Welcome Back Carter.

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Thinking about the pirate situation near Somalia, I'm wondering why Navy Seals havent assassinated the pirates in the middle of the night. The hostage actually jumped overboard at night, and there wasnt a SEAL anywhere near.

WLECOME BACK, CARTER!

Wasnt that a tv series with John Travolta

 

[SeaCat]

Thinking about the pirate situation near Somalia, I'm wondering why Navy Seals havent assassinated the pirates in the middle of the night. The hostage actually jumped overboard at night, and there wasnt a SEAL anywhere near.

WLECOME BACK, CARTER!

Wasnt that a tv series with John Travolta

James,

The simple answer is logistics.

The Captain and the Pirates are in an enclosed Life Boat. Because of this any attempt at rescue by SEALs or any other group without putting the captin in further danger would be impossible.

Cat

 

[oggbashan]

Today the French have taken back a French yacht from the Somali pirates. One of the hostages was killed in the shoot-out.

Og

 

[jomar]

Thinking about the pirate situation near Somalia, I'm wondering why Navy Seals havent assassinated the pirates in the middle of the night. The hostage actually jumped overboard at night, and there wasnt a SEAL anywhere near.

WLECOME BACK, CARTER!

Wasnt that a tv series with John Travolta

With all the books out you would think they'd be lurking below the lifeboat waiting for the green light. Sick Marcinko on them.

It was 'Cotter."

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

CAT

Naah, killing the pirates would be easy work if you think about it. You gotta think outside the boat.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

JOMAR

I have some experiences with lifeboats and injuring assholes inside the boats.

You need nothing more complicated than a common stethoscope and a pistol.

 

[jomar]

JOMAR

I have some experiences with lifeboats and injuring assholes inside the boats.

You need nothing more complicated than a common stethoscope and a pistol.

No doubt. But the world's watching this one and we want a Scully outcome.

 

[Katyusha]

No doubt. But the world's watching this one and we want a Scully outcome.

I was trying to explain that to a friend today...he thought the SEALs should cut their way into the boat from the bottom, get the captain out and then kill all the pirates.

 

[SeaCat]

I was trying to explain that to a friend today...he thought the SEALs should cut their way into the boat from the bottom, get the captain out and then kill all the pirates.

LOLOL

If only it was that easy.

Okay while I am not a SEAL and am not dissing the SEAL's the problem breaks down into several parts. (I have played this in one way or another too many times in the past. Such is real life.)

Getting to the boat. The Lifeboat is a 28 foot long vessel floating without power in the middle of the damned ocean. Getting to it is the first parrt of the problem. Now hitting a specific target that is 28 feet long and maybe 6 feet wide on land is not easy. Hitting it while swimming underwater is truly not an easy task. (I know this haveing done plenty of orienteering as well as having been a SCUBA Diver for many years.) If there are currents or low visibility you can say it is damned near impossible.

Next is getting into the boat. This boat is designed to deal with heavy seas. It's hull and covering are not thin cloth. They are thick and strong Fiberglass or worse, steel. The entire boat is enclosed. There are only two entrances. (One in the side and one in the stern.) You can get through with either explosives or by cutting through. The explosives leave you with the possibility of injuring or killing the captain. Cutting through takes time and makes noise.

Also how do you get into the boat with overwhelming firepower and manpower?

Yes the books and stories by people like MArcinko make it sound easy but it isn't. Not in a situation like this.

There are times when you just have to sit back and let the situation play itself out unti you can hit, this is one of them.

Cat

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

KATYUSHA
I gave you the answer, dear. Swim to the boat, use a sthethoscope or whatever to locate each pirate, then shoot them through the fiberglass. It isnt that thick.

The Navy is stalling, so my guess is Obama is nervous.

 

[JagFarlane]

SeaCat brings up some good points. Another point brought up by one of the news articles includes the fact that the ports have been shut to minimize the chance of snipers.

Also to be noted, the pirates are in the midst of bringing in backup. Other stolen ships have come to the area to assist their companions. In response, the US is sending over a guided missile cruiser and an amphibious assault ship. If it came down to the SEALs or whoever going in, turns out the LHD is a much better platform for them to work from.

