Maine Joins The Movement!

[Belegon]

http://www.mercurynews.com/samesexmarriage/ci_12307588

AUGUSTA, Maine — Maine's governor signed a freshly passed bill today approving gay marriage, making it the fifth state to approve the practice and moving New England closer to allowing it throughout the region.

New Hampshire legislators were also poised to send a gay marriage bill to their governor, who hasn't indicated whether he'll sign it. If he does, Rhode Island would be the region's sole holdout.


Um, hey fellow Californians... yeah, I know I moved, but I will always be a SoCal dude...

New England is making us look like a bunch of bigoted jackasses. Just sayin'

 

[voluptuary_manque]

http://www.mercurynews.com/samesexmarriage/ci_12307588

AUGUSTA, Maine — Maine's governor signed a freshly passed bill today approving gay marriage, making it the fifth state to approve the practice and moving New England closer to allowing it throughout the region.

New Hampshire legislators were also poised to send a gay marriage bill to their governor, who hasn't indicated whether he'll sign it. If he does, Rhode Island would be the region's sole holdout.


Um, hey fellow Californians... yeah, I know I moved, but I will always be a SoCal dude...

New England is making us look like a bunch of bigoted jackasses. Just sayin'

Remember which set of bigoted jackasses were instrumental in passing Prop 8!

 

[Safe_Bet]

http://www.mercurynews.com/samesexmarriage/ci_12307588

AUGUSTA, Maine — Maine's governor signed a freshly passed bill today approving gay marriage, making it the fifth state to approve the practice and moving New England closer to allowing it throughout the region.

New Hampshire legislators were also poised to send a gay marriage bill to their governor, who hasn't indicated whether he'll sign it. If he does, Rhode Island would be the region's sole holdout.


Um, hey fellow Californians... yeah, I know I moved, but I will always be a SoCal dude...

New England is making us look like a bunch of bigoted jackasses. Just sayin'

Remember which set of bigoted jackasses were instrumental in passing Prop 8!

Yeah. Makes you have to think about the difference between all of us progressive "liberal minded" Califorinians as compared to all of those "fair minded" midwestern hicks and stuffy assed New Englanders we've been looking down on. Seems like past time to get off our collective high horses, shut the hell up and follow for a change. I'm a long ways from being proud of my state anymore.

 

[Belegon]

Remember which set of bigoted jackasses were instrumental in passing Prop 8!

Hey buddy, it happened on our watch. Yeah, you and I both voted no. But I am willing to accept a share of the responsibility from the same POV that I would if something goes wrong at a store that I am managing.

My real hope is that with every state that does the right thing, the pressure builds. I still don't see how the justices can come back and allow Prop. 8 to stand without completely contradicting their previous written opinion... especially that part about civil unions not being equal due to the societal realities associated with the word "marriage." To my POV, the passage of Prop 8 is actually a constitutional amendment that is... unconstitutional. It is as contradictory as "all men created equal" was with the institution of slavery.

I want Californians to feel shame. Even those like me, that wore their heart on their sleeve. Because, what if we had each managed to get one person to look at their prejudice for what it is and vote no?

I know for a fact that my sister and brother-in-law voted yes. And it feels like a slap in the face each time I admit it to myself. even though I had literally screaming arguments with my sister about it.

 

[Belegon]

I'm a long ways from being proud of my state anymore.

Nope.

I ain't going that far. While I have strong feelings, I am not throwing away the fact that California led for so long.

Watch Milk again, Bets...and remember that we, as a state, were once on the cutting edge.

I want us to be ashamed of an anomaly. I still celebrate our progressive heritage.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Hey buddy, it happened on our watch. Yeah, you and I both voted no. But I am willing to accept a share of the responsibility from the same POV that I would if something goes wrong at a store that I am managing.

My real hope is that with every state that does the right thing, the pressure builds. I still don't see how the justices can come back and allow Prop. 8 to stand without completely contradicting their previous written opinion... especially that part about civil unions not being equal due to the societal realities associated with the word "marriage." To my POV, the passage of Prop 8 is actually a constitutional amendment that is... unconstitutional. It is as contradictory as "all men created equal" was with the institution of slavery.

