Out of Body Writing

[WRJames]

My question is how you feel about writing erotic experiences for a gender or sexual orientation that is not your own.

I often write female characters, and I have always been comfortable doing this. I have been assured by women that these characters are fairly convincing.

In the Eden series, almost all the characters are casually bisexual. I've never been sure where this is coming from. I find it a lot easier to write girl on girl than boy on boy but I've done both.

There are male authors who write at length about the travails of a female character in a BDSM setting. I gave this an interesting twist in The Descent by having some of the same things happen to a male character -- who in the end becomes a transexual. Unsettling to write, and perhaps to read also, although perhaps less so for female readers?

Do you think it is easier for women to write men or for men to write women -- gay to write straight or the other way around?

 

[Darkniciad]

I never have any trouble writing female characters, and feedback seems to suggest that I do pretty well. Most of my stories have a primarily female point of view.

When I write male characters, they seem to need to have a lot of my quirks for me to write them with ease. My VR: DQ series was ridiculously easy, because there's a damn lot of me in there. Same for Genie Valentine. Zoraster's not too difficult, because he's my dark side combined with years of nightmares.

Typical real-world males aren't easy for me, because I'm about as far off the typical real-world male scale as you can get.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I know women who never write women or heterosexuals, only gay men. Some of them are convincing enough that readers assume their male nom-des-plume are legit. Some of them write emo weepy ridiculously over-verbal men, that sound like sixteen-year-old-girls.

I know male writers who write very convincing women, and male writers whose attempts are laughable, and male writers who write men in skirts when they write women.

But here's the thing-- I think that women who wish to read gay men will usually find those written by female writers more satisfying. And men looking for "girl-on-girl action" will be tend to be bored or baffled by genuine lesbian writing.

This goes back to some of the discussions we've had recently about "porn for women" vs "porn for men." To make a sweeping generalization, women tend to need a wider frame around the activities of sex, some emotional background, and a sense of motivation-- that many men, to make another horrible pronouncement, don't need-- or even notice.

I gave this an interesting twist in The Descent by having some of the same things happen to a male character -- who in the end becomes a transexual. Unsettling to write, and perhaps to read also, although perhaps less so for female readers?

Here's my challenge to you; write a man who is submissive-- and remains a masculine man.

 

[WRJames]

This goes back to some of the discussions we've had recently about "porn for women" vs "porn for men." To make a sweeping generalization, women tend to need a wider frame around the activities of sex, some emotional background, and a sense of motivation-- that many men, to make another horrible pronouncement, don't need-- or even notice.
Here's my challenge to you; write a man who is submissive-- and remains a masculine man.

Well, I keep getting comments from Boxlicker that my stuff is too slow -- mostly because I take time for some niceties like character development.

Please define what you mean by submissive and masculine. If you mean by submissive enjoying passive sex, probably Noah in the Eden series would fit the bill. But the Eden characters are bisexual more along the lines of ancient Greeks or Romans, not gay in the modern sense.

I think I would have a hard time writing a character, male or female, who actually likes to go shopping. So that's probably where my depiction of women fails.

 

[TE999]

I have written m/f, f/f, bi and straight character erotic stories that have met with varying degrees of success. I would imagine by Stella's criterion I fall into the 'men in skirts' category to some extent, but I do attempt to infuse all my fictional relationships with both emotion and motivation. One can always improve, which I try to do with each new story.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Well, I keep getting comments from Boxlicker that my stuff is too slow -- mostly because I take time for some niceties like character development.

Right there is a very good sign

Please define what you mean by submissive and masculine. If you mean by submissive enjoying passive sex, probably Noah in the Eden series would fit the bill. But the Eden characters are bisexual more along the lines of ancient Greeks or Romans, not gay in the modern sense.

I was reacting to "travails of a female character in a BDSM setting," wondering if a man who undergoes these travails would usually become a transsexual(a woman) in your writing? would it be possible for one of your characters to retain his male identity after these experiences?

I think I would have a hard time writing a character, male or female, who actually likes to go shopping. So that's probably where my depiction of women fails.

Hee! Even I like to go shopping!

 

[Wildcard Ky]

I've written from a female POV and had nothing but positive remarks on it. I think that if you have good thoughts and good story, the writing from the opposite POV isn't too difficult at all.

All of my writing is out of body though. When I do write, I literally can't see what's in front of me. I'm so immersed in the scene and the story and that's all that I can see. I literally see the whole scene and write what I'm seeing.

