Iowa..... Rocks!!

[Anniejustagirl]

Today the Iowa Supreme Court ruled in a unanimous decision that committed gay and lesbian couples must be allowed to marry in Iowa.

WOW!!!!

Now, the work really begins.... talking to every neighbor, friend and disagreeing fellow human alike to help Iowa keep Marriage Equality.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Today the Iowa Supreme Court ruled in a unanimous decision that committed gay and lesbian couples must be allowed to marry in Iowa.

WOW!!!!

Now, the work really begins.... talking to every neighbor, friend and disagreeing fellow human alike to help Iowa keep Marriage Equality.

EXACTLY. Don't make the same mistake we made in California. These anti-gay people HATE us and will pour millions and millions of dollars into the campaign (which is inevitable) to implement a State Constitutional amendment. It is a major victory and deserves to be celebrated, but it ain't the war.

The fundie gay haters need to be beaten back with donations, public out reach and by living breathing examples that gay marriage is beneficial to the common good, not a sign of the end days. They also need to be called fucking two-faced liars when they spout their anti-gay propaganda. That is where we fell down in California. We should have been yelling the truth back just as loudly as they screamed their hate.

 

[gloriann]

I'm so happy for Iowa, truly. It is astounding to me that Iowa legalized it before California.

 

[Etoile]

A dear friend of mine told me years ago that Iowa is a lot more liberal than people realize. She was right! She is so proud right now. It's so wonderful that slowly but surely it's coming across the nation!!

 

[Safe_Bet]

I'm so happy for Iowa, truly. It is astounding to me that Iowa legalized it before California.

In hindsight, I'm not surprised about California. With the exception of certain areas of open mindedness there is a LOT of conservatism in this state (as is demonstrated by our choice of Governors over the years). That we knew about and worked to offset.

Where we screwed up was not reaching out to the Black and Hispanic communities who went out in mass to vote for Obama and who listened to their preachers that they should vote for Prop 8 while they were there. Add in the intimidation and propaganda funded by the fundies and the Mormons and we lost.

We need to remember this lesson well.

 

[Netzach]

A dear friend of mine told me years ago that Iowa is a lot more liberal than people realize. She was right! She is so proud right now. It's so wonderful that slowly but surely it's coming across the nation!!

I keep telling people this and no one believes me.


Only it's not liberal in the NYC/DC kind of sense. It's a different Midwestern, just leave us alone Gov't until you actually have to do something important libertarianism-tinged thing. In your face CA!

You know what's going to happen, right?

Somewhere the Jeebus freaks are going to push this to the Supreme Court and lose. It's just that simple.

 

[Netzach]

Where we screwed up was not reaching out to the Black and Hispanic communities who went out in mass to vote for Obama and who listened to their preachers that they should vote for Prop 8 while they were there. Add in the intimidation and propaganda funded by the fundies and the Mormons and we lost.

We need to remember this lesson well.

The mainstream of the GLBT movement does a crap job of outreach to *gay* people of color, so I think it's going to take some work. And the reaction of blaming the community of color almost exclusively rolled that job back about a decade in 2 days, IMO.

 

[Powertone]

EXACTLY. Don't make the same mistake we made in California. These anti-gay people HATE us and will pour millions and millions of dollars into the campaign (which is inevitable) to implement a State Constitutional amendment. It is a major victory and deserves to be celebrated, but it ain't the war.

The fundie gay haters need to be beaten back with donations, public out reach and by living breathing examples that gay marriage is beneficial to the common good, not a sign of the end days. They also need to be called fucking two-faced liars when they spout their anti-gay propaganda. That is where we fell down in California. We should have been yelling the truth back just as loudly as they screamed their hate.

yeah...this is the strategy...label anyone who doesn't support gay marriage as a homophobic hate mongering 2 faced liar...that'll change their minds in a jiffy on the matter.

 

[Netzach]

yeah...this is the strategy...label anyone who doesn't support gay marriage as a homophobic hate mongering 2 faced liar...that'll change their minds in a jiffy on the matter.

Their minds do not HAVE to be changed. Because there is no legally or constitutionally compelling reason to tell two adults who can and can't get their money, who can and can't share a house, who can and can't be on an insurance policy if two adults in one household is an acceptable standard.

This isn't a popularity contest, it's the constitution and declaration in action.

 

[alaskabibear]

A dear friend of mine told me years ago that Iowa is a lot more liberal than people realize. She was right! She is so proud right now. It's so wonderful that slowly but surely it's coming across the nation!!

So, I think we should all move to Iowa and make it the most progressive and prosperous state in the union..anyone wann'a join me?

The mainstream of the GLBT movement does a crap job of outreach to *gay* people of color, so I think it's going to take some work. And the reaction of blaming the community of color almost exclusively rolled that job back about a decade in 2 days, IMO.

