Issues of ignorance: sex reassignment and transgender

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Prolly beats them with wire hangers, too.

 

[CharleyH]

I'm quite willing to let Chaz Bono have the requested privacy. This thread makes obvious, though, that Chaz Bono isn't going to get that relief from others--they are going to use Chaz to ride their own hobby horses.

Sadly, that's the way of public life wanted or not. Most of us do not have to issue a press release about our fetishes or our sexuality, but he does, because if he didn't the fall out would be quite worse. This way, we can respect his privacy and still make of this press release a starting point for the discussion of the greater issues. It's a sad situation, but at the same time it is a call to arms. It makes us think and consider what it is to be human.

 

[Stella_Omega]

safe-bet drags her kids to partisan parades and rallies, puts them on display, makes decisions for them on what they can believe? Wow.

Every parent makes that decision for their children. It's a crucial part of parenting.

Parents raise their children in their religion. They send their kids to charter schools for one reason or another. They inculcate liberal values, or conservative values, or white supremacist values, or they train their daughters to be subservient, or to fight for their rights. They spoil their kids, or not.

Every thing a parent does reinforces the ethos of that family.

 

[sr71plt]

Every parent makes that decision for their children. It's a crucial part of parenting.

No, Stella, every parent does not choose to drag their children to rallies and parades and force them to be on display in support of the parent's hobby horses.

Sorry, but that's irresponsible and just a little sick--it certainly is extremist no matter what the cause.

When I think of that being done by those crazies harrassing funerals . . .

 

[CharleyH]

What CharleyH said is right on the money. If a soldier bravely faces overwhelming odds courageously, we honor and respect him. If a mother or father puts themselves in the line of fire to protect their children, we acknowledge their sacrifice. We respect the Rosa Parks of the world for being willing to face the hate and acrimony she knew she would face for saying "No, I won't sit in the back of the bus any longer".

BECAUSE he is the offspring of famous people Chaz Bono KNOWS he will need to be courageous, make public sacrifices and face a great deal of hate. But by doing so, he will become a role model for others, many of which resort to suicide as a solution.

We give the Congressional Medal of Honor to a soldier who performs acts of valor by saving the lives of his fellows. Chaz Bono's actions and public acknowledgment may save the lives of numerous people who might otherwise kill themselves because of having been born into the wrong body.

A significant contribution??? Fucking damn right!




Very well said.

We march in the San Diego Gay Pride Parade every year. This year, we will march hand in hand with our twin daughters, as we have for the last couple of years. When I hear one of our 8-yr-olds ask "Mommy, why do people hate you just because you two love each other? Don't they realize how stupid that is?" I know why WE march...

Cudos! March and march proudly!

 

[sr71plt]

Right, there are extremist fanatics on almost any side of the issue.

In keeping with the topic of the thread, Chaz Bono has asked for privacy and will get it from me. I won't use Chaz Bono or anyone else who hasn't volunteered for it to campaign for my own causes.

 

[Stella_Omega]

No, Stella, every parent does not choose to drag their children to rallies and parades and force them to be on display in support of the parent's hobby horses.

Sorry, but that's irresponsible and just a little sick--it certainly is extremist no matter what the cause.

When I think of that being done by those crazies harrassing funerals . . .

You'll just have to fume in impotent rage, then.

 

[sr71plt]

You'll just have to fume in impotent rage, then.

Well, no, actually--because (A) I'm not fuming, and (B) I'm pretty sure you are the one living in an unreal world.

 

[CharleyH]

Right, there are extremist fanatics on almost any side of the issue.

In keeping with the topic of the thread, Chaz Bono has asked for privacy and will get it from me. I won't use Chaz Bono or anyone else who hasn't volunteered for it to campaign for my own causes.

Yes, let's let Chaz go. The issues are greater.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

No, Stella, every parent does not choose to drag their children to rallies and parades and force them to be on display in support of the parent's hobby horses.

Sorry, but that's irresponsible and just a little sick--it certainly is extremist no matter what the cause.

When I think of that being done by those crazies harrassing funerals . . .

I've been dragged by my parents to my Christening when I was only months old, to kindergarten when I was 4, to school when I was 6. I've been forced to eat soup every night, and to go to bed!

Sorry, but if you're going to call my parents irresponsible and just a little sick, I may be forced to think you're a jackass.

