Ron paul: Obama's goal is economic collapse

[KingOrfeo]

Hey FDR type policies worked incredibly well in the crash of the early '20s as you very well know! Brought that crash right out it did, it did!







Oh, wait...

There were no "FDR type" policies in the early '20s unless you define the term so broadly as to make it meaningless. E.g., the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act (1) was not an "FDR type" policy and (2) did not cause the Depression, though some crackpots say it did.

 

[mark_j]

What ended the Great Depression was high government spending, high government employment, and high taxation on the rich. In 1944 the top tax rate was 94%. The unemployment rate was 1.2%

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=213
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104719.html

Too simplistic and you are ignoring key events.

The high tax rates prior to WW-2 were for incomes over 1 mil (and were for a short time on income over 5 mil during the depression) during WW-2 they dropped the top bracket to 200K.

Same with unemployment figures. In 1932 the rate was 23.6% and it didn't drop below 15% until 1940 when the rate was 14.6%. So that is what, 8 years prior to WW-2 that FDR was in office? Then in 1942 (using your chart links) it was 4.7%.

But I guess that we have to ignore the events of Dec 7th 1941 and America's entry into WW-2. The massive government spending you so admire was to put several million men under arms to fight a war. Prior to 1942 the amount of spending was a drop in the bucket comparatively.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Roosevelt and Bush are straw men. Try living for today. We don't have a depression, so why would FDR's policies work anyway (and they prolonged the depression, as you very well know)?

Of course, my dear.

 

[VisualExplorer]

"The criminals who terrorize our cities are not exclusively young black males, but they largely are. As children, they are trained to hate whites, to believe that white oppression is responsible for all black ills, to "fight the power", to steal and loot as much money from the white enemy as possible. Anything is justified against "The man".
--Ron Paul
And there are many more along the same lines.

So yeah, by all means let's pay close attention to what this racist homophobic rambling old man has to say.

 

[Texas_Tea]

Ron Paul may be the best we got in congress, but I still believe in term limits. Paul has cashed way too many fucking checks to be considered snow white.

 

[Songcatcher]

"The criminals who terrorize our cities are not exclusively young black males, but they largely are. As children, they are trained to hate whites, to believe that white oppression is responsible for all black ills, to "fight the power", to steal and loot as much money from the white enemy as possible. Anything is justified against "The man".
--Ron Paul

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me as far as sociology goes.

 

[MechaBlade]

His Dad was a Marxist.
His mother studied Marxism and was a member of the little red Unitarian church that preached dialectic materialism.
They chose as his mentor, Frank Davis Marshall, a communist.
In his own book, he describes how his feelings of isolation led to his seeking out and being accepted by the ivy-league Marxists professors.

Tell me what leads you to believe he's anything but a Marxist at the core?

Many of the things he said on the campaign trail about pain, reordering the economy, higher energy prices, and fairness also spoke to his natural inclinations.

And I was raised as a Christian. We all know how that turned out.

He's not a Marxist because he hasn't instituted or suggested instituting any Marxist policies. I'm pretty sure reordering the economy was about creating more green jobs. Higher energy prices has nothing to do with Marxism. And I don't see what pain and fairness has to do with anything.

I suppose the government's purchase of GM was his closest thing to government takeover of private corporations. So that makes him about as Marxist as George W. for W's stimulus bill.

 

[tinylittlegnat]

Ron Paul may be the best we got in congress, but I still believe in term limits. Paul has cashed way too many fucking checks to be considered snow white.

dont forget all the rascist things he has said over the years in his newsletter. go ahead to youtube and look it up. its amazing he could get reelected after the things that were published in it.

 

[tmleadr03]

And I was raised as a Christian. We all know how that turned out.

He's not a Marxist because he hasn't instituted or suggested instituting any Marxist policies. I'm pretty sure reordering the economy was about creating more green jobs. Higher energy prices has nothing to do with Marxism. And I don't see what pain and fairness has to do with anything.

I suppose the government's purchase of GM was his closest thing to government takeover of private corporations. So that makes him about as Marxist as George W. for W's stimulus bill.

We see how well that went in Spain didnt we?

 

[off2bed]

dont forget all the rascist things he has said over the years in his newsletter. go ahead to youtube and look it up. its amazing he could get reelected after the things that were published in it.

"Order was restored to Los Angeles after the 1992 riots when blacks went "to pick up their welfare checks." Is that a false statement?

"The criminals who terrorize our cities -- in riots and on every non-riot day -- are not exclusively young black males, but they largely are. As children, they are trained to hate whites, to believe that white oppression is responsible for all black ills, to 'fight the power,' to steal and loot as much money from the white enemy as possible." Is that a false statement?

He's said repeatedly that he didn't write those. When he defends himself he sounds whiny and un-presidential, which is why I've never liked him.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

We see how well that went in Spain didnt we?