 

[Stella_Omega]

in fact, here's an even harder challenge-- can any of us write one of our own sex with a point of view we can't empathise with?

Can I write a woman who is automatically submissive to men *because they're men*- or a woman who hates men and does the femme fatale? I don't know if I can, honestly!

Can any of our straight guys write a gay man? I know Bear has one, but I don't think he's given the guy any sex scenes...

 

[WRJames]

I was reacting to "travails of a female character in a BDSM setting," wondering if a man who undergoes these travails would usually become a transsexual(a woman) in your writing? would it be possible for one of your characters to retain his male identity after these experiences?

Well, in the Eden series Noah goes through a few heavy sequences of bondage and rape. Five novels and he doesn't have boobs yet.

He does develop a taste for older men -- but part of the plot line is that he is a Seedling -- the first generation of a Seed world, so born artificailly with no human parents. He is desperate for father figures, and the older patrons fill the bill. The fact that he enjoys having them fuck him just adds to the bond.

Of course this infuriates his wife.

In The Descent the intention all along was to turn Tom into a tranny. It began as a Halloween story, and his seduction, enslavement and physical transformation are variations on the traditional vampire mythology. A beautiful woman is the catalyst, and he never loses his attraction to women. But he also discovers that he really likes it up the ass. In the next to last chapter, transformed into a woman (almost) he seduces a man, at first as a joke, but then finds that he is actually falling for the guy.

Have you ever read stuff by POWERONE? He depicts young girls undergoing various torments. I wondered what it would be like to experience those as a male -- after all, two thirds of the things you can do to a girl you can do to a guy. That was part of the inspiration for The Descent.

 

[sr71plt]

I was trained to the stage, and I've written from just about every perspective I can think of. I haven't had complaints, so maybe having had acting training helped.

 

[WRJames]

I was trained to the stage, and I've written from just about every perspective I can think of. I haven't had complaints, so maybe having had acting training helped.

have you ever done any acting out of gender or orientation?

 

[sr71plt]

I haven't "done" any of the "other gender/generation" acting in performance, but in drama schools you are trained to do it. It's a technique for making you aware of being something you aren't--and helping you to break down your defenses from being something else entirely. I've acted a whole range of male roles on stage though. (And I might note that I had a career requiring taking on roles as well--sometime with your life depending on making the act convincing.)

And I think I'm able to bring this to writing. In erotica, it probably helps that I am bi. But I've won awards in the mainstream for writing as a pedophile, a homeless man, a bitter young girl in a wheel chair, a blonde bimbo, a black woman dying of cancer and trying to get to the coast to see the ocean once, a society matron who came unhinged and beat her husband to death with a stilletto heel because he complained about what she served for dinner once too often, a dog fighting for adoption in a last-chance resuce center, a pre WWII Japanese manufacturer having to decide between saving his son or serving his nation, and a toddler (briefly) overlooked in the evacuation of a sinking cruise liner.

I have E's on Lit. on straight, bi, gay, and lesbian stories. Still trying to get one on a nonerotic one, but my highest profile story here is nonerotic and is in the perspective of a mother/wife suffering from postnatal depression.

 

[slyc_willie]

in fact, here's an even harder challenge-- can any of us write one of our own sex with a point of view we can't empathise with?

I think the hardest challenge for me would be to write a submissive man, especially from the first person. I've always been well aware of the fact that I prefer to be "in charge" sexually, but have enjoyed being seduced. I think, were I to write a character that began like me and ended up desiring to be seduced and controlled would be a supreme challenge.

Back on topic, I feel comfortable writing from both male and female points of view, as well as gay or straight. Admittedly, I don't have any lesbian stories up, and only one in the gay male category. I've been meaning to address both issues for some time (and in my Beyond The Veil series, I have an interesting revelation for one of my characters). What good is a writer who doesn't want to challenge his or her own boundaries?

 

[WRJames]

I know male writers who write very convincing women, and male writers whose attempts are laughable, and male writers who write men in skirts when they write women.

What about women writing men? In the Eden series, which is SciFi, there is a piece of apparatus available which is a full fledged prosthetic penis -- which gives me the opportunity to write about how a woman would feel with a full male sexual experience. There is an excerpt (What's It Like to be a Man) out on Lit.

Short of that, can a woman fully comprehend a male sexual experience?

What about the other way around? Is anal sex close similar enough to vaginal sex for a man to understand what it's like to be fucked?

 

[Stella_Omega]

What about women writing men? In the Eden series, which is SciFi, there is a piece of apparatus available which is a full fledged prosthetic penis -- which gives me the opportunity to write about how a woman would feel with a full male sexual experience. There is an excerpt (What's It Like to be a Man) out on Lit.

