Where are all the women?

[graceanne]

Motherhood as in sling carrying cloth diapering staying at home even if it means dumpstering your organics, not-vaccinating (do not ever ever ever tell that to someone taking immunosuppressants, I wanted to kill her on the spot) and whatever else is the behavior du jour.

Me and this type of mom don't get along, anyway.

A) I vaccinated. (as you know, i'm also on immunosuppressants.)
B) I only breast fed for a max of six weeks (oldest child. Middle was 4 weeks, then I dried up, and I was only allowed to nurse a week for my son before I had to go back on my meds.)
C) I used disposable diapers. I'm chronically ill and DO NOT have the energy for cloth diapers.

The parties in question were craft nights at the one moneyed girl's house. She's a young lesbian who'd called up a friend and ordered herself a designer multiriacial baby because you know, there's no multiracial kids out there who need parents. Don't get me started.

The feminist avant garde which was busy shitting on mothering in the 80's is now discovering motherhood like it never existed before and beating everyone else over the head with it hard.

Oh and you are the biggest asshole on earth if you think that breastfeeding discreetly in public versus pointing your tits in everyone's face is just good manners.

It's so irritating. You can't do in between. Either you're baring it for everyone, or you're stuck in a back room breast feeding.

I was always stuck in the back room feeding, because otherwise K would spin around me fussing and annoying me (and the baby) and then I'd never get them latched. But even if I was discreet he'd keep tugging at the god damn blanket to make sure it wasn't showing anything, and standing there glaring at people and just make a royal pain in the ass of himself.

Except for this wedding we went to with all these hippy's. Two women were breast feeding, so he left me alone.

 

[intothewoods]

Holy shit. Motherhood as opportunity to flaunt high style social values du jour? That's just nothing short of terrifying.

Welcome to my world! *cue dramatic scary music*

Kidding...sort of.

I work from home, never let anyone tell you that's so much less work. I mean it is more kid compatible, it's great that way.

Furthermore, the only mothers, and SAHM'S I look down on are ones who can't talk about anything else or connect with anyone who doesn't have kids or look down on people who don't. You definitely have things to say relating to the outer world, peppered with reasonable amounts of cute kid stories.

Yes, I couldn't articulate this last night. Thank you. I've been told by SAHMs, well, I would never put a preverbal child in daycare. Well, how fucking nice for you. Sorry, douche, but it's not that hard to tell if a baby is doing well with a provider. You don't need the fucking baby whisperer.

I also know SAHMs who seem way more into the mommy social scene than being a mother. And the narcissistic mother thing is so apt. My friends and I talk about it all the time. Moms who say, well, I'm a mother, not the maid! My husband should clean up after himself. I'm busy mothering! Give me a fucking break. What - maids are lepers and you're the Queen of England?? I think that attitude is ridiculous. And I have also come across a lot of moms who are insanely competitive and annoying as part of the mom's group, PTA or vis-a-vis their kids. If you have that competitive drive that needs a fix, get a job! Run a marathon! Do something else instead of driving me insane. I just want to have a glass of wine while my kid plays with your kid and we hang out. That's it.

Motherhood as in sling carrying cloth diapering staying at home even if it means dumpstering your organics, not-vaccinating (do not ever ever ever tell that to someone taking immunosuppressants, I wanted to kill her on the spot) and whatever else is the behavior du jour.

The parties in question were craft nights at the one moneyed girl's house. She's a young lesbian who'd called up a friend and ordered herself a designer multiriacial baby because you know, there's no multiracial kids out there who need parents. Don't get me started.

The feminist avant garde which was busy shitting on mothering in the 80's is now discovering motherhood like it never existed before and beating everyone else over the head with it hard.

Oh and you are the biggest asshole on earth if you think that breastfeeding discreetly in public versus pointing your tits in everyone's face is just good manners.

There are jerks of every persuasion. I have to say though that I find hooter hiders to be weird. I mean, if it makes you feel comfortable, rock out with your ... breasts not out, but the big neato pattern fabric baby and boob cover looks like an operation is going on under there. I don't see the big deal with breastfeeding in public. I did it all the time and never got so much as a look from anyone. But frankly it's another one of those hotbed "mommy issues" that I'm all talked out on. I don't care about home births v. hospital births, breastfeeding, vaccines and autism (Jenny McCarthy can bite me), sleep training, cosleeping or homemade baby food. There's too much information out there already, certainly enough for people to make educated choices, so can we talk about something else?

 

[CutieMouse]

Motherhood as in sling carrying cloth diapering staying at home even if it means dumpstering your organics, not-vaccinating (do not ever ever ever tell that to someone taking immunosuppressants, I wanted to kill her on the spot) and whatever else is the behavior du jour.

The parties in question were craft nights at the one moneyed girl's house. She's a young lesbian who'd called up a friend and ordered herself a designer multiriacial baby because you know, there's no multiracial kids out there who need parents. Don't get me started.