 

[sr71plt]

CAT

You gotta think outside the boat.

The problem is getting into the boat, isn't it?--without getting the captain killed. What's the hurry. They aren't going anywhere until they lose either way. And the longer their mother ships hang around the better fix we get on them too.

 

[sr71plt]

Also to be noted, the pirates are in the midst of bringing in backup. Other stolen ships have come to the area to assist their companions. In response, the US is sending over a guided missile cruiser and an amphibious assault ship. If it came down to the SEALs or whoever going in, turns out the LHD is a much better platform for them to work from.

Providing a good opportunity for taking them out too.

 

[sr71plt]

use a sthethoscope or whatever

Oh god almighty how cute!

And to think we don't have you and Amicus out there directing operations.

 

[Liar]

I'm really not sure what the pirates in that litte boaty are thinking.

There is no way for them to get away. They are toast. If they kill the capn', they are crisp toast. What magic option are they waiting for?

 

[JagFarlane]

I'm really not sure what the pirates in that litte boaty are thinking.

There is no way for them to get away. They are toast. If they kill the capn', they are crisp toast. What magic option are they waiting for?

Panic induces interesting events. Turns out the takeover didn't work for them. The captain locked the crew up in one room in order to prevent the pirates from capturing his crew, then turned himself over to the pirates in order to protect his crew. This all probably happened in mere minutes, thus the pirates took what they felt was the best option, to take the captain on the lifeboat [that can support 34 people for up to 10 days with its supplies] and attempt to ransom him.

 

[JagFarlane]

Providing a good opportunity for taking them out too.

mhmmmm

 

[sr71plt]

I'm really not sure what the pirates in that litte boaty are thinking.

There is no way for them to get away. They are toast. If they kill the capn', they are crisp toast. What magic option are they waiting for?

That's just it. They don't have options (and Somali pirates aren't exactly philosphy PhDs). I can certainly understand that in their position, they see giving up as less of an option (in their world, life is cheap) than just holding on to the one card they have and hoping something works out in their favor. (you'd be surprised what folks in the Middle East think an American life is worth--having been in the plans of more than one snatch myself when I lived there, I remember thinking "hey what?" on what anyone expected to get by kidnapping me.)

My guess, unfortunately, is that they even will kill the captain in frustration before giving up (assuming he hasn't already died from being shot in the water when he tried to escape).

 

[jomar]

LOLOL...
Yes the books and stories by people like MArcinko make it sound easy but it isn't. Not in a situation like this.

There are times when you just have to sit back and let the situation play itself out unti you can hit, this is one of them.

Cat

I was kidding about Marcinko. Sorry it wasn't clear. But I don't doubt that Seals say they could go in a take care of business and get the captain out.

This has become a political issue though. I don't think Obama is afraid at all - I'd say he's managing the situation with an eye on global issues.

 

[jomar]

...

My guess, unfortunately, is that they even will kill the captain in frustration before giving up (assuming he hasn't already died from being shot in the water when he tried to escape).

That's my worry too.

 

[amicus]

Some excellent posts here along with the usual chaff...

I think one can assume that Navy SEALS have been on scene since the Bainbridge arrived. If not originally of the ships compliment, they would have been airlifted and dropped before the Cruiser arrived on scene.

Secondly, long before the SEALS came on scene, they would have several contingency plans worked out on how to deal with the Lifeboat and its occupants.

Third, they can navigate underwater for a great distance to remain unobserved, especially at night.

I would conclude that the operation could have been conducted anytime in the past 24 hours.

Thus, it can be assumed to be a 'political consideration', that has postponed or halted any effort to conduct the rescue.

Oh, and someone mentioned the 'possibility' that the Captain was wounded while attempting escape...is there any documentation of that? I have been following closely and not heard that.

Perhaps a rapid, lethal attack by an US Navy team, would confirm the' arrogance' of America by acting unilaterally without consultation and agreement from other nations?

