Where are all the women?

[satindesire]

Right. And that is fucked.

For the win.

Sad, isn't it? Kinda leaves you with a bitter taste in your mouth to think that after women's suffrage, the sexual revolution and the feminist movement, we're still in that position?

 

[Homburg]

I dunno. I'm having trouble buying that it's our pervy distribution entirely. I've seen the same accusations fly in Femdom all the time, the hairy manly man bottom is at a premium.

I wasn't actually trying to make a comment on distribution overall. Just saying that we literally see it on these boards because there's a goodly number of submissive women here on Lit in particular. Not trying to look on a macro level.

Of the man-bottoms I know, the one that all the Fdoms love could probably whip my ass in a second. He's an old fart, but still very much the rasty manly man. And it doesn't matter if he's in pumps and a dress. He's still manly. (The weedy wimpy ones seem a dime a dozen, though this is just my perspective locally.) Second on the popular-with-Fdoms list is a truly ancient old guy, that is British, incredibly well-spoken, personable, and very much the man in a very proper, elderly British way. I can't imagine him ever turning a wrench or hammering a nail, yet there is no question whatsoever.

 

[satindesire]

Second on the popular-with-Fdoms list is a truly ancient old guy, that is British, incredibly well-spoken, personable, and very much the man in a very proper, elderly British way. I can't imagine him ever turning a wrench or hammering a nail, yet there is no question whatsoever.

Good God, I need glasses I guess. I read that "Turning a wench."

Haha!

 

[00Syd]

Sad, isn't it? Kinda leaves you with a bitter taste in your mouth to think that after women's suffrage, the sexual revolution and the feminist movement, we're still in that position?

Especially because so many people just don't seem to get why this is discomforting.

 

[Netzach]

Especially because so many people just don't seem to get why this is discomforting.

The quandary to me is, well...is it because femininity is so low as to be shameful to embrace, or is it discomfort, destabilization and fear and even resentment?

If this guy is free to cry and put on lipstick and flame and flake out on moving furniture, exactly why am I doing all this shit I have to do?

 

[Homburg]

The quandary to me is, well...is it because femininity is so low as to be shameful to embrace, or is it discomfort, destabilization and fear and even resentment?

If this guy is free to cry and put on lipstick and flame and flake out on moving furniture, exactly why am I doing all this shit I have to do?

This would be a perfect time to post that Enjoli commercial that JM found.

 

[myinnerslut]

This would be a perfect time to post that Enjoli commercial that JM found.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4X4MwbVf5OA

for you

 

[Homburg]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4X4MwbVf5OA

for you

Thank you, Girl Friday.

There is probably some irony in you posting this, in this context

 

[myinnerslut]

Thank you, Girl Friday.

There is probably some irony in you posting this, in this context

probably.

(i had to look up "girl friday")

 

[Netzach]

Heh. I was meaning more the tension between men who walk the male role line and those that don't.

I mean, I think a lot of people do it out of obligation and not joy. Because their ass will be kicked badly if they don't.

And when they see someone who is doing it anyway, response is to tear that dude down. One way or another.

 

[Keroin]

This has been covered by myself and Keroin in regards to our respective posts. Not-manly generally refers to boyish. Feminine is a different concept. There is some feminising going on, but it is a somewhat different area. More marketing than behaviour.

Yes, JM also weighed in on this. And yet, everyone seems to be skating right over it. Interesting.

My expectations are of people. Not men. Not women. People. (Yes, I know what I titled the threads and how I worded the OP's, Hollywood taught me a few things about hooking viewers).

I respect the entire gender spectrum and I'm comfortable with my place on it, thankyouverymuch. The Netz's and the OSG's and the Shanks and the JM's of this world hold equal weight in my eyes.

What I don't respect is people, (aside from those with real psychological issues), who shirk responsibility, who'd rather freak out and curl up in ball than deal with simple problems, who refuse to be an adult when a situation calls for it.

I don't hate those people and I accept their right to behave how they choose...but I don't respect them.


Here, here's some rocks...sigh...go ahead.

 

[Netzach]

Yes, JM also weighed in on this. And yet, everyone seems to be skating right over it. Interesting.