The feminist avant garde which was busy shitting on mothering in the 80's is now discovering motherhood like it never existed before and beating everyone else over the head with it hard.

Oh and you are the biggest asshole on earth if you think that breastfeeding discreetly in public versus pointing your tits in everyone's face is just good manners.

I have to run to work, but this made me grin.

Signed,

Former 24/7 homebirthing, homeschooling, breastfeeding (7 years total for all 5 kids), slow vaccinating (one shot at a time/more spread out schedule), cloth diapering, co-sleeping, attachment parenting, baby/toddler in a sling for pretty much 10 years, birkie wearing hippie mama... who still managed to upset/insult/not fit in, in those circles, because she wasn't hard core enough.

 

[graceanne]

I work from home, never let anyone tell you that's so much less work. I mean it is more kid compatible, it's great that way.

I agree. With people who think I sit at home watching soap operas (I'd rather be shot) and eating chocolate bon bon's, I just roll my eyes. It's annoying, but I'm secure enough in myself that I don't care what they think about me or mine. It just annoys me, is all.

Furthermore, the only mothers, and SAHM'S I look down on are ones who can't talk about anything else or connect with anyone who doesn't have kids or look down on people who don't. You definitely have things to say relating to the outer world, peppered with reasonable amounts of cute kid stories.

We've talked, you know I have more to talk about than them. I even have more to talk about than cookies (I know - shocking). I have plenty of friends who're kidless, although I rarely see them in r/l, mostly online. Quite often people who choose to be kidless don't want to be around kids, and mine go with me just about everywhere.

I'm talking about people largely unmoored and defensive about their choice to have babies to the point where if you don't you're just not cool enough. Or it's assumed you think they're assholes because they chose to have babies, not because they're assholes to you and everyone not like them.

That's true of lots of people, in lots of different life styles. There's always people who are comfortable enough in their choice that they don't care if you do what they're doing and they don't care if their friends do what they're doing.

Then there's the ones who aren't comfortable with it and have to beat everyone over the head with their choice. Like the people who have to tell everyone around them (whether they wanted to know or not) about their sex lives. Or the ones who (like several of my cousins) have to convert EVERYONE or they can't be friends with them. Or the feminist who insists on making sure you know she's a feminist (which is your first warning), and then insists on telling you how you should be parenting, having sex, treating your husband, and living your life. Hello? Do I know you? Why do you think I give a damn about you or your advice?

In my experience the kind of feminist that's not annoying to be around doesn't carry her feminism on her shoulder. You might not find out that they're feminists until you've known them awhile, etc.

I'd say probably the same is true with moms. If you meet someone and within seconds know they're mom's and that they love being mom's and think everyone should be mom's and do you have kids? then RUN!

 

[intothewoods]

Me and this type of mom don't get along, anyway.

A) I vaccinated. (as you know, i'm also on immunosuppressants.)
B) I only breast fed for a max of six weeks (oldest child. Middle was 4 weeks, then I dried up, and I was only allowed to nurse a week for my son before I had to go back on my meds.)
C) I used disposable diapers. I'm chronically ill and DO NOT have the energy for cloth diapers.



It's so irritating. You can't do in between. Either you're baring it for everyone, or you're stuck in a back room breast feeding.

I was always stuck in the back room feeding, because otherwise K would spin around me fussing and annoying me (and the baby) and then I'd never get them latched. But even if I was discreet he'd keep tugging at the god damn blanket to make sure it wasn't showing anything, and standing there glaring at people and just make a royal pain in the ass of himself.

Except for this wedding we went to with all these hippy's. Two women were breast feeding, so he left me alone.

Sorry, now I'm only talking about mommy issues but...

You can't do in between on anything! There are so many extremists. I know so many moms who breastfed and supplemented and then beat themselves up every freaking day about "not breastfeeding." I kept saying, honey, you ARE breastfeeding! Yay! Move on!

 

[graceanne]

Sorry, now I'm only talking about mommy issues but...

You can't do in between on anything! There are so many extremists. I know so many moms who breastfed and supplemented and then beat themselves up every freaking day about "not breastfeeding." I kept saying, honey, you ARE breastfeeding! Yay! Move on!

I do things how it works for me. I don't care how other people are doing it, as long as they aren't abusing. But, honestly, the people who have to do everything PERFECTLY always look exhausted to me. I worry about them, they hold themselves to an impossible standard and are going to make themselves sick.

For instance, my sister in law. She homeschooled and and and. When her twins were in first grade she developed such a bad headache she was hospitalized for a week, because they thought she had an annurism. When they couldn't make it go away, she went ahead and put the kids in school - after a week or so her headache went away? Coincidence? Or, not!