I want Californians to feel shame. Even those like me, that wore their heart on their sleeve. Because, what if we had each managed to get one person to look at their prejudice for what it is and vote no?

I know for a fact that my sister and brother-in-law voted yes. And it feels like a slap in the face each time I admit it to myself. even though I had literally screaming arguments with my sister about it.

You should have locked them in the closet until election day was over, right?

 

[voluptuary_manque]

As several anti-gay marriage commentators have stated, the momentum is on our side. They grieve, we should be rejoicing. It is but a matter of time before some federal judge, probably out here in Region 8, rules that legally established marriages in one state must be recognized by all. DOMA will fall as will Prop 8. It is but a matter of time!

 

[Safe_Bet]

Nope.

I ain't going that far. While I have strong feelings, I am not throwing away the fact that California led for so long.

Watch Milk again, Bets...and remember that we, as a state, were once on the cutting edge.

I want us to be ashamed of an anomaly. I still celebrate our progressive heritage.

To you it might be an anomaly. To me it was my marriage. I no longer care about cutting edge, state of the art or progressive. I want good 'ol fashioned "fair".

 

[Huckleman2000]

I think Iowa will prove to be a seminal moment. Progressive legislators all over the country saw the collective yawn in the Midwest voting populace over the issue, and realized the social tipping point is nigh.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

I think Iowa will prove to be a seminal moment. Progressive legislators all over the country saw the collective yawn in the Midwest voting populace over the issue, and realized the social tipping point is nigh.

I agree. When the Heartland comes on board, the Bible Belt can start shaking in its boots.

 

[Belegon]

To you it might be an anomaly. To me it was my marriage. I no longer care about cutting edge, state of the art or progressive. I want good 'ol fashioned "fair".

Before setting out for revenge, dig two graves.



A perfect example of why this cliche became a cliche is that in the last few months, you have established a pattern of reacting angrily to people you know to be on your side. You lash out at everyone, not just at your enemies.

For you to be "pulling rank" on me in a discussion that you know I am passionate about does you no good. How are you going to achieve any positives out of such a statement?

Anger has its place. This is not it.

 

[midwestyankee]

I'm really proud of my birth state today. The downeasters have once again done the right thing. Maine: the way life should be.

 

[JamesSD]

Remember which set of bigoted jackasses were instrumental in passing Prop 8!

Old people?

Don't get me wrong, I love old people, but if no one under 65 had voted, Prop 8 would have failed.

California in some ways is not the liberal hotbed it once was. While still liberal compared to the rest of the country, shifting demographics have move us to be a little less conservative than the Northeast.

Go Maine!

 

[Safe_Bet]

Before setting out for revenge, dig two graves.

A perfect example of why this cliche became a cliche is that in the last few months, you have established a pattern of reacting angrily to people you know to be on your side. You lash out at everyone, not just at your enemies.

For you to be "pulling rank" on me in a discussion that you know I am passionate about does you no good. How are you going to achieve any positives out of such a statement?

Anger has its place. This is not it.

My aren't you the pompous, condescending asshole! I know, I know... you are going to spout you same old "I'm proving your point" crap.

Till you walk a little bit in my shoes, there bub, don't you dare be condescending about my anger. You are nothing but a silly ass chicken squawking at the pig about lack of commitment towards breakfast. It's easy to do when you only "lay" platitudes and happy assed kumbya shit, but when you got your own bacon on the line it makes a world of difference.

P.S. Don't worry though, my 6 year old daughters get it when I explain why I'm angry about why mommy and poppi can't be married anymore, even if you don't.

 

[Belegon]

My aren't you the pompous, condescending asshole! I know, I know... you are going to spout you same old "I'm proving your point" crap.