Spain doesn't count!




tee hee tee hee

 

[unregistered]

 

[Bsquad]

What ended the Great Depression was high government spending, high government employment, and high taxation on the rich. In 1944 the top tax rate was 94%. The unemployment rate was 1.2%

Ummm...WOW...okay, I can't pass that ludicrus falicy up.

Well, all that high government spending, and high government emplyoment were a result of something you might have heard of, the Second World War maybe? Lowered unemployment rate was a result of the US Draft, not the new Deal or any economic policies. Taking twenty five percent of your entire eligible workforce out of the equation dosen't exactly mean you've made any positive impact on the economy.

No economic recovery was a result of the start of the Second World War for that matter, production of war materials increased, but the true meter of an economy, the production of Consumer goods shrank due to the immense re-tooling of US industry to war production...there was next to no commercial production. People might have had money, but they didn't have anything to spend it on, and that is incredibly detrimental to the economy. The Depression didn't end with the Second World War it didn't end with the New Deal or FDR, it ended when the GI's came home and started rebuilding after the War ended.

Oh, and by the way a result of all that government spending was a total devaluation of the US Dollar and the national debt that we still have today. (not to mention the per capital level of government spending is higher today than in 1945 and our economy is worse.)

Inflation is the problem. The Government is spending money it dosen't have and that's making the value of that monney plument. That's the reason energy prices are so high. That's the reason healthcare costs are so high. That's the reason the economy is in such awful shape. There's a rather interesting example of this situation in history. Germany, 1919, a healthy productive nation with a strong economy destroyed by inflation. The Stock market, employment, those are nothing. Inflation is what's going to strangle us.

 

[The_Trouvere]

Ummm...WOW...okay, I can't pass that ludicrus falicy up.

Well, all that high government spending, and high government emplyoment were a result of something you might have heard of, the Second World War maybe? Lowered unemployment rate was a result of the US Draft, not the new Deal or any economic policies. Taking twenty five percent of your entire eligible workforce out of the equation dosen't exactly mean you've made any positive impact on the economy.

What ended the Depression was high government spending and high government employment paid for by high taxes on the rich. This did not happen earlier because of Republican opposition. Nevertheless, if those who were paid to make and use weapons had been paid instead to build public schools, public recreational facilities, public transportation facilities, public hospitals, and other aspects of the public economy, the effects on the economy would have been better.

 

[tinylittlegnat]

"Order was restored to Los Angeles after the 1992 riots when blacks went "to pick up their welfare checks." Is that a false statement?

"The criminals who terrorize our cities -- in riots and on every non-riot day -- are not exclusively young black males, but they largely are. As children, they are trained to hate whites, to believe that white oppression is responsible for all black ills, to 'fight the power,' to steal and loot as much money from the white enemy as possible." Is that a false statement?

He's said repeatedly that he didn't write those. When he defends himself he sounds whiny and un-presidential, which is why I've never liked him.

even if he didnt they still had his name at the bottom as if he was and they were in his newsletter. the theing was called the ron paul newsletter. if it was called the al franken newsletter and a story had his name under it i wouldnt care hom much he said he didnt write it. al would be responsible and so is ron

 

[off2bed]

even if he didnt they still had his name at the bottom as if he was and they were in his newsletter. the theing was called the ron paul newsletter. if it was called the al franken newsletter and a story had his name under it i wouldnt care hom much he said he didnt write it. al would be responsible and so is ron

That's about like the Obama campaign office with the Che/Cuba flag. Obama didn't put up that flag, but it's his campaign office.

 

[tmleadr03]

What ended the Depression was high government spending and high government employment paid for by high taxes on the rich. This did not happen earlier because of Republican opposition. Nevertheless, if those who were paid to make and use weapons had been paid instead to build public schools, public recreational facilities, public transportation facilities, public hospitals, and other aspects of the public economy, the effects on the economy would have been better.

So riddle me this, what part of the government intervention caused the turn around from the LARGER stock market crash in 1920?

 

[Byron In Exile]

What ended the Depression was high government spending and high government employment paid for by high taxes on the rich.

That's utter rubbish. FDR's New Deal was a miserable failure, and his policies accomplished nothing but to prolong the Depression.

"We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong... somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises... I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started... and an enormous debt to boot!" -- Treasury Secretary Henry Morganthau, May 1939

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

And I was raised as a Christian. We all know how that turned out.

He's not a Marxist because he hasn't instituted or suggested instituting any Marxist policies. I'm pretty sure reordering the economy was about creating more green jobs. Higher energy prices has nothing to do with Marxism. And I don't see what pain and fairness has to do with anything.

I suppose the government's purchase of GM was his closest thing to government takeover of private corporations. So that makes him about as Marxist as George W. for W's stimulus bill.

Then you're not listening to him with anything other than partisan ears.

