Changes in Authors' Hangout?

[Pure]

Hi Stella, [unofficial views]

thank you for your note [reproduced at the end]. you raise a valid issue. i'd like, however, to keep "my" thread on topic. but it's interesting that your views DO relate to democracy in the Authors' Forum and its character.

I'm neutral as regards setting up a separate politics forum.

But i wonder whether your judgment about the appropriateness of politics threads is a common view. After all there are threads on pet illnesses, gay marriage laws, and atheism. (Below, i deal with the supposition that your views ARE those of the majority.)

Implicitly then, you are calling for AH to be moderated. I don't know if the majority want that (to which Laurel is NOT bound). then the moderator would decide if something's politics and move it to the political forum. And maybe it's primarily about gay issues, so move that to the GLBT forum; and if it's about S/M, move that to the BDSM forum.

do you want a moderator to do that? do others?

lacking a moderator, *even if we suppose* that a majority dislike politics threads, there is no way to prevent them. one can post about Jesus Christ, gay marriage, or Fido's worms. or politics.

the virtue of 'unmoderated' is that the majority cannot suppress postings on something they don't want to see. when, however, you seem to call for the majority [supposing it's there] to flex its muscles and _clean up_ the threads in Authors' Hangout, that gives a particular character to 'democracy.'

lastly, apart from redirecting others, why don't the persons with your views who want writerly discussions--including you--, start threads on them, and post lots of replies in them? the people can easily 'speak' this way. this would cause writerly threads to dominate page one, and show how this grouping prefers talking plot arcs, interpellation, and book sales, and not Obama or God's existence or Fido's worms.

thank you for raising this issue; concerned people can post their views and state the kind of 'clean up' that they want, if so.
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Originally Posted by Pure
3113//Why do the athletes in your avatar have clothes on?//

pure ///i've not figured out yet how to photoshop their clothes off!

but surely, not everyone's interests, here, lean more toward the prurient, than the political? ///

Stella: Isn't this a porn writer's forum? If I wanted a political forum, I would be here or someplace like it.

[ADDED by pure] http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/

A place for writers to talk about writing, that allows graphic talk about adult subjects, is a much rarer animal.


Whaddaya say we talk once more about requesting a politics forum here at lit?

 

[Boxlicker101]

This is called "The Authors' Hangout." I take it from that it is a place for authors to hangout, and rap and talk politics or talk writing or show off pictures of grandchildren or ask for good vibes because of a family emergency. In other words, we do all kinds of things here that have nothing to do with writing. Personally, I would rather keep it that way. If there is a political thread on this forum, people are free to ignore it if they want.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

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[Stella_Omega]

Pure, I have a question; Why do you never use the quote function? It's been a part of forum software for more than ten years, you ought to have noticed it by now. When you c&p'd my comment, you left out the live links that made my sentence "I would be here" make sense.

Last year being an election year, American politics suddenly became too important to avoid, even on a porn board. In the interests of the rest of my life, not to mention my children's future, I talked about the presidential candidates, Prop 8, our war prisoners. I talked about them everywhere, including the place that had always been my refuge from divisiveness and partisan political anger, the AH.

AH is not, at this time, that refuge. I have the largest ignore list I can remember having-- not because I hate those people, but because they start political threads as a rule.
I see an influx of GB people, who have come to AH specifically to talk politics. It really seems to me that the influx ought to be the other way around...

A google search just now gave me 146,000,000 returns for "politics forum".

As opposed to a mere 128,000 returns for "erotica writers forum."

I feel that the writerly nature of this forum is worth preserving.

last year, I proposed a "challenges" subforum, which now regret; one more writerly topic is missing from the balance of this forum. But everyone was fairly supportive of the idea, it seemed like an addition not a subtraction.

My proposal now is an addition-- and a subtraction. I propose that we request the challenge subforum to be subtracted, and it's threads placed bak into this hangoput. And I propose that we add a politics forum in its place. Yes, that certainly means that a moderator or three would have to be available to move threads into it. It works quite well for the BDSM boards, which have managed to keep their original purposes in place while allowing the normal fluctuations of membership and tone.

 

[Stella_Omega]

the virtue of 'unmoderated' is that the majority cannot suppress postings on something they don't want to see. when, however, you seem to call for the majority [supposing it's there] to flex its muscles and _clean up_ the threads in Authors' Hangout, that gives a particular character to 'democracy.'