I try to maintain things in a way that is maintainable. I have a list of priorities (literally) and for everything we do I hold it to that list. If it's not in about the top five, we just don't worry about it.

 

[Netzach]

I have to run to work, but this made me grin.

Signed,

Former 24/7 homebirthing, homeschooling, breastfeeding (7 years total for all 5 kids), slow vaccinating (one shot at a time/more spread out schedule), cloth diapering, co-sleeping, attachment parenting, baby/toddler in a sling for pretty much 10 years, birkie wearing hippie mama... who still managed to upset/insult/not fit in, in those circles, because she wasn't hard core enough.

Hahaha, totally. Because you're never good enough. Never. It's like insane zero-sum high school girl clique game.

Any one of those things isn't a BAD thing per se. I believe in the tit, I don't even think you should have to create a cloth tent for it, but there's a discreet way to do it and a DO YOU HAVE A FUCKING PROBLEM I HOPE YOU DO SO I CAN TWITTER ABOUT YOUR STORE/RESTAURANT/YOU way.

 

[satindesire]

I'm hoping to breastfeed. My mom couldn't breastfeed me because her milk dried up too quickly, and I had a LOT of childhood health problems that could have been either avoided alltogether or lessened in severity because of it. Grr.

I'm hoping that Mister's superman immune system full of whatever weird ultra-healthy crap he's got will be passed onto her and she won't have to deal with what I did, and hopefully breastfeeding will work too.

 

[graceanne]

I'm hoping to breastfeed. My mom couldn't breastfeed me because her milk dried up too quickly, and I had a LOT of childhood health problems that could have been either avoided alltogether or lessened in severity because of it. Grr.

I'm hoping that Mister's superman immune system full of whatever weird ultra-healthy crap he's got will be passed onto her and she won't have to deal with what I did, and hopefully breastfeeding will work too.

If you start getting low, drink a little beer. It'll improve your milk flow.

And use your la lache league - those women know what they're doing.

 

[Netzach]

I'm hoping to breastfeed. My mom couldn't breastfeed me because her milk dried up too quickly, and I had a LOT of childhood health problems that could have been either avoided alltogether or lessened in severity because of it. Grr.

I'm hoping that Mister's superman immune system full of whatever weird ultra-healthy crap he's got will be passed onto her and she won't have to deal with what I did, and hopefully breastfeeding will work too.

I was breastfed and I was a giant respiratory infection. I say this simply so that if it doesn't work out, you should not feel guilty or bad. My aunt just sent hers off to college and I think she's still not over it not working.

 

[satindesire]

If you start getting low, drink a little beer. It'll improve your milk flow.

And use your la lache league - those women know what they're doing.

I'm sorry, but I can't stand the taste of alcoholic beverages. Do you have anything else I could drink/eat that might help? Because beer is just....I'm sorry, it's just out of the question totally. Bleg.

I was breastfed and I was a giant respiratory infection. I say this simply so that if it doesn't work out, you should not feel guilty or bad. My aunt just sent hers off to college and I think she's still not over it not working.

You know, I appreciate this. I'm not saying I will become a Super-Mom that has to do everything perfect, but I tend to overdo crap that I find important.

 

[Netzach]

I'm sorry, but I can't stand the taste of alcoholic beverages. Do you have anything else I could drink/eat that might help? Because beer is just....I'm sorry, it's just out of the question totally. Bleg.

Get in touch with La Leche, for reals, they will have a list of 10000 things.
Fenugreek tea, I've heard? Hippie moms correct if I'm wrong.

 

[00Syd]

Beer helps milk flow? Really?

Well, that's something else I can check off as an upside to giving birth.

 

[graceanne]

I'm sorry, but I can't stand the taste of alcoholic beverages. Do you have anything else I could drink/eat that might help? Because beer is just....I'm sorry, it's just out of the question totally. Bleg.

Me either. I ran across that bit of advice, because I was trying to make my milk fattier. I never run out, so the kids never made it to that fatty milk at the end that I hear about. *sigh*

Honestly, I'd contact the la leche league. Also, check out www.pregnancy.org, the women that run that sight are experienced breast feeders. And they're very nice, and kink friendly, I know them all. But it doesn't hurt to be prepared for the possibility of running dry before it starts to happen.

And, as Netzach said - don't stress yourself. The child I breast fed the longest is the sickest of my children, and the one I only breast fed for a week is never sick. *shrugs*

 

[callinectes]

Yes, Fenugreek will help with the milk supply. It can also make you smell like maple syrup.

Ahh, I am now reminded of the nasty SAHM/WOHM debates back when I was pregnant. My favorite line was always that since I was woking I was handing my child over to someone else to raise.

 

[satindesire]

OMG thank you all so much for all the links and advice! I REALLY appreciate it!

*scampers off to go read*

 

[graceanne]

Beer helps milk flow? Really?