My expectations are of people. Not men. Not women. People. (Yes, I know what I titled the threads and how I worded the OP's, Hollywood taught me a few things about hooking viewers).

I respect the entire gender spectrum and I'm comfortable with my place on it, thankyouverymuch. The Netz's and the OSG's and the Shanks and the JM's of this world hold equal weight in my eyes.

What I don't respect is people, (aside from those with real psychological issues), who shirk responsibility, who'd rather freak out and curl up in ball rather than deal with simple problems, who refuse to be an adult when a situation calls for it.

I don't hate those people and I accept their right to behave how they choose...but I don't respect them.


Here, here's some rocks...sigh...go ahead.

I don't either.

However I also acknowledge that everyone has something which reduces them to stupidity in the eyes of someone else. One of the facets of compatibility.

I could never respect a a lover who won't eat anything but middle americana kinda food, or who can't look me in the eye and discuss sex openly. Stupid, really.

Numbers put me in a crying tizz. Stupid.

 

[Homburg]

Heh. I was meaning more the tension between men who walk the male role line and those that don't.

I mean, I think a lot of people do it out of obligation and not joy. Because their ass will be kicked badly if they don't.

And when they see someone who is doing it anyway, response is to tear that dude down. One way or another.

I think the last part of the equation is what bothers me most. The idea that the ones who are the most repressed are the ones saying the nastiest things. That just bothers me.

 

[Netzach]

I think the last part of the equation is what bothers me most. The idea that the ones who are the most repressed are the ones saying the nastiest things. That just bothers me.

I don't subscribe to the "all gay bashers are repressed homos" notion whatsoever.

However that doesn't mean none are either, it's definitely an element in play.

 

[BiBunny]

So in spite of my Master's many manly attributes, the fact that he likes to suck dick from time to time automatically makes him not a man? Hmm. I may have a lot of seemingly stringent requirements for "manliness," but that sure ain't one of 'em.

 

[intothewoods]

Really? I feel like the divide was wider when I was young. While there's more stuff branded for boys/girls, the toy divide was wider then. Boys did NOT play with dolls, and girls did NOT play with trucks.

It may be more because the toy industry has metastasised into the enormous agglomeration producing toy-branded dreck across a broad spectrum of interests. There's still toy cars, dolls, building blocks, etc. Those are as boy/girl as ever. Where it gets weird is the toy car manufacturer trying to pink up a car to get the girls to buy it, and same with other girl-centric toymakers trying to grab boy-dollars.

I played with a truck. Just being difficult. Yes, it's all marketing and consumerism. And of course, there are gender neutral Waldorf-esque toys marketed to my demographic and hip, expensive kids clothes marketed to moms with more money than me, which is a whole other related topic. I shouldn't have to choose between pink Tinkerbell crap and red Cars stuff. Pottery Barn Kids is the devil! Ok, not really, but I would prefer things to not scream at me GIRL GIRL THIS IS FOR A GIRL or BOY BOY THIS IS FOR A MOTHER FUCKING BOY. My bug-loving, full of boy energy boy does actually like pink and flowers.

 

[intothewoods]

I don't subscribe to the "all gay bashers are repressed homos" notion whatsoever.

However that doesn't mean none are either, it's definitely an element in play.

Heck yeah! Or just that the idea of being gay guy is so terrible that it inspires loathing, anger, violence.

 

[Netzach]

So in spite of my Master's many manly attributes, the fact that he likes to suck dick from time to time automatically makes him not a man? Hmm. I may have a lot of seemingly stringent requirements for "manliness," but that sure ain't one of 'em.

You are asking the wrong girl if you think I think this.

Sure there are hypermasculine guys who like dick. There are also really femme guys who do, and femme guys who don't.

Why is that such a big deal to people, is my question?

 

[JMohegan]

The quandary to me is, well...is it because femininity is so low as to be shameful to embrace, or is it discomfort, destabilization and fear and even resentment?

If this guy is free to cry and put on lipstick and flame and flake out on moving furniture, exactly why am I doing all this shit I have to do?

