When does this gay pride stuff become parody?

[Huckleman2000]

And you've done a very good job of pointing, yes you have!

I was going to point out something about the flyboy coming down hard on the bear, but I think that's just a strange coincidence of online personas, and void of deeper meaning.

 

[Liar]

There are 300+million people in this country and if the usual quote of 1.1% of men and 4% of women are predominantly same-sex oriented I call that an average of 2.5% of the total.

Got a source for that? Not that I have been looking it up much (and almost ever source I've seen is either old or politically biased anyway), but I've always heard a bit higher numbers than that.

 

[Samuel667]

You are confusing a newspaper reporter's words with real people, Sammy dear.

Two things;
There is strength in numbers, so it's to our benefit to include as many othered groups as we can find-- and it's pretty fucking easy, too, to find groups that have been treated like shit by the straight majority.

You don't get to define anything. It's not your problem.

(Two-Spirits is a native American term, by the way, of which there are plenty in Toronto.)

Della dear, thanks for the explanation of "2-spirited". You need to lighten up and be able to laugh at yourself from time to time. And I'm not sure what newspaper reporter you're referring to. The quote I used came directly from Pride Toronto's website.

My point wasn't to criticize the agenda of this group, but to laugh at their over-the-top attempt to be as inclusive as possible by including all the different labels in the title. For example, when people from Central and South America advocate immigration reform, they don't go and call themselves the MGHCRNBAP Community for Immigration Reform. (That's Mexicans, Guatemalans, Hondurans, Costa Ricans, Nicaraguans, Brazilians, Argentinians, Peruvians.) They come up with a catch-all term that makes sense like "Latinos" or "Hispanics".

Again, lighten up.

Sam

 

[Samuel667]

Why? Does being inclusive offend you in some way?

It almost sounds like you'd prefer for it to be Lesbian, Gay AGAINST Everyone Else.

Sorry, dude, but like Stella said there are too many other people who have been fucked over and as VM and the others have said there are too many straight people who believe in equality, as well.

Yes, inclusiveness is incredible offensive to me.

 

[Samuel667]

Yeah SB, but the list of all the categories of people who have been fucked over one way or the other, could easily be ten pages long.

And at some point an acronym just becomes weird lengthy string of characters. As a rethorical decive, it loses it's bouyancy after a while.

If it's really inclusiveness that is sought, wouldn't it be wiser to just present an idea, and let anyone who feel included be included?

Personally, I'd like to think of myself as a part of the OTHCP (Opposition To Hetero-Centric Prejudice) community. We have gays, lesbians, bisexuals, transgenders, straight-as-an-arrow folks, identity-seekers and celibate asexuals, among many others, inside this tent.

Exactly, at least someone gets it. I'm not criticizing the agenda, just joking around about the over-the-top attempt at inclusiveness.

Sign me up for the OTHCP, just as long as I don't have to label myself based on my sexual preferences. I'm a man and I enjoy sex with people. Will I fit in?

Sam

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Got a source for that? Not that I have been looking it up much (and almost ever source I've seen is either old or politically biased anyway), but I've always heard a bit higher numbers than that.

Not without doing more 'net-hunting than I've got time for this morning. I, too, have heard higher numbers claimed by some in such groups as Queer Nation but when serious academics do widespread anonymous surveys, the higher numbers don't stand up. This could be due to either some groups trying to make themselves look larger than they are or to academics narrowing their definitions down to a razor's edge or to something I can't think of right now. I'll bet if someone were to do a really good survey of arousal based on KInsey's continuum (and got honest answers) the results would amaze. Anyone got a couple of hundred thou' to grant?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Stella dear, thanks for the explanation of "2-spirited". You need to lighten up and be able to laugh at yourself from time to time. And I'm not sure what newspaper reporter you're referring to. The quote I used came directly from Pride Toronto's website.

My point wasn't to criticize the agenda of this group, but to laugh at their over-the-top attempt to be as inclusive as possible by including all the different labels in the title. For example, when people from Central and South America advocate immigration reform, they don't go and call themselves the MGHCRNBAP Community for Immigration Reform. (That's Mexicans, Guatemalans, Hondurans, Costa Ricans, Nicaraguans, Brazilians, Argentinians, Peruvians.) They come up with a catch-all term that makes sense like "Latinos" or "Hispanics".

Again, lighten up.

Sam

I'll lighten up when life gets better for me and mine. Comments like "where's the Onion when we need it" don't fly too well. We don't need the Onion, we need justice, and we need to be allowed to marry, and we need to not be beaten to death by straights.

I might laugh at myself, but you will not laugh at me. If you want me to laugh along with you-- make sure you make your humor very clear. Most of us are feeling too bruised and battered to make that effort on your behalf.