One thing I, at least, don't want to see is hate speech. As i have said at least once a month lately, the right to free speech should not mean the loss of the right for readressment. In a forum as non-moderated as this one is, the only recourse the harmed party has is to pretend the hatefulness was never spoken. therefore, we have a brand new right here- the right to lie to ourselves.

lastly, apart from redirecting others, why don't the persons with your views who want writerly discussions--including you--, start threads on them, and post lots of replies in them? the people can easily 'speak' this way.

That's a good question.

One easy answer is that "the people" who are writerly have left. And new writerly people don't stay.

I do not come here girded for battle, planning my campaign to post a quota of writerly threads in order to drive The Bad Politics off the first page. If that's what's necessary, I'd rather-- and in fact, I have-- gone looking for more congenial fields.

But there is a more complex answer as well, which is the subtle difference between posts asking for sympathy-- over fido's worms, over the desire for human rights, over the worry for a loved one-- and divisive posts such as most of the political ones.

I tend to read everything in this forum from a writerly point of view. The isolated blurt thread, the never-ending association threads, mostly support the work of imagination which is a writer's main task.

But there are fewer and fewer writers here-- I see no need to be here if I need to battle for my reasons to be here, and I see a lot of other people conspicuous by their absence as well.

it's up to Laurel, of course. I predict that this forum will simply become GB Junior, unless she wants to nurture and protect the unique character it once had.

(ETA) "Hate Speech" is not the same as an "unpopular view."

 

[voluptuary_manque]

I belong to and have belonged to several sites. Most of the others have implemented a 'politics' forum, in one case a 'politics and religion' forum. The common result was to send those whose major goal in life is to stand on a soapbox and rail to a place where they could scream at each other. Those who do not find this entertaining are left to get on with life in peace and contentment. Whether such a action would return the AH to the kind of place Stella remembers is undetermined but it sure would make it more civilized.

 

[SimonBrooke]

One easy answer is that "the people" who are writerly have left. And new writerly people don't stay.

Well said, Stella. I have nothing useful to add but wanted to reassure you that you are not a lone voice crying in the wilderness.

This place can be an authors hangout. Or it can be a political battleground. It can't be both.

 

[cantdog]

You people spend way too much time fretting about what everyone else is talking about. "This subject ought to be taboo!" What crap.

There is no part of living which can't be writerly. We write from our lives and those which touch us. We write about humans, and all that being human includes. Thus, the more a writer sees of life or hears of life, the deeper the well from which he may draw.

Politics, like sex, like improvisation, like malarkey, hogwash, foolishness, mean-spiritedness, altruism, sacrifice, spite, misery, ignorance, wisdom and cleverness, is human. You can't have a workplace without politics as soon as two people work there.

So much for the well.

What we draw from it is Story. The trick to being a good writer is to be able to show people a story, using words as opposed to, say, acrylics or video. All the fancy-ass writerly claptrap in the world-- interpellation??-- don't mean much if you have nothing to say or can't make it get said without losing people halfway through.

I didn't go to school for this. Someone asking for a close definition of 'theme' is asking the wrong guy. Writer challenges bore me, because I write when I have something to say. I sure as hell didn't hang here for all those years to discuss story elements with educated dilettantes or write little assignments.

You take this place too seriously. Hang out. If you don't want a pointless game thread, by all means don't open one. Same for creative writing class, politics, obituaries or birthdays.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Well said, Stella. I have nothing useful to add but wanted to reassure you that you are not a lone voice crying in the wilderness.

This place can be an authors hangout. Or it can be a political battleground. It can't be both.

I've spent today browsing another forum group at absolutewrite.com.

The general conversation board looks a bit like this board, and there is a sub forum for writers of erotica-- not to mention almost any other genre you may be interested in, or combination thereof. The focus is on writing, all over the boards, and there is a fair speech policy in effect with some very intelligent methods of moderation keeping it all going-- Stop by and take a look, it might suit you too

 

[sr71plt]

Absolutewrite is tightly controlled by a small clique that throws out anyone who even looks crosseyed at one of the annointed and whose mission in life seems to be to harry one particular inferior publisher. (Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln . . .)

 

[Liar]

Personally, I find the politic (and other) discussion threads to be a great boon to what I need in the type of writing I do these days. I have no lack of imagination, no need to fuel my muse with any more topos per se. What I can use though is to excersize my writing precision, to express ideas in as clear and unmistakable ways as possible, to flex some wit and engage in discourse without becoming boorish or long winded.

To get,
the point,
across.