Short of that, can a woman fully comprehend a male sexual experience?

What about the other way around? Is anal sex close similar enough to vaginal sex for a man to understand what it's like to be fucked?

Well, I asked what a penis feels like, and Slic-Willie told me; "get your hands wet and soapy, and stroke your first and second fingers with the other hand." I kinda think it gives me a clue, it's amazingly sensitive-- do other guys think so?

As far as what it's like to penetrate a woman with real flesh, that's that my fist is for. As for dominating my lover and controlling her sensations and emotions-- I don't need a dick to do that.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Umm, I just read your excerpt, James. I can't find the spot where you write about how a woman would feel with a full male experience.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

The gay characters I've written about haven't had thoroughly described sex with anyone, yet, though one has used a flogger on a woman (just to show that he could, and besides, she wanted it). Mostly, they're in the story to provide color and to be talked about. They function as 'sidekicks' more than anything else. So I'm not sure that it qualifies as a straight guy writing about gay men in the sense you seem to mean. I definitely write about women getting it on with women as well as with men but since I honestly haven't a clue as to what I'm doing in that regards, just call it fantasy.

 

[Trinique_Fire]

I'm not comfortable writing from the straight girl's perspective, nor am I comfortable writing as the voice of the straight OR gay male. Neither am I comfortable writing bisexual characters. Makes me sound pretty bland, I guess.

On the other hand, I write what I know.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I've been going through my writing, trying to find a passage where I've written the fucking from a man's POV-- as opposed to getting fucked from a man's POV-- it's Gay Male Anal, sorry my straight friends...

This new person inside of me knew exactly what he wanted to do, but he was trying to do it with my somewhat-less-than-experienced body. Billy's kiss was making my head swim. I disentangled myself- looking down at this gorgeous panting man- and got my hand between us. I slid the tip of my finger into his asshole- just the least little bit- and used that as a beacon to guide my cock towards, nudging the tip against the tight ring of flesh- I was really going to do this- and pressing in. I stifled my own whimper by pulling a mouthful of his neck into my mouth, and I could feel his humming voice vibrating in my lips. Christ that feeling, as the head of my cock pushed past that tight ring into the heat inside! I could feel the sweat starting across my forehead, my shoulders. Billy shifted in my arms- pulled his legs up and around mine and pulled at me, wanting me in quick, but I wanted to relish this first time and I kept that slow slide... And when that ring hit the base of my cock, and my hips hit his thighs and my nuts were pressed tight against him- I stopped, just to hear him beg.

In my hetero I see I've been writing the fucking from the woman's POV, I should rectify that...

 

[voluptuary_manque]

In my hetero I see I've been writing the fucking from the woman's POV, I should rectify that...

Agreed.

 

[damppanties]

I went looking for a male pov story and the one I found was my Erotic Horror.

His arms flailed and his breath caught in his throat as he struggled to get up, but he realised he was pinned to the ground by the strength of the slight girl. She led his hardness into her and Mark gagged at the sensation. He felt simultaneously aroused and disgusted, pleasure and repulsion warring within him as he felt something wet and slimy, something otherworldly and forbidden encase him. She started moving on top of him, using her thighs and pelvic muscles to grip him tightly inside her. Her lips were locked on his, her breath filtering into his lungs and preventing him from taking even a gulp of the cold night air.

She moved against him, the rhythm taking him to the peak of ecstasy. He had never felt like this before. He knew he was nearing the height of pleasure and concentrated on the wetness into which he was being plunged time and again, faster and faster. Mark closed his eyes tightly and felt himself drifting away. He felt his blood rush out of him, dry up in his veins. His senses turned sluggish, and he made one last effort to buck his hips and let the pressure reach its optimum. Gathering all his energy, he opened his eyes and focused on a distant star...

At that moment the girl reared up and let out a low animal sound that made him convulse and he boiled out into her, clawing at the ground as the emotions washed over him. Her eyelids snapped open and Mark saw, for the very first time, her eyes.

The other one is this, which is not at all what I typically write. It's also my lowest rated story on Lit.

 

[PaperAutumn]

The only straight story I've written was one about a housewife in the 50s who is married to a man, but she's a lesbian. Though this man is her soulmate and they do love each other like crazy. They do a lot of genderfucking though, so I guess it's not a purely hetero thing.

At any rate, it's hard for me. It's the old adage of "write what you know". I only know lesbian sex.