That could be part of it. However, I also believe that the feminist movement, as it played out, bears a lot of responsibility for the fact that masculinity is still seen as greater than.

As I said a few a days ago, my chief complaint with regard to the movement is the failure to celebrate the contributions to society traditionally made by women. What should we infer from this failure, but the implicit denigration of that which is traditionally feminine?

Nurturing, care-taking, tenderness, compassion - these things have nothing to do with squealing over bugs, or freaking out over an emergency need for home repair, or bursting out in tears of helplessness, or tottering around on high heels after an extended makeup session. That is *not* the way my mother, aunts, grandmother, mothers of my friends, or any other adult females I personally knew behaved back in the day.

Dedication to the care and keeping of husband, children, and home has zip to do with lack of responsibility, prettified dressing, or flightiness.

 

[JMohegan]

Sad, isn't it? Kinda leaves you with a bitter taste in your mouth to think that after women's suffrage, the sexual revolution and the feminist movement, we're still in that position?

"Well, children, where there is so much racket there must be something out of kilter. I think that 'twixt the negroes of the South and the women at the North, all talking about rights, the white men will be in a fix pretty soon. But what's all this here talking about?

That man over there says that women need to be helped into carriages, and lifted over ditches, and to have the best place everywhere. Nobody ever helps me into carriages, or over mud-puddles, or gives me any best place! And ain't I a woman? Look at me! Look at my arm! I have ploughed and planted, and gathered into barns, and no man could head me! And ain't I a woman? I could work as much and eat as much as a man - when I could get it - and bear the lash as well! And ain't I a woman? I have borne thirteen children, and seen most all sold off to slavery, and when I cried out with my mother's grief, none but Jesus heard me! And ain't I a woman?

Then they talk about this thing in the head; what's this they call it? [member of audience whispers, "intellect"] That's it, honey. What's that got to do with women's rights or negroes' rights? If my cup won't hold but a pint, and yours holds a quart, wouldn't you be mean not to let me have my little half measure full?

Then that little man in black there, he says women can't have as much rights as men, 'cause Christ wasn't a woman! Where did your Christ come from? Where did your Christ come from? From God and a woman! Man had nothing to do with Him.

If the first woman God ever made was strong enough to turn the world upside down all alone, these women together ought to be able to turn it back , and get it right side up again! And now they is asking to do it, the men better let them.

Obliged to you for hearing me, and now old Sojourner ain't got nothing more to say."

- Sojourner Truth, 1851

 

[Keroin]

I don't either.

However I also acknowledge that everyone has something which reduces them to stupidity in the eyes of someone else. One of the facets of compatibility.

I could never respect a a lover who won't eat anything but middle americana kinda food, or who can't look me in the eye and discuss sex openly. Stupid, really.

Numbers put me in a crying tizz. Stupid.

Oh, for sure. Also, I have some pretty strict requirements for a mate that I wouldn't inflict on the general population - but that's a separate issue.

I am up front about the kind of gal I am but that doesn't mean I don't come with an econo-sized load of quirks. I rarely freak out at things. Though, once, a bee did fly in my car, and right in my face, while I was practicing a 180 and I almost flipped it...much to my passenger's chagrin. And once, I screamed when a big wave came over the boat during a white squall. Oh, and I can't watch anyone trim their toenails...yuck. (But I would if I had to. Still, yuck).

Chuck keeps threatening to dress me up as a Baptist girl from Savannah, on Palm Sunday, complete with bow in hair...and that scares the bejeebus out of me!

(Oh and the needle thing. Hm. Guess I'm scared of more than I thought).

 

[BiBunny]

You are asking the wrong girl if you think I think this.

Sure there are hypermasculine guys who like dick. There are also really femme guys who do, and femme guys who don't.

Why is that such a big deal to people, is my question?

I've talked to so many men who have a fascination with dick that I think almost everyone is bisexual. (Emphasis on the "almost.") I have a lot of issues with masculinity, I suppose, but that's not one of them.