Till you walk a little bit in my shoes, there bub, don't you dare be condescending about my anger. You are nothing but a silly ass chicken squawking at the pig about lack of commitment towards breakfast. It's easy to do when you only "lay" platitudes and happy assed kumbya shit, but when you got your own bacon on the line it makes a world of difference.

P.S. Don't worry though, my 6 year old daughters get it when I explain why I'm angry about why mommy and poppi can't be married anymore, even if you don't.

You were far better served if you had kept this discussion in PM where it belongs.

 

[Safe_Bet]

You were far better served if you had kept this discussion in PM where it belongs.

You mean like you did here?

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=30863328&postcount=11

 

[3113]

New England is making us look like a bunch of bigoted jackasses. Just sayin'

I am, and will always be ashamed of CA for Prop. 8--just as I am for the fact that Reagan was or governor and got to be president thanks to that.

What I'm pleased with is the fact that the Prop. 8 people are finding, to their dismay, that they were totally wrong. They thought that if they could just undermine gay marriage in CA, other states wouldn't go there. They stopped CA...but other states are going there one after another. It didn't stop a damn thing. And the anti-prop-8 people now know how to fight back and are doing so with a vengeance.

I'm certainly not glad that prop. 8 passed, but I am glad that it got the opposite results of what it was after. No one is accepting it and going back into the closet, and other states are making decisions they might not have made but for that debacle.

As for anger at CA over this issue, let's keep something in mind before we start to toss our babies with bathwaters, and our friendships too: yes, there were big problems in getting votes. Nasty tricks were played, and not adequately countered, and a lot of stupid people fell for those tricks, including people who usually didn't vote, but did in this particular election, and so tipped the scales. Most of all, however, we were fucked because it only took a majority to pass Prop. 8. In other states, they wisely require 2/3's for something like this. That's why a small amount over 50% was able to destroy marriages and CA's reputation.

But before we give up on CA altogether, we should remember that for all those television spots and money and effort that the prop. 8 folks put in, all those churches and groups behind it, they still only got a little over 50%. Had they needed 2/3rds they would have lost. So, maybe CA isn't as lost a cause as we think. I sure hope not. If it is, well, then it's time for me to move and give allegiance to a wiser and better state. Maybe I'll move to Maine.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Those opposed to Prop 8 were over-confident and responded too little and too late. It isn't just the over-sixty vote that passed it, it was the elderly African-American Christian voter who, as 3113 pointed out, rarely votes who passed it. Everything has its price and the price of Obama's victory, it seems, was a temporary setback for gay marriage in California.

The CalCourt won't disallow the marriages that were performed in good faith. They made that quite clear at the hearing. While at the time it didn't look like they would disallow Prop 8, given the events in the rest of the country, they very well may. Let's keep looking at the half-full glass, at least until it gets knocked over.

 

[Dragonlipz]

Congrats to Maine...

 

[Stella_Omega]

Before setting out for revenge, dig two graves.



A perfect example of why this cliche became a cliche is that in the last few months, you have established a pattern of reacting angrily to people you know to be on your side. You lash out at everyone, not just at your enemies.

For you to be "pulling rank" on me in a discussion that you know I am passionate about does you no good. How are you going to achieve any positives out of such a statement?

Anger has its place. This is not it.

Bel, you have two choices yourself here; support Safe Bet in spite of the anger and fear that shows in her words and actions, even though they seem to be a little rude towards your good self--

Or, decide that only nice lesbians get your support.

But, damn. I am so fucking sick and tired of advice of the "dig two graves" sort, every time I express anger about things that I am already working to change if I can. This is an intolerable situation for Sue and Amy, and no kindly admonishment on your part is going to change that. You will NOT object when she or anyone else expresses their frustration and fear. It isn't about you.

I'm right with you, Sue- I want good old fashioned fair.

 

[TE999]

The New England states have always been a hotbed of 'free thinkers' going back to colonial times. They were the first to advocate religious freedom, condemn slavery, fight to keep the states united, etc. One revolution began there and it would seem another one's brewing...it's long overdue.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Unfortunately for the queers, California counts for about 1/7th of the US population. Every state that's passed same-sex marriage adds up to the population of a large city. This is hardly an avalanche of support.