 

[Liar]

Others may have a different answer, but let me tell you mine. Every minute, every hour, every day of every year that you live your life, your heterosexuality is celebrated. From the time we are all born, our assumed heterosexual identity is celebrated. Straight individuals are never ridiculed for being straight and heterosexuality is rarely (if ever) the butt of any comedic joke. Heterosexuals are not thrown out of the house for being heterosexual, shunned by friends and family, verbally demeaned... beat up for kissing or holding the hand of their lovers in public and they are not denied basic human rights (which, in this context, I acknowledge Article 1 of the the UN Universal declaration of human rights because Literotica is an International forum) that stipulates, "All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights."

I was shunned, ridiculed and frozen out by large parts of the gay circles I used to belong to, when I discovered I also like women, and got a girlfriend.

Yeah I know, it doesn't count. Apparently. It's not the same as the endemic discrimization many queers face from the whole of society, but it's the same Us v Them mentality at the heart of it. Their entire value assessment of me, and themselves, clinging to them being card-carrying queers, and me not being alternative enough.

Heterosexuality is not celebrated. It's taken for granted and not reflected upon. Straight people don't identify themselves as being straight. They identify themselves as jazz musicians, Steelers fans, mothers, cheese lovers, amateur fly fishers, librarians, day-dreamers, geeks, cheese lovers (Yeah, I said cheese lovers twice. I like cheese.) and fitness fanatics. There's no Straight Pride Parade, because it's not a matter of pride or shame for straight people. it just is. THAT's what I want for all sexual orientations... to be irrelevant to anything other than who you fuck and couple with.

It's not going to happen if everything in LGBT culture is being hinged on sexuality. (And how could it be anything else?) It's self cementing. We're hated bacause we're different because we're hated. That's why I got fed the hell up with the whole idea of being "part of the LGBT community", and opted out.

Do as you wish, people. Whatever makes you feel good. But if I hear "why are you not marching? you should be proud of who you are" one more time, I'm gonna rip somebody's spleen out.

Btw, I'm out of the loop. Who added the "I" and what does it stand for?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Well, no, actually--because (A) I'm not fuming, and (B) I'm pretty sure you are the one living in an unreal world.

But you feel the need to tell us all about it, why is that?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I was shunned, ridiculed and frozen out by large parts of the gay circles I used to belong to, when I discovered I also like women, and got a girlfriend.

Yeah I know, it doesn't count. Apparently. It's not the same as the endemic discrimization many queers face from the whole of society, but it's the same Us v Them mentality at the heart of it. Their entire value assessment of me, and themselves, clinging to them being card-carrying queers, and me not being alternative enough.

Heterosexuality is not celebrated. It's taken for granted and not reflected upon. Straight people don't identify themselves as being straight. They identify themselves as jazz musicians, Steelers fans, mothers, cheese lovers, amateur fly fishers, librarians, day-dreamers, geeks, cheese lovers (Yeah, I said cheese lovers twice. I like cheese.) and fitness fanatics. There's no Straight Pride Parade, because it's not a matter of pride or shame for straight people. it just is. THAT's what I want for all sexual orientations... to be irrelevant to anything other than who you fuck and couple with.

It's not going to happen if everything in GLBT culture is being hinged on sexuality. It's self cementing. We're hated bacause we're different because we're hated. That's why I got fed the hell up with the whole idea of being "part of the LGBT community", and opted out.

Btw, I'm out of the loop. Who added the "I" and what does it stand for?

AMEN BROTHER LIAR, you may possibly be civilized after all.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Btw, I'm out of the loop. Who added the "I" and what does it stand for?

Intersex. As in the case in point.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I was shunned, ridiculed and frozen out by large parts of the gay circles I used to belong to, when I discovered I also like women, and got a girlfriend.

Yeah I know, it doesn't count. Apparently. It's not the same as the endemic discrimization many queers face from the whole of society, but it's the same Us v Them mentality at the heart of it. Their entire value assessment of me, and themselves, clinging to them being card-carrying queers, and me not being alternative enough.

Yeah, bisexuals are often viewed with suspicion among gays and lesbians. I am sure you can understand the resentment, (even though it is mistaken) at the idea that someone could just let go of their samesex preferences and slip into the mainstream.

Heterosexuality is not celebrated. It's taken for granted and not reflected upon. Straight people don't identify themselves as being straight. They identify themselves as jazz musicians, Steelers fans, mothers, cheese lovers, amateur fly fishers, librarians, day-dreamers, geeks, cheese lovers (Yeah, I said cheese lovers twice. I like cheese.) and fitness fanatics. There's no Straight Pride Parade, because it's not a matter of pride or shame for straight people. it just is. THAT's what I want for all sexual orientations... to be irrelevant to anything other than who you fuck and couple with.