Liar does not live in a country ruled by homophobes, by the way. Fags in Sweden are much less likely to be attacked than in the US or Canada. There's nothing like a touch of security to raise the tolerance levels.

 

[xssve]

I'm just a hedonist, lemme know when you get it all sorted out.

 

[Liar]

Liar does not live in a country ruled by homophobes, by the way. Fags in Sweden are much less likely to be attacked than in the US or Canada. There's nothing like a touch of security to raise the tolerance levels.

Not going to get into a pissing contest about whose got the bigger claims to woes, cause I don't have statistics, but it's not like it's anywhere close to peachy over here either. Legislation is pretty progressive, and discrimination in businesses and employment is pretty minimal. But institutions are one thing, people another. There's still a steady stream of cases of homophobic assaults. Rural machismo and a culture of binge drinking will see to that.

 

[CharleyH]

This. Someone who was two-spirited was considered holy, as they were able to see things from both sides. They were loved by the gods to be gifted in this way.

It's too bad that this nation was overrun by a more primitive people, or they would still be looked upon as favored.

I wish this were Facebook and then I could just thumbs up - I like! Do you have any more history about two-spirited, Cloudy? Interested.

 

[CharleyH]

As a person who lives there, I concur. It's a fabulous event, but also a reminder that we are more fortunate than many others who are not free to be themselves.

Agreed.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I wish this were Facebook and then I could just thumbs up - I like! Do you have any more history about two-spirited, Cloudy? Interested.

http://www.google.com/search?q=two+spirit

What did we do before google?

 

[CharleyH]

http://www.google.com/search?q=two+spirit

What did we do before google?

LOL thanks, love. I don't prefer Wikipedia, though. Why does wiki always come up first? (PS - don't answer that - I know why) chuckles ... Kisses

 

[Liar]

LOL thanks, love. I don't prefer Wikipedia, though. Why does wiki always come up first? (PS - don't answer that - I know why)

Yep. Because Google is controlled by our Secret Martian Overords.

 

[CharleyH]

Yep. Because Google is controlled by our Secret Martian Overords.

lol

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Not going to get into a pissing contest about whose got the bigger claims to woes, cause I don't have statistics, but it's not like it's anywhere close to peachy over here either. Legislation is pretty progressive, and discrimination in businesses and employment is pretty minimal. But institutions are one thing, people another. There's still a steady stream of cases of homophobic assaults. Rural machismo and a culture of binge drinking will see to that.

Queers are hanged in the Muslim countries, but your typical Scandinavian would rather eat a tub of green shit than utter "Oh My!" at a Muslim.

 

[Samuel667]

I'll lighten up when life gets better for me and mine. Comments like "where's the Onion when we need it" don't fly too well. We don't need the Onion, we need justice, and we need to be allowed to marry, and we need to not be beaten to death by straights.

I might laugh at myself, but you will not laugh at me. If you want me to laugh along with you-- make sure you make your humor very clear. Most of us are feeling too bruised and battered to make that effort on your behalf.

Liar does not live in a country ruled by homophobes, by the way. Fags in Sweden are much less likely to be attacked than in the US or Canada. There's nothing like a touch of security to raise the tolerance levels.

Actually, I will laugh at the situation and the irony of the alphabet soup label they're applying. I wasn't laughing at you.

But you know what? Now I am. You're a parody with your melodrama and going on and on about oppression and such. I get it; life is tough. It's tough for all sorts of people in all sorts of different situations. Most people live on $2 a day. You don't have a monopoly on tough. You have it better than 99.9% of the people who've walked this earth. I share your desire for equality, but just because I make a joke about the behavior of this group in Toronto doesn't mean you have to personally take offense. I couldn't care less whether you laugh. This isn't about you.

Sam

 

[sr71plt]

Actually, I will laugh at the situation and the irony of the alphabet soup label they're applying. I wasn't laughing at you.

But you know what? Now I am. You're a parody with your melodrama and going on and on about oppression and such. I get it; life is tough. It's tough for all sorts of people in all sorts of different situations. Most people live on $2 a day. You don't have a monopoly on tough. You have it better than 99.9% of the people who've walked this earth. I share your desire for equality, but just because I make a joke about the behavior of this group in Toronto doesn't mean you have to personally take offense. I couldn't care less whether you laugh. This isn't about you.

Sam

It is true that some folks here like to wallow in it. They make their choices and they choose to take the "in your face" route, and then they act all wounded when this gets them some backlash. *Shrug*. It's quite likely all part of the performance.

Garish parades and "in your face" exhibitionism and over-the-top, leading-with-the-chin Internet posting behavior do make a point . They just don't do much to broaden what fits in society. Other folks are off quietly getting that done by challenging and reforming the systems where it counts.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I was counting down;

3...
2...
1...

