Passion of Mind (Writer stuff, mostly)

[amicus]

That title may not be accurate, the film, with Demi Moore, ended before a question wiggled up front and center.

The question is a bit difficult to form as it involves assumptions, writerly mostly, but with a sound base in reality...

In the film, Demi Moore lives a double life, as a single Literary Agent in a big US city by day, and by night as a woman in France, with two children. It's a chick flick and I have tried to watch it several times and failed to see it through and saw, for the first time, the conclusion this evening while jousting here on the forum.

The question has to do with the female and the actress, who is making love to two men, one at night, one during the day.

As an actress, where does her mind go during the intimate love scenes, with all the kissing and foreplay and the semi nude, in bed together simulation of sexual intercourse?

Does the actress surrender to the physical, heavy breathing arousal of the moment; and how would one, 'act' that, as compared to, 'real life', a lover, a husband...? Or does she go somewhere in her head that I have not a clue about?

And, yes, it is a 'sexist' question. I am a guy, I do the penetrating and the kissing and the touching to arouse. Reciprocation is nice, even appreciated, but not necessary...but I suspect females are wired somewhat differently.

Just curious...

amicus...

 

[sr71plt]

I hear she thinks about liberal causes--and that's enough to get her off.

 

[JamesSD]

As an actress, where does her mind go during the intimate love scenes, with all the kissing and foreplay and the semi nude, in bed together simulation of sexual intercourse?

Does the actress surrender to the physical, heavy breathing arousal of the moment; and how would one, 'act' that, as compared to, 'real life', a lover, a husband...? Or does she go somewhere in her head that I have not a clue about?

The "soft media" loves to quiz celebrities about sex scenes. The consensus is that what looks hot and heavy on screen thanks to clever editing, soft lighting and mood music is frequently much less than when actually being filmed.

For one, while most love scenes do involve a skeleton crew, there will still be lighting, sound, camera, and a director present in the room. There may be hair and make-up as well to make sure the actors and actresses look their best. For a lot of people getting turned on with 4-6 of their co-workers in the room watching them would be a challenge to say the least.

For a true exhibitionist there might be a thrill to that. But for most actors, they're getting paid to do a job. They're worried about how they look, about following the director's instructions. Unlike a real lovemaking session there will be starts and stops, adjustments for camera angles, and extra takes to ensure enough footage.

Some actors and actresses clearly have intesnse on screen chemistry that may override all these factors. But the general consensus of both actors and actresses regarding love scenes? "I just want to get through it".

 

[amicus]

Appreciate the reply, SD, and pretty much agree and of course it is staged and lit and all that, but still...

You can't really fake a deep lingering kiss, at least it would appear that way to me and nipples get erect with an ice cube, I know. Way back when I had a few stage kisses but in that period it was almost chaste, now is all different.

Sally Fields, the actress, in an interview, when asked just how far it really goes during a love scene, answered, "Well, I put a limit on penetration...."

I am suggesting, I guess, that they do get aroused during a love scene, lights and technicians notwithstanding as blood leaves the cognitive functions and rushes to the nether parts.

I am a jealous cuss anyway, get all prickly if someon even looked. I can't really imagine watching a love interest on the big screen without some involvement, dunno....might be just me.

I have a story around somewhere of a seduction that went all the way and when it was over, the lights came up and the soundmen cluttered about and then the couple asked them to leave and did it all over again...chuckles...ah, well...

Thanks again...


amicus...

 

[slyc_willie]

I remember reading an interview or something, maybe just a blurb, about Mickey Rourke and his costar on the set of Wild Orchid. Supposedly, the sex scenes between those two were real. They were even purported to have enjoyed an off-screen romance for a while.

I wonder, Ami, did you start this thread with the intention of questioning the moral values of actors and actresses when it comes to on-camera intimacy? Trying to find a bridge between the justification of "professional" adultery and personal?

Just wondering . . . .

 

[amicus]

Hmmm...slyc, good question. I do have ulterior motives, doesn't everyone, but not particularly the one you pointed out.

There was recently a biography on Julia Roberts and the dozen or so men she lived with early in her Hollywood career. I came away the the bio thinking, what a slut she was and yet she appears both naive and innocent on screen and it reminded me of how foolish men can be.))