Right now, if someone comes out as gay, that takes precident against everything else they are in the mainstream community. The day that being gay is not a matter of hatred and scorn, that day it can be "just is" we will be able to let go of our need to bolster ourselves.

It's not going to happen if everything in GLBT culture is being hinged on sexuality. It's self cementing. We're hated bacause we're different because we're hated. That's why I got fed the hell up with the whole idea of being "part of the LGBT community", and opted out.

Lucky you!

Btw, I'm out of the loop. Who added the "I" and what does it stand for?

Intersexed perhaps-- these people are usually treated in the way transsexuals are.

 

[CharleyH]

Intersex. As in the case in point.

An aside: Have I told you I love you, today? I DO!

 

[Liar]

Intersex. As in the case in point.

I thought Chaz was going all male. Wouldn't that be transgendered?

I need a dictionary.

 

[CharleyH]

I was shunned, ridiculed and frozen out by large parts of the gay circles I used to belong to, when I discovered I also like women, and got a girlfriend.

Yeah I know, it doesn't count.

It does count, Liar.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I thought Chaz was going all male. Wouldn't that be transgendered?

Yes, but until then... It's a process.

 

[Liar]

Right now, if someone comes out as gay, that takes precident against everything else they are in the mainstream community. The day that being gay is not a matter of hatred and scorn, that day it can be "just is" we will be able to let go of our need to bolster ourselves.

Look, I get the whole "the world is hostile, so we stick together" mentality. And by all means, nobody should ever have to hide this part of themselves. I don't. But I treat it as the parenthesis it is, a footnote in the bigger picture of me. You'd be surprised how little precident it can take if you do your part to de-dramatize it.

"So, you're into guys, huh?"

"Some guys. Not you, fatso."

Lucky you!

Yeah lucky me. I lost a whole bunch of pepole I considered my friends, because I had to go cld turkey on a community and lifestyle that chafed against every part of me. Awesome.

 

[Liar]

Yes, but until then... It's a process.

Ah. I thought the T was more general. As in those who've switched already, those who are just now doing it , and those who want to.

 

[sr71plt]

But you feel the need to tell us all about it, why is that?

Coming from you, that's the best joke on the forum for the day, Stella.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Ah. I thought the T was more general. As in those who've switched already, those who are just now doing it , and those who want to.

It probably was, but I guess there's always people who don't feel included enough.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Heterosexuality is not celebrated. It's taken for granted and not reflected upon. Straight people don't identify themselves as being straight. They identify themselves as jazz musicians, Steelers fans, mothers, cheese lovers, amateur fly fishers, librarians, day-dreamers, geeks, cheese lovers (Yeah, I said cheese lovers twice. I like cheese.) and fitness fanatics. There's no Straight Pride Parade, because it's not a matter of pride or shame for straight people. it just is. THAT's what I want for all sexual orientations... to be irrelevant to anything other than who you fuck and couple with.

Liar has an excellent point. Heterosexuals don't consider their sexuality the entirety of their existence. However, I must also admit that I understand the GLBTI(and any et cetera's needed )'s community needs for a GAY Pride parade, at least until the day comes that everyone, upon hearing that another person is gay, responds, "And your point is . . . ?"

And it will come. When is the last time you heard anyone use the terms "Black is Beautiful" or "Black Pride"? Change happens no matter how much some resist it.

 

[sr71plt]

I've been dragged by my parents to my Christening when I was only months old, to kindergarten when I was 4, to school when I was 6. I've been forced to eat soup every night, and to go to bed!

Sorry, but if you're going to call my parents irresponsible and just a little sick, I may be forced to think you're a jackass.

Oh, did you have TV cameras and police cordons and a sense of danger in the air at your Christening? If at 4 or 6, your parents forced fanatical Christian ideas down your throat and took you out to rallies, and put you on stage to wave your little Jesus pom poms, then yes I think they were being abusive. If by 12, they weren't letting you opt out of church attendance, then, yes, they were being overbearing (and in most of the these cases, the children do reject what they were forced to do, don't they)?

School is another, legal, matter. Don't play dumb on that one.

And of course you think I'm a jackass. That's how fanatics set up their world views.