I don't know who said it, but I agree with the assessment that males who are not "men" are more boyish than feminine. (Honestly, I don't even think of most sissy cross-dressers as feminine, just boy-like.) These males are immature and incompetent and WHINY, FOR FUCK'S SAKE (sorry, I might've had to deal with this one too many times lately), and they basically want a surrogate Mommy to take care of them, which is something I have absolutely zero interest in because I am apparently not a "woman" myself.

I think I said this over in the other thread, but I believe it bears repeating. If I can do everything a certain male can do and then some, what do I need him for? If I have to go behind him fixing everything he's screwed up, then it'd be less trouble not to have him around in the first place.

To me, "be a (wo)man" really translates to "grow the hell up." Unfortunately, there are tons of dudes and chicks who haven't quite grasped the concept yet.

 

[Keroin]

"If the first woman God ever made was strong enough to turn the world upside down all alone, these women together ought to be able to turn it back , and get it right side up again! And now they is asking to do it, the men better let them."

- Sojourner Truth, 1851

NICE!

Do you find it telling that black men were given legal rights before women of any colour?

 

[Homburg]

You are asking the wrong girl if you think I think this.

Sure there are hypermasculine guys who like dick. There are also really femme guys who do, and femme guys who don't.

Why is that such a big deal to people, is my question?

Might have something to with the repressed gay-bashers. If a gay man challenges his sexuality, a really manly man liking the occasional dick must really fuck with it in a deadly fashion.

One of the most amusing and surprising moments of video game play I've had was during Grand Theft Auto San Andreas. Lots of people bash those games for being misogynist, yet it was the lead character in GTA that gave the best line ever. In a subplot involving a friend that just left prison wanting to deal with his prison boyfriend, the lead character, your character as the player, says (paraphrased) "Hey man, everybody likes a little mustache now and then." I about fell over.

 

[graceanne]

Name some what?

I'm talking about how I believe feminism got a bad name among many in society at large. Equal rights seems like such a simple, obvious concept. Who could possibly oppose it on rational grounds? And yet "feminist" is not considered a positive term for many people. How did that happen? The past is what I'm talking about here.

Possibly because of those of us who've run into the rough end of feminism. Women who say things like 'why don't you have a real job' or 'don't you want to do anything with your life'?

It's easier for me. The house is full of boy stuff, girl stuff, and non-gender specific stuff. The kids are free to choose whatever they want to play with. So the boys will occasionally play with the dolls and such, and the girls will occasionally play with the hot wheels.

At the end of the day though, the boys like boy colours and boy stuff. The girls like the pinks and lavenders and girl stuff. Part of it is response to marketing, sure, but part of it is just how they are.

I've always given my kids a choice of what to play with. My girls like girly things and my son likes boy things. Well, mostly. Sometimes he'll put on his sisters dresses and/or tights and pretend he'd superman. Go figure.

I don't think it's feminization, it's non-naturalism. I'm not saying it's neutral or positive either.

People are afraid of wrinkles, because people are afraid of dying. Aging reminds them that they're not imortal and that freaks them out.

Most adult males have hair on their torsos. Even a guy of Scandinavian descent, like me, has a combination smattering + trail.

Hairless chest = girly chest, to me.

Okay, commercialized, prettified, objectified, and non-naturalized I'll buy.

Black men don't always, and I think that native American's don't either.

probably.

(i had to look up "girl friday")

LOL

The joys of relationships with older guys. lol

I played with a truck. Just being difficult. Yes, it's all marketing and consumerism. And of course, there are gender neutral Waldorf-esque toys marketed to my demographic and hip, expensive kids clothes marketed to moms with more money than me, which is a whole other related topic. I shouldn't have to choose between pink Tinkerbell crap and red Cars stuff. Pottery Barn Kids is the devil! Ok, not really, but I would prefer things to not scream at me GIRL GIRL THIS IS FOR A GIRL or BOY BOY THIS IS FOR A MOTHER FUCKING BOY. My bug-loving, full of boy energy boy does actually like pink and flowers.

My friend says if my son was any more boy he'd be an ape, but he's also the most affectionate. He brings me more flowers than his sisters ever did and insists on getting a kiss for the. I think hyper masculine people are annoying, like they're over compensating for something. There should be balance - hyper feminine people annoy me, too.