In these trench war discussions, it's blatantly impossible to change people's opinions anyway. But that's not really why I do it. If I try to express a thought, and someone reply, indicating that they indeed understood what I meant (agreed with me or not is another question), I, as an author, have learned something of significant value.

Call it what you will. I'm doing it right now, in fact. And this ain't exactly a poli shouting match thread.

The thing that bothers me about the whole "all the real authors have already fled the Hangout" thing that I hear now and then, is that there's apparently a magic wonderland of authorly delight and eternal civil discourse somewhere out there, where all the Old Timers engage in writerly perspective sharing, followed by cuddles. And nobody has bothered to tell me where the hell that is.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Absolutewrite is tightly controlled by a small clique that throws out anyone who even looks crosseyed at one of the annointed and whose mission in life seems to be to harry one particular inferior publisher. (Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln . . .)

By "looking crosseyed" I'm betting you mean; "Attempting to impose srplt's august authority."

I've noticed that kind of thing is rather frowned upon over there-- one of the reasons I think the place might suit me.

 

[sr71plt]

By "looking crosseyed" I'm betting you mean; "Attempting to impose srplt's august authority."

No, that's not what I mean. And, with this crack, you are displaying the sort of nastiness that you decry on this board. You seem to be what you claim to abhor.

By all means flip on over there. You frequently say you're leaving, but you never do (and you don't post to Lit. as an author, either. So, no loss.)

 

[DeeZire]

A funny thing happened to me a couple of months ago when we had that big community ignore list thread. Upon implementing my ignore list, most of the political threads vanished! Now and then I see one on the main forum page, where they're not hidden if that particular thread was the last one posted to that particular forum. I see it and go "where did that come from?" Then I notice the OP was Amicus and I realize why I never saw that 14-page monstrosity.

I suspect if there was a political forum, I could do away with my ignore list, which would be a good thing. I don't like going through life with blinders on, but at the same time, I don't like going to sleep mad - hence the ignore list remains.

So, I would vote for a political forum, and I would welcome back the writer's challenges into the AH. If a moderator was appointed with limited responsibilities - like moving threads from one forum to another - I don't see any sort of censorship issue in that. Whatever. As a result of RL issues, I'm not around here much anyway.

 

[sr71plt]

Those striving for attention or shock value will go to where there are readers, no matter what informal limits you set on topics. That's just the way it is.

 

[TE999]

"We dunt need no steenking moderators."

What I enjoy about the AH is the freewheeling style of subject matter. Any and all things can be and are discussed here. If something annoys you, don't bother with it. Use the Iggy Button if you choose. I sincerely doubt if any minds are changed by the periodic wrangling over socio-political issues, but everyone vents their frustrations, predjudices and opinions and in the end it doesn't really matter anyway. In fact, some of it is funny.

IMO the AH is fine the way it is. Literary purists may be annoyed, but the rest of us like what we have here...a Hangout.

 

[Stella_Omega]

"We dunt need no steenking moderators."

What I enjoy about the AH is the freewheeling style of subject matter. Any and all things can be and are discussed here. If something annoys you, don't bother with it. Use the Iggy Button if you choose. I sincerely doubt if any minds are changed by the periodic wrangling over socio-political issues, but everyone vents their frustrations, predjudices and opinions and in the end it doesn't really matter anyway. In fact, some of it is funny.

IMO the AH is fine the way it is. Literary purists may be annoyed, but the rest of us like what we have here...a Hangout.

I have you on iggy, Tom, and I don't like doing that.

 

[DesertPirate]

"We dunt need no steenking moderators."

What I enjoy about the AH is the freewheeling style of subject matter. Any and all things can be and are discussed here. If something annoys you, don't bother with it. Use the Iggy Button if you choose. I sincerely doubt if any minds are changed by the periodic wrangling over socio-political issues, but everyone vents their frustrations, predjudices and opinions and in the end it doesn't really matter anyway. In fact, some of it is funny.

IMO the AH is fine the way it is. Literary purists may be annoyed, but the rest of us like what we have here...a Hangout.

It's a place to learn, to laugh, to vent, to console or be consoled. It's a pretty damn neat place overall.
I agree with you Tom, leave it alone.

 

[Guest]

A funny thing happened to me a couple of months ago when we had that big community ignore list thread. Upon implementing my ignore list, most of the political threads vanished! Now and then I see one on the main forum page, where they're not hidden if that particular thread was the last one posted to that particular forum. I see it and go "where did that come from?" Then I notice the OP was Amicus and I realize why I never saw that 14-page monstrosity.