Well, that's something else I can check off as an upside to giving birth.

So I hear. I never tried it, because I hate beer. *shrugs* Besides, milk flow wasn't the issue. I produce enough milk to feed several children. I only nursed off one breast (the other nipple is inverted and a royal pain in the ass to feed off of), and I never ran out. Ever. I think in a past life I must have been a wet nurse.

I now know that the reason my older girl had so many trouble nursing is I have what they call an 'overactive let down'. In other words I was drowning her. It was a miserable experience. My middle girl did a bit better, but I got sick early on and dried up. My son was an AWESOME nurser. He latched without help, and did everything like the books say, but I had to fight to nurse him the week I did. My GI was not happy with me, he wanted me back on my immunosuppresents PRONTO.

On the bright side the nurses in the hospital were really impressed. Of course they knew how engorged I was going to be after a week of nursing, too.

 

[graceanne]

OMG thank you all so much for all the links and advice! I REALLY appreciate it!

*scampers off to go read*

*hugs*

Remember there are a lot of experienced mothers/nursers on this board. If you ever have questions or worries I'm sure we'd love to help.

 

[intothewoods]

Fenugreek comes in capsules too and is the bomb. Does make you smell like maple syrup. There's also this site, which has a lot of useful links in it. La leche league is also great. You may very well come across people who are extreme at La Leche and the Kelly Mom site but they're free. Take what you need and smile through the rest.

 

[Homburg]

Hahaha, totally. Because you're never good enough. Never. It's like insane zero-sum high school girl clique game.

Picking this one post out of many, many similar posts to comment on.

Thank goodness that I'm not a woman. I like that I hang out with a group of guys and not worry about how I'm judged for shit like this. And if there is judging going on, there's usually confrontation followed by actual conflict resolution. The social shit that I see the women in my life, my female friends, and you all posting here go through is scary. That you (general) are putting each other through it as a gender is even more scary.

 

[rida]

It is funny that of all the things in my life that I know I'm not doing "right", the thing that worries me the most is parenting. To the point that I can find something to beat myself over in each and every post made by another mom.

Of course it does not help to have your own mom making you feel bad about your way of doing things ... even when it is exactly how she did it so she should know better

The biggest thing is that the worst critics of other women are women themselves. As if the only way we can feel good about our own choices is by bashing/look down on other women's one and keeping tabs and scores.

ETA: I see Homburg-sama has said the same thing ...

 

[intothewoods]

Picking this one post out of many, many similar posts to comment on.

Thank goodness that I'm not a woman. I like that I hang out with a group of guys and not worry about how I'm judged for shit like this. And if there is judging going on, there's usually confrontation followed by actual conflict resolution. The social shit that I see the women in my life, my female friends, and you all posting here go through is scary. That you (general) are putting each other through it as a gender is even more scary.

I actually have a really close group of women friends now who are awesome and I'm thankful. I just stay clear of the crazy one up types. And graceanne says it well above. Do what works for you. Life is too short to get caught up in all that.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Picking this one post out of many, many similar posts to comment on.

Thank goodness that I'm not a woman. I like that I hang out with a group of guys and not worry about how I'm judged for shit like this. And if there is judging going on, there's usually confrontation followed by actual conflict resolution. The social shit that I see the women in my life, my female friends, and you all posting here go through is scary. That you (general) are putting each other through it as a gender is even more scary.

reason no. 249 why i've never had any good female friends and why unfortunately i probably never will.

 

[rumara]

hmmm. i consider myself a real woman, and i am lucky to have 3 female friends who qualify as well. all of us are very different, with differently shaped bodies sans silicone, with different levels of cooking and cleaning skills (and i find those qualifications rather outdated, frankly); none of us fart in public, though i have heard seshat burp several times.. we all happen to have the same sexual proclivities, which is helpful when related issues come up. oh, and we all curse like.. drunken construction workers? at any rate, the cursing seems to be universal. i'm not sure what actually defines my womanliness, or femininity.. perhaps my shape, my desires, my softness? what i wear and how i approach men?

 

[Keroin]

It is funny that of all the things in my life that I know I'm not doing "right", the thing that worries me the most is parenting. To the point that I can find something to beat myself over in each and every post made by another mom.

Of course it does not help to have your own mom making you feel bad about your way of doing things ... even when it is exactly how she did it so she should know better

The biggest thing is that the worst critics of other women are women themselves. As if the only way we can feel good about our own choices is by bashing/look down on other women's one and keeping tabs and scores.

ETA: I see Homburg-sama has said the same thing ...

I wish I could remember where I heard this quote - and I'm sure not exact on the wording - but it was something along the lines of: "Every parent damages their children. Some just put a smudge on the window, some tear the whole house down." Something like that.

I think just being cognizant that you want to be a good parent, and making an effort to be a good parent, is huge. You won't do everything right, you just won't.