Yay! Britian has Nads!

[Safe_Bet]

You always hear how countries talk about how they "stand up for what they believe" and "how they protect the rights of the oppressed". It usually is just that - talk. Britain is actually doing it by telling bigoted, hate mongers like that asshat Michael Savage, Stephen Donald Black, a white supremacist, and anti-gay preacher Fred Phelps to sit their asses down, shut the fuck up and stay the hell out of our country. Kudos, Brits!

The article that prompted this rant.

 

[Jagged]

Yes a great victory for free speech....

 

[Julie_in_the_north]

It's actually been quite controversial here - especially in the case of Michael Savage. He had no particular plans to visit the country and, if he had, there was nothing to suggest he would have intended to incite crime. His views might be unsavoury to most tastes - but he's entitled to express them. That's as distinct from something who actively seeks to encourage crime or violence. The general impression given is an act of rather pompous, right-on, posturing.

 

[Jagged]

Exactly....he is on the same list with known terrorists. He might talk extreme, but it is only words. If the government can cite examples to support their move by all means keep him out of the country.

 

[Safe_Bet]

It's actually been quite controversial here - especially in the case of Michael Savage. He had no particular plans to visit the country and, if he had, there was nothing to suggest he would have intended to incite crime. His views might be unsavoury to most tastes - but he's entitled to express them. That's as distinct from something who actively seeks to encourage crime or violence. The general impression given is an act of rather pompous, right-on, posturing.

Exactly....he is on the same list with known terrorists. He might talk extreme, but it is only words. If the government can cite examples to support their move by all means keep him out of the country.

Sorry, but Savage DOES incite violence against homosexuals. By making statements such as calling one of his callers a "sodomite" and said he should "get AIDS and die" and that "children's minds are being raped by the homosexual mafia." That is hate speech, plan and simple.

Hate speech incites violence or wishes ill/death upon others because of their race, creed, color, origins and/or orientation. People who consistently spew hate speech are verbal terrorists and belong on that list, IMO

 

[rayagirl_94]

Fred Phelps is such an embarrassment to our state (Kansas). He has even tried to protest and spew his ignorant, racist, bigoted, homophobic ass at funerals here, including at a soldier's funeral who died in Iraq! I applaud this move from the UK.

 

[Harrowborg]

With Phelps there was a fairly revealing program about him and the baptist church on the BBC not that long ago which covered his views about homosexuality and so forth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Most_Hated_Family_in_America

As much as I love the concept of free speech and feel passionately about the soldiers who had died to defend this concept, there does seem to be certain individuals who use this concept to spew hatred against others. the Phelps may believe in what they say and good on them, and if it was confined to their community then no harm no foul, but when they were actively telling the families of serving soldiers there loved ones were going to hell because the US government advocated civil partnerships, thats abusing the concept of free speech that people have fought and died for.

 

[john-the-author]

With Phelps there was a fairly revealing program about him and the baptist church on the BBC not that long ago which covered his views about homosexuality and so forth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Most_Hated_Family_in_America

As much as I love the concept of free speech and feel passionately about the soldiers who had died to defend this concept, there does seem to be certain individuals who use this concept to spew hatred against others. the Phelps may believe in what they say and good on them, and if it was confined to their community then no harm no foul, but when they were actively telling the families of serving soldiers there loved ones were going to hell because the US government advocated civil partnerships, thats abusing the concept of free speech that people have fought and died for.

There was a quote I encountered some years ago, spuriously attributed to Oliver Wendell Holmes: "The problem with freedom of speech is that you have to to put up with crap." But yeah, Fred Phelps does seem to be pushing the limits reeeeeally hard.

 

[John Doe]

Sorry, but Savage DOES incite violence against homosexuals. By making statements such as calling one of his callers a "sodomite" and said he should "get AIDS and die" and that "children's minds are being raped by the homosexual mafia." That is hate speech, plan and simple.

Hate speech incites violence or wishes ill/death upon others because of their race, creed, color, origins and/or orientation. People who consistently spew hate speech are verbal terrorists and belong on that list, IMO

Verbal terrorism? What's next, thought terrorism?

Oh and by the way, you have no idea what incitement really is.

 

[Netzach]

Verbal terrorism? What's next, thought terrorism?

At what point do you cross into fire in a crowded theater however?

In Rwanda, it's worth noting the role of the radio in the genocidal furor. When people are soaking in rhetoric that compares human beings to cockroaches and diseases for hours on end, you're not just talking about the right to stand on a soapbox.

I tend to err very much on the side of freedom of speech, but hate agitation isn't supportable.

 

[John Doe]

At what point do you cross into fire in a crowded theater however?

The point at which people get trampled to death. What does that have to do with the topic?

In Rwanda, it's worth noting the role of the radio in the genocidal furor. When people are soaking in rhetoric that compares human beings to cockroaches and diseases for hours on end, you're not just talking about the right to stand on a soapbox.

I tend to err very much on the side of freedom of speech, but hate agitation isn't supportable.

"Hate agitation"? Is that another euphemism for thought crime?

It's not erring on the side of free speech to think people shouldn't be allowed to say things you don't like. Quite the opposite actually.

 

[Netzach]

The point at which people get trampled to death.

That's my point.

"Hate agitation"? Is that another euphemism for thought crime?

Oh, bullshit. No one's keeping you from writing what you want in your diary or masturbating to Triumph of the Will or whatever you want.

It's not erring on the side of free speech to think people shouldn't be allowed to say things you don't like. Quite the opposite actually.

Say anything you want. Doesn't mean every dick on earth is entitled to a *platform* to say it. Doesn't mean it has to be legitimized and paid for with advertising.

Michael Savage belongs on 43rd street with a megaphone and a tin foil hat.

 

[John Doe]

That's my point.

When people are trampled to death because someone shouts "QUEER!" in a crowded theatre then your comparison will make sense.

By the way, you didn't answer the question.

Oh, bullshit. No one's keeping you from writing what you want in your diary or masturbating to Triumph of the Will or whatever you want.

I didn't say they were.

Say anything you want. Doesn't mean every dick on earth is entitled to a *platform* to say it. Doesn't mean it has to be legitimized and paid for with advertising.

Michael Savage belongs on 43rd street with a megaphone and a tin foil hat.

You're as free to ignore him as he is to say what he wants.

 

[butters]

l would never dream of going to listen to any one of their speeches. i'm glad they're not going to be getting into the country. there are others here i'd happily see booted out.

the politics of it all, might i suggest, could be something to do with the financial burden these dorks place on our citiy fundings when they come over and give their rants. the millions it costs to police their rallies, the pulling away of manpower from more important or even downright everyday life here in the UK... it simply costs too much, and sometimes in more than the currency of hard cash.