I suspect if there was a political forum, I could do away with my ignore list, which would be a good thing. I don't like going through life with blinders on, but at the same time, I don't like going to sleep mad - hence the ignore list remains.

So, I would vote for a political forum, and I would welcome back the writer's challenges into the AH. If a moderator was appointed with limited responsibilities - like moving threads from one forum to another - I don't see any sort of censorship issue in that. Whatever. As a result of RL issues, I'm not around here much anyway.

That would be my case, too.

Real life issues are keeping me busy.

And when I do read the threads here, or, God forbid, post an opinion, the ridicule and nasty comments make me wish I hadn't said a word.

I am dismayed at the absolute glee some posters display when they make fun of the poster, not the opinion.

My ignore list is huge. And that bothers me.


Edited to add - Nahh, never mind. My emotions are a mess from real life issues.

But I guess the AH isn't really the place for me to be now.

 

[DeeZire]

...I sincerely doubt if any minds are changed by the periodic wrangling over socio-political issues...

Um... actually, my mind was changed on the subject of nuclear waste, not by Ami or DP, but by someone stating enough factual information to inspire me to do a little research on my own. There can be value in seeing the same issue from different viewpoints, as long as they're reasoned and rational.

My biggest forum-related disappointment here at the AH was waiting... and waiting... and waiting for wmrs2 to post one of her crucifixion fiction pieces. Or perhaps she did it after I put her on ignore? Damn! Am I going to have to turn off my ignore list just to find out what's going on around here?

 

[TE999]

I have you on iggy, Tom, and I don't like doing that.

I'm sorry you feel that way, Stella. I thought you were a big enough person to agree to disagree on issues. I bear no malice, but I will argue my point.

If I'm on Iggy...how'd you read my post? Are you seeing this one too?

 

[TE999]

Um... actually, my mind was changed on the subject of nuclear waste, not by Ami or DP, but by someone stating enough factual information to inspire me to do a little research on my own. There can be value in seeing the same issue from different viewpoints, as long as they're reasoned and rational.

My biggest forum-related disappointment here at the AH was waiting... and waiting... and waiting for wmrs2 to post one of her crucifixion fiction pieces. Or perhaps she did it after I put her on ignore? Damn! Am I going to have to turn off my ignore list just to find out what's going on around here?

Well, there you go. I have no quarrel with stating facts and encouraging others to do their own research. I don't like slap fights, put downs and taunts. I may use humor or satire to make a point or challenge a statement, but I never diss anyone.

 

[DG Hear]

I'm not for changing it. There are all different types of threads. If I don't like one, I bypass it. If I don't care much for the posters, I bypass them also. There is also the ignore button if you want to stay away from certain posters.

It's a free site and you can read or not read what you want. If you want differnt threads, then start them. Other's will read them, if not, they will go by the wayside.

Why promote other sites? Seems rather unfair to this sites owners. They give you a fee place to post your thoughts, idea's and opinions. If that isn't good enought then maybe you should look elsewhere.

It's just my opinion, but I think it's a fair one.
DG

 

[Guest]

I am looking elsewhere.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I'm sorry you feel that way, Stella. I thought you were a big enough person to agree to disagree on issues. I bear no malice, but I will argue my point.

If I'm on Iggy...how'd you read my post? Are you seeing this one too?

Easy, I click on "view this post." I wouldn't bother with, say, jbj's-- but if it's not about politics, you are always worth talking to

Well, there you go. I have no quarrel with stating facts and encouraging others to do their own research. I don't like slap fights, put downs and taunts. I may use humor or satire to make a point or challenge a statement, but I never diss anyone.

Odd you should say that!
I don't like right-wing humor, which is based on cruelty in my experience, and you started some threads that really hurt my feelings, frankly. Either I say "hey that hurts my feelings because," and get mocked for it, or I pretend you never said it. Therefore, the iggy button.

As SSS has pointed out, it's never worth being honest about one's feelings here. Like her, I have never had such a long iggy list as I do right now. Frankly you, DP, all of you dudes who think the forum is just right the way it is, you are driving off a segment of the people who made the forum what it is-- what it was, I should say-- the people who gave it the atmosphere that drew you all to it. *shrug*

A politics subforum would negate about 75% of my ignores. Hell, I generally have shereads on iggy, because she so often starts these inflammatory threads that stir up the muck.

(ETA) "Hate Speech" is not the same as "an unpopular view."