Sammy's going to talk about how humorless I am for not laughing at his joke.

I notice he got the starving children in Africa™ line in there too. That's always important when someone doesn't laugh at your joke!

 

[SumLightCat]

Instead of adding letters to the acronyms, we could just accept that there are basically two groups of people: the sexually liberate*, who can accept themselves and others without fear or whatnot, and the repressed, who feel the need to tell others what they can and cannot do, so they feel less anxious about their own perceived failings.

Then you can have Liberates vs. Repressives

*sort of by analogy with literate.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Instead of adding letters to the acronyms, we could just accept that there are basically two groups of people: the sexually liberate*, who can accept themselves and others without fear or whatnot, and the repressed, who feel the need to tell others what they can and cannot do, so they feel less anxious about their own perceived failings.

Then you can have Liberates vs. Repressives

*sort of by analogy with literate.

There's a lot more to it than just sex. Until about 1970, CA had anti-sodomy laws on its books. They were violated freely by most people and, finally, the legislature got up the nerve to repeal them. Most people don't care if two women have sex together or two men do. However, the majority of Californians voted against granting the people in such couplings, even when they are long-term, loving relationships, the right to say they are married, with all the rights and responsibilities that involves. The majority is shrinking, (yay)
Early in this century, it was over 60%. Last year, it was about 52%. By 2010 or 2012, it will probably no longer be a majority.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Instead of adding letters to the acronyms, we could just accept that there are basically two groups of people: the sexually liberate*, who can accept themselves and others without fear or whatnot, and the repressed, who feel the need to tell others what they can and cannot do, so they feel less anxious about their own perceived failings.

Then you can have Liberates vs. Repressives

*sort of by analogy with literate.

There's a lot more to it than just sex. Until about 1970, CA had anti-sodomy laws on its books. They were violated freely by most people and, finally, the legislature got up the nerve to repeal them. Most people don't care if two women have sex together or two men do. However, the majority of Californians voted against granting the people in such couplings, even when they are long-term, loving relationships, the right to say they are married, with all the rights and responsibilities that involves. The majority is shrinking, (yay)
Early in this century, it was over 60%. Last year, it was about 52%. By 2010 or 2012, it will probably no longer be a majority.

Box is right SumLightCat. Homophobia has much less to do with sexuality than it does with basic human rights. It's all about religious fundies fear of losing control and old MF'er fear of change to the status quo. As stated before these people need to denigrate/repress SOMEBODY. First it was blacks, then women and now the queer folk. Mebe that's why the majority of LGBT's want to be so inclusive of others and why we are so disappointed in str8 women and people of color who are not trying to help change things.

I'd also like to interject here that religiosity isn't the same as being a "fundie". There are some deeply and proudly religious people on this site that "don't judge" and for that I thank them. They might disagree with my "choice" of sexual orientation (ahem...), but they respect me as a human being, a mother and as Amy's loving spouse. To be treated as equal human beings is all we've ever asked.

 

[Samuel667]

Della must have misread what I wrote. I said: "I couldn't care less whether you laugh." Whether she laughs or not doesn't bother me and it doesn't prove or disprove her humorlessness. There are other things though...

4...
3...
2...
1...

I can count down too, more numbers, in fact.

 

[Guest]

Della must have misread what I wrote. I said: "I couldn't care less whether you laugh." Whether she laughs or not doesn't bother me and it doesn't prove or disprove her humorlessness. There are other things though...

4...
3...
2...
1...

I can count down too, more numbers, in fact.

It seems you came here spoiling for a fight with the sarcastic tone of your first post. You began by ridiculing something you didn't understand, and people you don't know. You earned discussion, heard many opposing points of view, and met several people who took genuine offense with your post. Wasn't that your plan?

Seems some people aren't happy no matter what happens.

Well, congratulations on the counting thing, anyway.

 

[Samuel667]

It seems you came here spoiling for a fight with the sarcastic tone of your first post. You began by ridiculing something you didn't understand, and people you don't know. You earned discussion, heard many opposing points of view, and met several people who took genuine offense with your post. Wasn't that your plan?

Seems some people aren't happy no matter what happens.

Well, congratulations on the counting thing, anyway.

Sarah - I think you've misinterpreted a few things. First, I didn't come here looking for a fight. I came here looking to make a joke. To humor people. Yes, I was sarcastic. Sarcasm is often used in humor.

Second, I do understand the motives behind the Toronto organization. That's what I'm laughing at.

Third, no, it wasn't my plan to offend people. But hey, perhaps I should have remembered that some people have very thin skins.

Fourth, it's Stella who is looking for a fight or argument. Not me. I've seen her comments on other threads on this website. She comes across as someone who is looking to fight or argue with anyone she views as critical of her worldview, whether or not they truly are or not.

Those are my thoughts...

Sam