Actually, I sometimes think they do a crap job of reaching out to anyone...take the huge bisexual community as an example. It seems to me that no real effort has been made to include them. In fact it often seems that just the opposite is the case with derogatory comments and shunning bi's as "wann'a be gays w/o the courage". From my perspective it appears that the mainstream of the "GLBT movement" is more of a "gay movement" and that itself has often been hijacked by the most extreme element.

yeah...this is the strategy...label anyone who doesn't support gay marriage as a homophobic hate mongering 2 faced liar...that'll change their minds in a jiffy on the matter.

Case in point about alienation through poor word choices.

Their minds do not HAVE to be changed. Because there is no legally or constitutionally compelling reason to tell two adults who can and can't get their money, who can and can't share a house, who can and can't be on an insurance policy if two adults in one household is an acceptable standard.

This isn't a popularity contest, it's the constitution and declaration in action.

True enough. But the Judiciary branch is not always the unbiased protector of civil rights that it was intended to be. IMO, the cause would move forward faster in both legislative and judicial branches IF minds were changed. And more importantly, when gay rights do become a reality, they would be integrated into society in a more harmonious way IF the GLBT "movement" would always take the high road and build our case on logical argument as opposed to confrontation. In other words; We should try and change minds even though we shouldn't have to based on Constitutional rights. I like President Obama's approach; We may not all agree on an issue, but that doesn't mean we have to get nasty... Or said another way: You always catch more flies with honey instead of vinegar..

But people being people, I don't expect a lot of folks on either side to follow many high roads and we'll just have to see how ugly it all gets before it's over.

 

[Powertone]

This isn't a popularity contest, it's the constitution and declaration in action.

it's amazing the stuff thats hidden in the constitution ain't it?
surely the framers intended homosexuals to marry.
what a relief that centuries later this nugget was found.

thanks for interpreting and investigating the constitution for us straights...

 

[Powertone]

Case in point about alienation through poor word choices.

and those poor word choices were....what?
your hatred comes shining thru.

 

[Netzach]

it's amazing the stuff thats hidden in the constitution ain't it?
surely the framers intended homosexuals to marry.
what a relief that centuries later this nugget was found.

thanks for interpreting and investigating the constitution for us straights...

When you show me the part where it says anything at all about them, I'll change my mind. It does however have an equal protection clause and the declaration covers property rights pretty high up the ladder. If I want to split my earnings with my dog, how is that a problem? If I want to give my next door neighbor custody of my children in the case of my demise, what's the big deal?

Here we essentially have laws forbidding two adults from entering into financial and legal contract. Which is what marriage is. Period. As evidenced by "the bachelor".

 

[Etoile]

it's amazing the stuff thats hidden in the constitution ain't it?
surely the framers intended homosexuals to marry.
what a relief that centuries later this nugget was found.

thanks for interpreting and investigating the constitution for us straights...

Marriage isn't in the Constitution at all. Not gay marriage, not straight marriage. No marriage in the Constitution.
http://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.html#marr

If you plan to be an opponent of gay marriage on this board, be prepared to deal with people who have well-prepared arguments supporting it.

 

[alaskabibear]

and those poor word choices were....what?
your hatred comes shining thru.

First, let me assure you that I have no hatred toward anyone. The intent of my comment was that it was you who was alienated by the harsh words of Safe_Bet whom you quoted. I'm not sure if that was clear as I don't really understand the comment you made above... it seems as if I may have inadvertently offended you by not being clearer in my own short comment. However, let me be clear now; the type of comments made by Safe_Bet about calling others "fucking two faced liars" do nothing to enlighten others to the legitimate rights of homosexuals nor do they advance the peace and harmony we all desire in our society. They only fan the flames of hate higher and higher until it erupts into violence.

But since you do have an opinion in this, I would encourage you to more fully explain why you believe granting these rights to homosexual couples who want them would be;
1. Against what the Constitution guarantees for all
2. What do you fear might be the adverse results of such rights being granted

If you do have valid reasons and arguments as to why homosexuals should not be allowed to marry, it would be most beneficial to hear them, debate them and try to learn from one another in the process.

 

[Safe_Bet]

You can be as freaking "Rodney King" as you want but we will NEVER "just get along". "The facts of the matter are there are people who hate us . They hated us before, hate us now and will hate us well into the future - REGARDLESS of how "compliant" we could try to be. Not hating them doesn't change a thing. Action changes things - not the same old stale shit from the "gay elders" who still believe that we should just be quiet and "get along".

Sorry, dude, but there is a valid place for righteous anger. The anger that comes from having to explain to my kids why people get to vote on whether their mommy and pappi can really be married. The anger that comes from having to jump through flaming hoops because some fucking fundie hospital security guard doesn't believe a power of attorney and wouldn't let me and my children visit my spouse in the hospital.

