anything that counters it except just a vague opinion.

Strike two.

 

[richard_daily]

C&Ped it from Dr. Minder-Binder, Ph.D. emeritus, Hon.Chair, Dept. of Puff, Oxnard on Rind.

post a link.

 

[Karen Kraft]

militarism and fascism go hand in hand. Name one fascist movement that wasn't tied to militarism...

oh wait, I'm arguing with someone who claims that obama is a fascist... I can see where this is going...



people who adhere to a philosophy that is a modern construct are inherently tied to that philosophy by it's very nature. You can't distance that or denounce that as a flaw. It's disingenuous.

I tied in my own opinion in the original post, but you've yet to provide anything that counters it except just a vague opinion.

Strike two.

Whoopsie. You already lost the argument. You went personal at the first opportunity.

For the rest of you, who would actually like to discuss the political philosophy known as "fascism," let me say that, in the final analysis, fascism is merely a sect of socialism. Any personal comments about me will be read as an admission on your part that I am 100% correct.

 

[richard_daily]

Whoopsie. You already lost the argument. You went personal at the first opportunity.

For the rest of you, who would actually like to discuss the political philosophy known as "fascism," let me say that, in the final analysis, fascism is merely a sect of socialism. Any personal comments about me will be read as an admission on your part that I am 100% correct.

Then why has every Fascist movement in the history of the word jailed socialists and trade unionists?


And you don't get to make the rules... sorry.

Although I went no more personal than you did... so you really should stop hiding and provide a real argument.

 

[The_Trouvere]

militarism and fascism go hand in hand. Name one fascist movement that wasn't tied to militarism...

oh wait, I'm arguing with someone who claims that obama is a fascist... I can see where this is going...

The most important difference between Nazism and Italian Fascism on one hand, and the democratic left and the nondemocratic left on the other is that when the Nazis and Fascists came to power nearly everyone who had been rich before the takeover remained rich afterward. The only exceptions were rich Jews, and the small majority of rich gentiles who opposed Hitler and Mussolini.

When the democratic left is voted into power rich people pay much higher taxes. Their private property rights are curtailed. When the nondemocratic left seizes power the rich lose everything but their lives. Sometimes they lose those too.

 

[richard_daily]

The most important difference between Nazism and Italian Fascism on one hand, and the democratic left and the nondemocratic left on the other is that when the Nazis and Fascists came to power nearly everyone who had been rich before the takeover remained rich afterward. The only exceptions were rich Jews, and the small majority of rich gentiles who opposed Hitler and Mussolini.

When the democratic left is voted into power rich people pay much higher taxes. Their private property rights are curtailed. When the nondemocratic left seizes power the rich lose everything but their lives. Sometimes they lose those too.

There was no semblance of "socialism" under any fascist regime. I am willing to discuss communism in another thread happily, and it's inherent flaws, but funny thing is, I don't see nearly as many people misusing the word communism as I do fascism and socialism.. Because the elite branch of the right wants to re-write history and change the use of the words to confuse people so that they can paint liberals and obama as the purveyors of all that is evil in the world.

 

[The_Trouvere]

Fascism is unlikely for the United States because most Americans are too individualistic.

What is possible is a reversion to much of the status quo that existed from the end of the Reconstruction Era in 1876 to the beginning of the Progressive Era, which can be said to have begun with the presidency of Teddy Roosevelt in 1901.

Back then blacks were reduced to second class citizenship in the South, with the institution of Jim Crow laws. They were terrorized by the Klu Klux Klan. There were no income taxes, no minimum wages laws, no Food and Drug Administration, no unemployment compensation, no Social Security, no environmental protection laws, and no Medicare. The government limited its intervention in the economy to tariffs, business subsidies, and the violent suppression of trade unions.

Most of those on and to the right of the Republican Party are openly nostalgic for this era in American history. Many of them publicly advocate a reversion to much that existed back then.

 

[richard_daily]

Fascism is unlikely for the United States because most Americans are too individualistic.

What is possible is a reversion to the status quo that existed from the end of the Reconstruction Era in 1876 to the beginning of the Progressive Era, which can be said to have begun with the presidency of Teddy Roosevelt in 1901.

Back then blacks were reduced to second class citizenship in the South, with the institution of Jim Crow laws. They were terrorized by the Klu Klux Klan. There were no income taxes, no minimum wages laws, no Food and Drug Administration, no unemployment compensation, no Social Security, no environmental protection laws, and no Medicare. The government limited its intervention in the economy to tariffs, business subsidies, and the violent suppression of trade unions.

Most of those on and to the right of the Republican Party are openly nostalgic for this era in American history. Many of them publicly advocate a reversion to much that existed back then.

you just contradicted yourself from the start of your post to the end, and you proved one of the points i was making in my original post.

The return to "white christian america" is one of the cornerstones of fascism in this country. it is the tie that binds the majority of fascists in this country together. They can have their pseudo-"individuality", and yet be shock troops for the rich, republican elite.

 

[where]

For the rest of you, who would actually like to discuss the political philosophy known as "fascism," let me say that, in the final analysis, fascism is merely a sect of socialism.

Oh. Dear.

back to political philosophy 101 for you, young lady!

 

[blunt_trauma]

still no porn.

 

[ChauvanistPig]

fascism is merely a sect of socialism.

I wondered what happened to the child of

Stu Rasmussen and Ken Pidd
http://transadvocate.com/autumnsandeen/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/mayor-stu-rasmussen.jpg
http://www.nceta.flinders.edu.au/about_us/images/KenPidd.JPG

 

[RightField]

In 2004 Dr Laurence Britt outlined the points of known fascist dictatorships around the world, including; Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile).

Looks like the democrats policies...cronyism in particular...chicago politics at its best.