Hollywood romantic affairs have always been a dime a dozen and it does lead me to wonder if the energy it takes to adopt another personality on screen, over and over again, might confuse an actress as to whom she really was in real life.

I will dig myself in even deeper here, but I know that going in. I suggest that men, when they do 'fall in love', do so, ahm, in a different way that women do. I think that the old fashioned, so they tell me, concept of a woman becoming the personal, exclusive, 'property' of a man is an emotion seldom shared by women.

I posit that not as a weakness or a female trait I find objectionable, I rather consider 'nature' had a hand in it as those silly males go off and get themselves killed off with amazing regularity.

And I want to keep it 'writerly' if possible, as I dabble in love and romance and try to plumb the depths of the male/female romantic relationship. I also write from the female point of view very often and I just can't be told enough that I do, in fact, portray the female accurately. (Writer's need the ego stroked)

Anyway...as I was watching Demi Moore perform, with one and then the other male, with equal intensity and passion, it prompted the vaguely identified question in my mind.

Hope that suffices that this is not intended as a purely political excursion. Ah, a rerun of "The West Wing" is just beginning...have a pleasant evening.

Amicus...

 

[neonlyte]

In the film, Demi Moore lives a double life, as a single Literary Agent in a big US city by day, and by night as a woman in France, with two children. It's a chick flick and I have tried to watch it several times and failed to see it through and saw, for the first time, the conclusion this evening while jousting here on the forum.

amicus...

Presumably, this was when Concord still flew Even so, I'm surprised she still had the energy... perhaps Concord was the titillation? Penetrating the sky at twice the speed of sound... it's got to be a bit of a turn-on first time around.

I don't think acting the role is all that difficult, after all, that's what she does for a living. One might imagine the actress focusing upon a different partner to engender the realism, though I somehow doubt that as many partners fake arousal on a regular basis... it goes with the job. As for performing for the Director and technicians, that only takes a certain mind-set and I imagine actresses and actors already have an established mind-set to perform. Adding sex is a challenge and it's not that difficult to imagine some individuals getting off on the challenge. Most good porn movies demonstrate it's possible.

BTW - I'm not sure calling JR a slut on a public forum is wise, she is a member after all, and it quite clearly says, in her membership, she's a 'virgin'. As you know, Ami, posters never lie.

 

[Guest]

Ami is just trying to find another thing to complain about.

You know, how bad it is that women have independent lives and all.

And perhaps, to continue to demean women by comparing the manner in which we enjoy sex compared to men.

Done taking shots politically now, ami? Gonna start slamming the womenfolk now?

Damn liberals, anyway. You just can't trust us, can you?

 

[cloudy]

Ami is just trying to find another thing to complain about.

You know, how bad it is that women have independent lives and all.

And perhaps, to continue to demean women by comparing the manner in which we enjoy sex compared to men.

Done taking shots politically now, ami? Gonna start slamming the womenfolk now?

Damn liberals, anyway. You just can't trust us, can you?

Damn...he nags worse than any woman ever could. No wonder he's alone.

 

[Guest]

Damn...he nags worse than any woman ever could. No wonder he's alone.

Well, I don't see as nagging as much as whining.

 

[Liar]

As an actress, where does her mind go during the intimate love scenes, with all the kissing and foreplay and the semi nude, in bed together simulation of sexual intercourse?

Does the actress surrender to the physical, heavy breathing arousal of the moment; and how would one, 'act' that, as compared to, 'real life', a lover, a husband...? Or does she go somewhere in her head that I have not a clue about?

It's one of those things that actors and acresses alike often gets asked about it interviews, when they are in movies with steamy sex scenes. The answer seems to be that it's mostly dull and boring, meticulously choreographed, and a lot of the flow and "magic" of the scenes are born from creative cutting.

Although I'm sure there are exceptions,m that's probably the most common, and pretty un-romantic answer.

 

[sr71plt]

Did cha know that John Wayne got his break in Hollywood by being Mae West's boy toy? Just a thought for all you reactionary cowboys out there.