TE999 Dear old New England also hosted the Hartford Convention where they wanted to bug-out of the War of 1812 and secede from the Union. If I'm not mistaken I believe NE kept the Brits supplied during the War of 1812. Yankee Doodles, indeed.

 

[Belegon]

Bel, you have two choices yourself here; support Safe Bet in spite of the anger and fear that shows in her words and actions, even though they seem to be a little rude towards your good self--

Or, decide that only nice lesbians get your support.

But, damn. I am so fucking sick and tired of advice of the "dig two graves" sort, every time I express anger about things that I am already working to change if I can. This is an intolerable situation for Sue and Amy, and no kindly admonishment on your part is going to change that. You will NOT object when she or anyone else expresses their frustration and fear. It isn't about you.

I'm right with you, Sue- I want good old fashioned fair.

Bullshit. I support her by supporting her cause. I didn't mean for that to be a personal attack, but advice. And while it may be advice that is hard to take, the history of human rights movements indicates that calm, rational progress is far more effective in the long run. Hundreds of small, violent rebellions did nothing for India. Ghandi, on the other hand... MLK. Rosa Parks. Jackie Robinson.

Anger breeds anger. And when people get angry, they get entrenched. They fight back, on the defense. They do not move forward.

I have nothing against her, despite the fact that she took it that way and ran with it. The tone I wished to use with that statement, if indeed we were face to face, would have been a calming one. I did a poor job expressing myself in that it created something quite the opposite.

I don't feel she doesn't have reason to be upset. But to take out that anger on the people who, in this fight, are her teammates? How is that productive? How is that a positive? I challenge you, Stella, to give me a single reason it is productive for her and I to be angry with each other about this. Even if I was angry for a moment, I let it go. Now I am just saddened by it.

And to it not being about me, I also cry bullshit. Since when are human rights issues only about the people directly affected? If only gay people supported the cause of gay marriage, how far would it get?

There is a huge difference between being rational and being uncaring. Controlling your passions does not mean you do not have any.

I stand on my record on this issue. Have I ever been anything other than the staunchest supporter of this cause?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Bel, if you feel you took the wrong tone, that you were trying to calm her down and you accomplished the opposite effect- you say "Good Christ, Sue, I so fucking put my foot in my mouth! I meant that the Prop 8 people have dug two graves, and guess who's going to help you put them in theirs? "

See. you can even lie a little bit, because there are two sides to being an ally. One is fighting alongside your friend, and the other is helping them maintain morale.

And stop using Ghandi as an example the man had a lifetime of training in meditation. It's like claiming that Bruce Lee was the fighter we all should be. None of us are going to be that.


When people talk about Rosa Parks... I wonder, does anyone know what her daily personality was like? Was she a saintly, self-effacing lady, or did she, in the hearing of her private circle ever scream and curse the damn honkies that day after day treated her like shit? Did she snap at her children, in her frustration with the world? Give it a break man, you know she did, at least once in a while.

MLK was a politician, yes. But when he wrote from Birmingham that he was beginning to feel that the race's worst enemies were not the racists that opposed them but the white allies that gave them only lukewarm support-- he wrote this line in a very kindly way. You ever think about what he said, under his breath while he wrote that? You're an empathic person, give it a shot.

Do you get what I'm saying? Do you understand the difference between expressing anger about a situation-- even repeatedly-- amongst friends, and the face one wears in the courthouse?

I can tell you, Bel, that I could not continue campaigning, smiling, gently cajoling the ignorant PIGS that voted against this into changing their SHITHOLE PIGGY MINDS, sometimes, if I weren't able to relieve my feelings once in a while. Sue needs to do that more often than I do-- don't take it personally.

(Here's a link to MLK's letter, and look for the paragraphs where he talks about the difference between "non-violent" and "Non-confrontative" action. )

 

[cantdog]

Conventional commentators say that other oppressed minorities, Hispanics for example, made H8 happen.