When someone talks about 'the world's navies', congregating in the area to quell piracy, just what other nations do you have in mind? Aside from the Brits, maybe the Australians and French, and well maybe the Israeli's, but then, that would place those nations, all of them, in a similar, anti Islam position now, wouldn't it?

Be interesting to see how this resolves.

Amicus...

 

[Dragonlipz]

KATYUSHA
I gave you the answer, dear. Swim to the boat, use a sthethoscope or whatever to locate each pirate, then shoot them through the fiberglass. It isnt that thick.

The Navy is stalling, so my guess is Obama is nervous.

What is a sthethoscope? It must be sumpin' mos' powaful, yassuh, massa JBJ, yassuh.....

It'll take more that a few raghead thugs to make Obama nervous. If he can face down Hillary, my money is on him.......

 

[freshface]

When someone talks about 'the world's navies', congregating in the area to quell piracy, just what other nations do you have in mind? Aside from the Brits, maybe the Australians and French, and well maybe the Israeli's, but then, that would place those nations, all of them, in a similar, anti Islam position now, wouldn't it?

Be interesting to see how this resolves.

Amicus...

I'll ignore your armchair admiral fantasies. As for the rest, the Combined Maritime Forces website lists several navies, namely Australia, France, Germany, Italy, Pakistan, Canada, Denmark, Republic of Korea, Turkey, the U.S. and U.K. Oh look, there's two Muslim countries there. How could that be in an anti-Islam task force? A total of twenty countries have contributed ships, personnel, and/or equipment to the Maritime Task Force. Sort of blows that assertion out of the water, doesn't it?

 

[oggbashan]

The decision making should be left to the man on the spot - the captain of the US naval vessel.

He is trained and competent to act without detailed direction from Washington.

What he needs is political support for whatever action he takes.

Og

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Some excellent posts here along with the usual chaff...

I think one can assume that Navy SEALS have been on scene since the Bainbridge arrived. If not originally of the ships compliment, they would have been airlifted and dropped before the Cruiser arrived on scene.

Secondly, long before the SEALS came on scene, they would have several contingency plans worked out on how to deal with the Lifeboat and its occupants.

Third, they can navigate underwater for a great distance to remain unobserved, especially at night.

I would conclude that the operation could have been conducted anytime in the past 24 hours.

Thus, it can be assumed to be a 'political consideration', that has postponed or halted any effort to conduct the rescue.

Oh, and someone mentioned the 'possibility' that the Captain was wounded while attempting escape...is there any documentation of that? I have been following closely and not heard that.

Perhaps a rapid, lethal attack by an US Navy team, would confirm the' arrogance' of America by acting unilaterally without consultation and agreement from other nations?

When someone talks about 'the world's navies', congregating in the area to quell piracy, just what other nations do you have in mind? Aside from the Brits, maybe the Australians and French, and well maybe the Israeli's, but then, that would place those nations, all of them, in a similar, anti Islam position now, wouldn't it?

Be interesting to see how this resolves.

Amicus...

AMICUS
I was a hostage many years ago. A crazy young man walked into the hospital and used a large knife against me. My desk was equipped with a panic button for such occasions. We had plans in place for such events. So I pressed the emergency button, the security staff phoned me, I told them the SECRET WORD, and they acted clueless. After the 6th press of the button, Barney and Gomer wandered down to the ER, stood outside my door, looked at me and shrugged their shoulders. Then they stepped outside and had a smoke.

About an hour later, after I pressed the button a few more times, the SWAT TEAM arrived. They loitered outside smoking and talking on their radios.

An hour later I got totally pissed off with what wasnt happening, and disarmed the man with the knife. Then I restrained him by myself. The SWAT TEAM didnt enter the building until after I took care of the emergency.

They filed a complaint because I called them candy-ass sissies. One of the cops wanted to arrest me for what I said. I looked at him, sneered, and said I'VE SEEN YOU IN ACTION, YOU DONT HAVE THE BALLS TO ARREST ME.

So I know all about how prepared and brave first responders are. They look good at the gym, and like the extra money they get for doing nuthin.