 

[The_Trouvere]

Fallacy: Begging the Question

you just contradicted yourself from the start of your post to the end, and you proved one of the points i was making in my original post.

The return to "white christian america" is one of the cornerstones of fascism in this country. it is the tie that binds the majority of fascists in this country together. They can have their pseudo-"individuality", and yet be shock troops for the rich, republican elite.

You are defining American fascism. Then you are demonstrating that right wing activists are fascists by that definition. This is known as the fallacy of circular reasoning, or begging the question

--------

Begging the Question is a fallacy in which the premises include the claim that the conclusion is true or (directly or indirectly) assume that the conclusion is true...This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because simply assuming that the conclusion is true (directly or indirectly) in the premises does not constitute evidence for that conclusion.
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/begging-the-question.html

--------

Mussolini was a militant atheist. Hitler's religious beliefs are harder to determine. Nevertheless, in Hitler's Table Talk he expressed his contempt for Christianity to friends and associates.

The American status quo that existed from 1876 to 1901 was ugly, but it was not fascist. Any acceptable definition of fascism includes a strong central government, a one party dictatorship, and a private army like the black shirts in Italy, or the brown shirts in Germany. No one in the United States with any prominence at all is calling for that.

 

[The_Trouvere]

For the rest of you, who would actually like to discuss the political philosophy known as "fascism," let me say that, in the final analysis, fascism is merely a sect of socialism.

Looks like the democrats policies...cronyism in particular...chicago politics at its best.

I have already explained the difference between fascism and the left. Go back and read my post.

 

[The_Trouvere]

George Orwell on fascism

In his essay, "Politics and the English Language," which was written one year after the end of the Second World War, George Orwell wrote, "The word Fascism now has no meaning except in so far as it signifies, 'something that is not good'."

I do not think it is any more useful, honest, or fair to call right wing activists in the United States "Fascists," than it is for them to call President Obama and his supporters "Marxists," or "Communists."

Nevertheless, right wing activists cannot usually be accurately called "conservatives" either, because most of them would like to see major changes in the U.S. economy and legal system.

Dwight Eisenhower and Richard Nixon could be called conservatives. Eisenhower did not try to repeal the reforms of the New Deal. He tried to administer them better than the Democrats with less expense. Nixon had the same approach toward the reforms of the Great Society. Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan, by contrast, wanted to restore as much as possible of the economic system of the 1920's, or even the nineteenth century.

Anyone who wants to repeal basic reforms of the twentieth century like the Food and Drug Administration, the income tax, Social Security, and/or Medicare can more accurately be called a "reactionary."

Those who advocate a national sales tax can be called "right wing radicals" because they advocate major changes that have never been tried.

 

[Karen Kraft]

Then why has every Fascist movement in the history of the word jailed socialists and trade unionists?


And you don't get to make the rules... sorry.

Although I went no more personal than you did... so you really should stop hiding and provide a real argument.

I didn't think I went personal, but whatever.

Okay then, you want The Truth? Can you handle the truth? It's not going to be pleasant (or short - lol)...

 

[Karen Kraft]

In 2004 Dr Laurence Britt outlined the points of known fascist dictatorships around the world, including; Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile).

I guess Larry Britt never saw the May Day Parade pass Red Square.

Hahahahahahahahaha....

 

[Karen Kraft]

Okay, here ya go:

Oh, you are so right.

Gee, I wish I could learn some more really cool stuff from you.

I'm dumb and don't know how to explain stuff like you guys can.

Saying anything to me is just pears before swine.

I dunno anything. You all just agree with your most excellent super cool bitchin theory of political philosophy.

I bet ya'll agree too. It's best that way.

 

[where]

awwwww.. and I never thought you would cut and paste!

bad girlie!

 

[The_Trouvere]

As one begins to analyze the underpinnings of fascist thought, one learns that this is a group highly anti-capitalist people. One would be hard pressed to find a Bolshevik or a Social Democrat more vehement in his or her renunciation of traditional capitalism. For example in the 1930s, George Orwell (1984 and others) lamented that the struggle leaving so many dead and wounded is, essentially, between fascists and socialists since, at the end of the day (inside joke – disregard) “We are all the same.”

Where did George Orwell write that? I have a four volume set of The Collected Essays, Journalism and Letters of George Orwell.

In the first volume, which covered Orwell's writings from 1920 to 1940 I could not find that quote. I did find, "I think one must fight for Socialism and against Fascism. I mean fight physically with weapons," and "Fascism is only a development of capitalism."

 

[The_Trouvere]

Hitler on Social Democracy

Indeed, in 1932, Hitler’s National Socialist German Workers Party campaigned against both the Marxists and the Capitalists, urging the folks to believe that the nazi system will take the best of both the other systems and create “a new socialist man.”

In Mein Kampf Hitler condemns Marxism as vehemently as he condemned the Jews. The index of my edition of Mein Kampf does not include an entry for capitalism. This is what he wrote about Social Democracy in Chapter II, "Years of Study and Suffering:"

"At the age of seventeen I had rarely heard the word 'Marxism,' whereas 'Social Democracy' and 'Socialism' were identical ideas to me. Here too, the hand of fate had to open my eyes to this unprecedented betrayal of the people.

"Till then I had known the Social Democratic Party only from a spectator's point of view, on the occasion of various mass demonstrations, without having the slightest insight into the mentality of its followers or the meaning of its doctrine; but now I suddenly came into contact with the products of its education and view of life; I not achieved in a few months what otherwise might have taken decades: the realization that it was a pestilential whore covered with the mask of social virtue and brotherly love, and that mankind must rid the world of her as soon as possible, or otherwise the world might easily be rid of mankind."