Answer this for me: If I DON'T "alienate" the asshats, does that mean they'll eventually say "Gee, I no longer am going to believe my life long biases and, gosh darn it, the queers SHOULD get to marry!"

The only hope we EVER have of getting our rights as human beings and as American citizens is through the Judiciary. If the current ones don't give it to us, then we elect different people who will name ones that will. I for one am not going to kiss peoples asses in the far fetched hope that they will ultimately give me what I should always have had anyway. I don't give a shit if they like me... just give me BACK what is rightfully mine.

As for the "fucking two faced liars"... Follow the link. Six Big Lies THEY FUCKING LIED...

Am I angry, fucking a Skippy. Do I think people who are capable of saying that my children are "abominations" suck, damn right. Does it bother me that you tell me that I should "play nice" so the straight people will "like me better" Hell, yeah.

Bottom line:

"You're never given power.
You have to TAKE IT!"
- Harvey Milk

 

[Netzach]

You can be as freaking "Rodney King" as you want but we will NEVER "just get along". "The facts of the matter are there are people who hate us . They hated us before, hate us now and will hate us well into the future - REGARDLESS of how "compliant" we could try to be. Not hating them doesn't change a thing. Action changes things - not the same old stale shit from the "gay elders" who still believe that we should just be quiet and "get along".

Sorry, dude, but there is a valid place for righteous anger. The anger that comes from having to explain to my kids why people get to vote on whether their mommy and pappi can really be married. The anger that comes from having to jump through flaming hoops because some fucking fundie hospital security guard doesn't believe a power of attorney and wouldn't let me and my children visit my spouse in the hospital.

Answer this for me: If I DON'T "alienate" the asshats, does that mean they'll eventually say "Gee, I no longer am going to believe my life long biases and, gosh darn it, the queers SHOULD get to marry!"

The only hope we EVER have of getting our rights as human beings and as American citizens is through the Judiciary. If the current ones don't give it to us, then we elect different people who will name ones that will. I for one am not going to kiss peoples asses in the far fetched hope that they will ultimately give me what I should always have had anyway. I don't give a shit if they like me... just give me BACK what is rightfully mine.

As for the "fucking two faced liars"... Follow the link. Six Big Lies THEY FUCKING LIED...

Am I angry, fucking a Skippy. Do I think people who are capable of saying that my children are "abominations" suck, damn right. Does it bother me that you tell me that I should "play nice" so the straight people will "like me better" Hell, yeah.

Bottom line:

"You're never given power.
You have to TAKE IT!"
- Harvey Milk

I can't agree with you more. I think cool logical appeal AND throwing things are the only way anyone ever got anything. Both.

 

[playwithlezli]

First, let me assure you that I have no hatred toward anyone. The intent of my comment was that it was you who was alienated by the harsh words of Safe_Bet whom you quoted. I'm not sure if that was clear as I don't really understand the comment you made above... it seems as if I may have inadvertently offended you by not being clearer in my own short comment. However, let me be clear now; the type of comments made by Safe_Bet about calling others "fucking two faced liars" do nothing to enlighten others to the legitimate rights of homosexuals nor do they advance the peace and harmony we all desire in our society. They only fan the flames of hate higher and higher until it erupts into violence.

But since you do have an opinion in this, I would encourage you to more fully explain why you believe granting these rights to homosexual couples who want them would be;
1. Against what the Constitution guarantees for all
2. What do you fear might be the adverse results of such rights being granted

If you do have valid reasons and arguments as to why homosexuals should not be allowed to marry, it would be most beneficial to hear them, debate them and try to learn from one another in the process.

Well said bibear.

 

[alaskabibear]

.....The only hope we EVER have of getting our rights as human beings and as American citizens is through the Judiciary. If the current ones don't give it to us, then we elect different people who will name ones that will. I for one am not going to kiss peoples asses in the far fetched hope that they will ultimately give me what I should always have had anyway. I don't give a shit if they like me... just give me BACK what is rightfully mine....

I'll just make a quick comment. (I deleted the rant and kept in the only thing that has much relevance);
Anyway, as you say above; "...The only hope we ever have of getting our rights...is through the Judiciary. If the current ones don't give it to us, then we elect different people who will name ones that will..." (the last couple of sentences of the quoted paragraph contradict the ones about the judiciary being the source of these rights, so in context they make no sense and don't need any response as they too seem more of a rant of rage than anything constructive)

So, if this is true about the Judiciary being the final arbitrator of rights, and I agree with you that it probably is, then what purpose at all would getting angry at other average citizens accomplish? Since it's only the Judiciary that might be able to rise above the fray and apply the Constitution and other founding documents to this issue then alienating and/or attacking other people who might disagree with you serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever. None-Zip-Nada. Your anger only causes an equal but opposite force working against you.