 

[Liar]

Did cha know that John Wayne got his break in Hollywood by being Mae West's boy toy?

I can think of worse things to be.

 

[amicus]

Ah, well, hell, I guess. I wonder if Cloudy and Sweets will ever get over being always mad at men?

It's not a big thing anyway, suffice it to say that I watch reruns of "The West Wing" a couple nights a week, unfortunately it is on 'Bravo' channel and the promo's would gag a maggot.

I have a sympathy if not respect, for women who juggle full time work, a family a home, relatives, holidays, kids projects and a husband or lover and wonder where life has passed them by.

That was a little, what the film with Demi Moore was about, just a fringe bit, with one professional woman, one more earthy type, rather a morality play, in one sense about the different facets of a woman, modern and old fashioned.

Nevermind...


Ami

 

[slyc_willie]

I have a sympathy if not respect, for women who juggle full time work, a family a home, relatives, holidays, kids projects and a husband or lover and wonder where life has passed them by.


Ami

I wouldn't think they feel they have lost anything, Ami. Quite a bit has changed since you were my age, after all. That's not an attack, you know, just an observation.

The love of my life is exactly what you just described, and true, she often feels overwhelmed by the numerous facets of her life. I am always trying to help her out with whatever projects she has, while at the same time trying to help her relax.

This world we live in has become increasingly more stressful for all around -- men, women, and children -- and I despise a good part of that. Hell, part of me wishes there were no such things as computers, cell phones, or even automobiles. But there's no getting over that. I only hope, within our lifetime, we see an equilibrium between the always-busy modern world and the need for down time.

 

[amicus]

I should be courteous and polite, smiles, I suppose and hold my tongue or not respond, but, then, that wouldn't be me, now would it?

I think the social experimentations that have been in progress for almost half a century now, will be as disastrous as war and the aftermath was for Europe and Asia, especially Korea as the peninsula was occupied by the Japanese and as an historian said, the hatred will only die when a generation passes.

There was a time in the early 50's when an American would not even walk close to a Volkswagen and glare at a store that sold camera's made in Japan.

That is my generation, for what that is worth. To say I understand the roots of this new generation, actually a couple of them, would be stretching a point, I suppose, and only understood by someone who shared an equal or similar upbringing as did I.

It may well be just the changing times, as so many have changed before, but, I rather think not; the changes are just too deep and too wide to be accommodated by history and will be seen, I think, as an aberration, a glitch in the normative progress of humankind.

As I am as so vocal on the subject, you may think it is only me, but just beneath the surface of society, more than half see the 30 million babies aborted as a sin worse than the holocaust. Millions pray forgiveness every day in churches from coast to coast.

They hear that almost half of all children will never know their father and it saddens them.

I think without Xanax and a dozen other anti depressants, that half the women in the rat race would scream and run wildly away from what most see as just a way of life.

I think the drastic upsurge in gay and lesbian couples attests to the alienation of an entire generation suffering from lack of gender identification.

I do not intend or write what I do to be hurtful to anyone and almost anywhere else than this forum, most of what I say would be accepted as worthy of discussion.

It is just the way I see things and how I interpret them, that it is different than how you or most here perceives them and if one does not speak of that which one perceives, well, that is up to each to decide.

I should just delete this and walk away as I know it will not be taken as intended, an expression that is my own regardless of how it is accepted.

If you choose to think it is all a ploy for whatever reason, so much the better, then you will not hear what I say and perhaps that is for the best.


Amicus...

 

[cloudy]

Ah, well, hell, I guess. I wonder if Cloudy and Sweets will ever get over being always mad at men?

What ever made you think either one of us is "mad at men"?

I adore men, in general...especially the ones that adore women in return - and I'm absolutely not referring to sex.

Men like you, men that have such fragile egos that they can't handle a smart, competent, individualistic woman, just make me tired.

 

[Pure]

summary

http://www.fandango.com/passionofmind_v187109/summary


Demi Moore stars in this unusual psychological drama about two women caught between reality and imagination. Marie (Moore) is an American widow trying to raise two children under difficult circumstances in a small town in France. Marty (also played by Moore) is a successful businesswoman in New York City who wants to leave her busy life and lead a quieter existence in Europe.