Bush was an idiot who was told by his Democrat advisor to panic, and he did and the Congress that said never again would they allow that idiot to panic them into doing something stupid, did. Even worse, they liked it so much that now they just can't stop and we have deficits of a historical nature. Now it's not a matter of raising taxes on everyone, but how much they'll raise taxes on everyone, so let's just hope and pray that tax and spend really is the key to a fantastic economy...

 

[tinylittlegnat]

That's about like the Obama campaign office with the Che/Cuba flag. Obama didn't put up that flag, but it's his campaign office.

was obama in the picture and did it have his signiture under it as if he made the che picture? sorry bad example try again

 

[mark_j]

What ended the Depression was high government spending and high government employment paid for by high taxes on the rich. This did not happen earlier because of Republican opposition.

What opposition? Both houses of Congress were overwhelmingly Democratic.

73rd Congress (1933)

House...72.4% Dem.. 26.4% Rep.. 1.2% Farm Labor
Senate..63% Dem.. 36% Rep.. 1% Farm Labor

74th Congress (1935)

House 322 Dem, 103 Rep.
Senate 69 Dem, 25 Rep.

75th Congress (1937)

House 334 Dem, 88 Rep
Senate 76 Dem. 17 Rep

76th Congress (1939)

House 252 Dem 177 Rep
Senate 69 Dem 23 Rep

Until the 76th Congress the Democrats held a virtually veto proof majority so the above statement in bold is bullshit. Congress could have done anything it wanted and the Republicans would have had been unable to mount any effective opposition if the vote was along party lines. So explain why Congress didn't enact all this great spending?

Nevertheless, if those who were paid to make and use weapons had been paid instead to build public schools, public recreational facilities, public transportation facilities, public hospitals, and other aspects of the public economy, the effects on the economy would have been better.

See above.. Why didn't they if this was such a great idea? They held the clear majority and were veto proof for much of FDR's administration.

The Republicans had no power in Congress. So why would they be blamed? They couldn't have objected to a parking ticket if the Congress had so wanted to fine them that way...

 

[off2bed]

was obama in the picture and did it have his signiture under it as if he made the che picture? sorry bad example try again

Yeah, keep moving the goalposts.

 

[The_Trouvere]

What opposition? Both houses of Congress were overwhelmingly Democratic.

73rd Congress (1933)

House...72.4% Dem.. 26.4% Rep.. 1.2% Farm Labor
Senate..63% Dem.. 36% Rep.. 1% Farm Labor

74th Congress (1935)

House 322 Dem, 103 Rep.
Senate 69 Dem, 25 Rep.

75th Congress (1937)

House 334 Dem, 88 Rep
Senate 76 Dem. 17 Rep

76th Congress (1939)

House 252 Dem 177 Rep
Senate 69 Dem 23 Rep

Until the 76th Congress the Democrats held a virtually veto proof majority so the above statement in bold is bullshit. Congress could have done anything it wanted and the Republicans would have had been unable to mount any effective opposition if the vote was along party lines. So explain why Congress didn't enact all this great spending?





See above.. Why didn't they if this was such a great idea? They held the clear majority and were veto proof for much of FDR's administration.

The Republicans had no power in Congress. So why would they be blamed? They couldn't have objected to a parking ticket if the Congress had so wanted to fine them that way...

The Democrats did not have war fever to back them up. High government employment paid for by high taxes on the rich, ended the Depression.

 

[off2bed]

The Democrats did not have war fever to back them up. High government employment paid for by high taxes on the rich, ended the Depression.

With people believing that shit, no wonder the country is doomed.

 

[Byron In Exile]

High government employment paid for by high taxes on the rich, ended the Depression.

It's too bad there isn't such a thing as an anti-delusion pill.

“In order to raise the large amount of additional revenue required, it is necessary to levy taxes on those in the lower income group, and in doing so the Victory Tax, in my opinion, is fair and equitable and one which does not subject to taxation the barest necessities of life, as each taxpayer is allowed $624 free of taxation.” (Congressional Record-House, Volume 88, October 20, 1942, page 8467. Congressman Doughton, Chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee)

"It places an unfair and dangerous share of the increased tax burden upon the lower-income groups, encroaching upon subsistence standards of living and in effect taxing bread out of the people’s mouths… Studies of consumer income indicate that any tax program, which bears down upon individuals and families receiving incomes of $1,500 or less, encroaches upon subsistence standards of living. The tax dollars collected from taxpayers of these lower-income groups are dollars that would otherwise be spent for food, shelter, and the bare necessities of life. In these income groups are to be found approximately 43 percent of the Nation’s population, but in the current year it is estimated they are receiving only 16 percent of the aggregate consumer income. (Congressional Record-Senate, Volume 88, October 10, 1942. Senator La Follette of Wisconsin)