Now don't get me wrong; I'm not trying to convince you or convert you to my opinion that trying to get along with others in this world is 99% of the time the best option for conflict resolution. In fact, from what I have see here of your public behavior I would have to conclude that you have a very real anger problem. Perhaps that is why you run afoul of so many people in your life, I don't know. But I would lay money on this; Even when the rights you so fervently desire are made a reality, you will still be trapped in your hate and anger. If you think just because the Supreme Court might one day acknowledge these rights and on that day all of your problems with other people will just go away - well you might want to look at the African American history. Laws don't much influence the way people think and believe, we do this by our actions and words. All I can say is that I'm sorry for you and your family... and wish you all the best. (and with that, let us cease our discussion...I have found over time that to try to have a meaningful dialog with an angry person is unfruitful at best)

 

[Safe_Bet]

I'll just make a quick comment. (I deleted the rant and kept in the only thing that has much relevance);
Anyway, as you say above; "...The only hope we ever have of getting our rights...is through the Judiciary. If the current ones don't give it to us, then we elect different people who will name ones that will..." (the last couple of sentences of the quoted paragraph contradict the ones about the judiciary being the source of these rights, so in context they make no sense and don't need any response as they too seem more of a rant of rage than anything constructive)

So, if this is true about the Judiciary being the final arbitrator of rights, and I agree with you that it probably is, then what purpose at all would getting angry at other average citizens accomplish? Since it's only the Judiciary that might be able to rise above the fray and apply the Constitution and other founding documents to this issue then alienating and/or attacking other people who might disagree with you serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever. None-Zip-Nada. Your anger only causes an equal but opposite force working against you.

Now don't get me wrong; I'm not trying to convince you or convert you to my opinion that trying to get along with others in this world is 99% of the time the best option for conflict resolution. In fact, from what I have see here of your public behavior I would have to conclude that you have a very real anger problem. Perhaps that is why you run afoul of so many people in your life, I don't know. But I would lay money on this; Even when the rights you so fervently desire are made a reality, you will still be trapped in your hate and anger. If you think just because the Supreme Court might one day acknowledge these rights and on that day all of your problems with other people will just go away - well you might want to look at the African American history. Laws don't much influence the way people think and believe, we do this by our actions and words. All I can say is that I'm sorry for you and your family... and wish you all the best. (and with that, let us cease our discussion...I have found over time that to try to have a meaningful dialog with an angry person is unfruitful at best)

Condescend much? You have NO fucking idea who I am or what my life is like. But I note that that certainly doesn't stop you from trying to attack me personally for it.

You are correct about the meaningful dialog, however. Between your unfounded snide little insults directed at me personally, as opposed to addressing the subject of the posting, and your esposing of your PERSONAL beliefs as facts we got nothing to talk about.

P.S. Say high to Sarah for me at you next cabinet meeting...)

 

[Safe_Bet]

the type of comments made by Safe_Bet about calling others "fucking two faced liars" do nothing to enlighten others to the legitimate rights of homosexuals nor do they advance the peace and harmony we all desire in our society. They only fan the flames of hate higher and higher until it erupts into violence....

I just reread this and I find this VERY offensive so I want to make sure that you MEAN what I think you mean...

Are you saying that because we have the unmitigated gall to demand our rights as human beings that we will CAUSE the violence? So in other words, Matthew Shepard was "just asking for it?"

If that is what you mean, then you are spouting the same fucked up thinking that blames women for rape - after all, "they were just asking for it."

 

[John Doe]

I'm so happy for Iowa, truly. It is astounding to me that Iowa legalized it before California.

They didn't. The state court ruled that gay marriage was legal, then the voters effectively reversed it.

 

[John Doe]

Their minds do not HAVE to be changed. Because there is no legally or constitutionally compelling reason to tell two adults who can and can't get their money, who can and can't share a house, who can and can't be on an insurance policy if two adults in one household is an acceptable standard.

This isn't a popularity contest, it's the constitution and declaration in action.

Yes and no. The Constitution of the United States does not address marriage at all while some state constitutions do.

The Declaration of Independence is merely a statement of intent and has no legal standing.

 

[Etoile]

They didn't. The state court ruled that gay marriage was legal, then the voters effectively reversed it.

Totally unrelated, but I love your sig. That was the best line in the whole show.

 

[John Doe]

Totally unrelated, but I love your sig. That was the best line in the whole show.

Yeah or the one where they're bowling and he says something like, "Hey, how about the white guys versus the black guys?" and Stewie replies, "Yeah, way to instigate, Patrick!"

I also liked the one line Jonathon Frakes had about shamrock shakes, which was probably not intended to be as funny as I think it is.