But Marty is just a product of Marie's imagination -- or at least that's what Marie thinks. Marty, on the other hand, is convinced that Marie is just someone she dreamed up. Who is right? Or are both of them wrong? And where does it leave the men in their lives (Stellan Skarsgard and William Fichtner)? Passion of Mind was the first English-language film from French director Alain Berliner, best known for the arthouse success Ma Vie en Rose. ~ Mark Deming, All Movie Guide

 

[Guest]

I love men.

Especially strong and competent and loving men.

Ami, why are you so afraid of strong women?

 

[cloudy]

I love men.

Especially strong and competent and loving men.

Ami, why are you so afraid of strong women?

Easy...because he's not a strong man.

 

[Guest]

Ami, I just read your first post again.

I'm curious.

What approach do you use on your other forums? You know, the forums where you pretend to be liberal and yank chains in the opposite way?

You just scour the news for stories, don't you? Liberal and conservative? You pore over the juicy tidbits you feel will incite riots back on your duo lib and con forums.

Most of the time I just ignore you. You don't even get my ire up any more. These days, it just isn't worth the hassle.

But I think, finally, I'm done with being "played" by you.

This thread, in particular, is so very transparent. And your support of the wmrs character, even though you yourself have argued against many of the things she's said.

I'm done playing. You'll just have to play with yourself.

 

[cloudy]

You'll just have to play with yourself.

He's obviously had years of experience at that.

 

[amicus]

Gee Whiz, ladies, I wasn't accusing you of 'penis envy', but I do wonder what happened to all the wonderful flowing dresses of the earthy hippy girls a way back when.

Why has it become such a verboten, touchy subject to even discuss the nature of feminity?

You've got half the males on this forum frightened to even speak in terms that the might prefer the soft, good smelling girl who pays attention to her looks and is actually openly compassionate for kittens and other small things.

It don't suppose it is quite as extreme as I portray it, that women are an entirely different species and beyond rational comprehension by the male mind, but damned close.

Just why the concept of complimentary outlooks and skills is a threat to your perception of natures definition of male and female, also confounds me.

Wull a real woman please stand and be counted?





amicus

 

[Dragonlipz]

I love men.

Especially strong and competent and loving men.

Ami, why are you so afraid of strong women?

Because they're real...

 

[amicus]

Ami, I just read your first post again.

I'm curious.

What approach do you use on your other forums? You know, the forums where you pretend to be liberal and yank chains in the opposite way?

You just scour the news for stories, don't you? Liberal and conservative? You pore over the juicy tidbits you feel will incite riots back on your duo lib and con forums.

Most of the time I just ignore you. You don't even get my ire up any more. These days, it just isn't worth the hassle.

But I think, finally, I'm done with being "played" by you.

This thread, in particular, is so very transparent. And your support of the wmrs character, even though you yourself have argued against many of the things she's said.

I also enjoy films and like to share my thoughts about them; I regularly email my kids about films I think they might enjoy. The last was just a few days ago, "Lover's of the Arctic Circle", a Spanish film with English subtitles, that is very, 'European' in style and direction, very artsy fartsy kinda stuff.

Being an entrenched male of the, 'type A' sort, I have always had a curiosity concerning what makes a female tick.

Passion of Mind, the film that brought forth this thread, raised a sort of curious question about actresses performing an intimate love scene and there were some good responses in addition to the usual nonsense from the feminazi's.

Had the question been asked of a male, I could have answered it, at least from my pov, and found it interesting to muse over.

A pity you didn't take the question as legitimate.

Amicus...




I'm done playing. You'll just have to play with yourself.

~~~

Sweets...since you are not reading or commenting anymore, this may be a waste of time...but....I got some to waste right now...

I had a top rated radio talk show some years back and I enjoyed the job very much. The reason it was a popular show was that I did indeed, scan all the news I could for the most interesting/compelling/controversial subjects and issues I could find. People seemed to love the variety and they paid me well.

So, it is in part, theatre, yes, and I enjoy it. I also enjoy being challenged and will do my utmost, time permitting, to answer the challenge, by providing documentary confirmation of my commentary.