Looking for a new forum

[Stella_Omega]

The internet has changed since the days of usenet. This seems to be difficult for many people to understand. This forum has been home for four years-- but the quote "free speech" unquote policy here is in fact destructive to the speech that matters.

This forum was pretty civilised when I first came here, mainly because it had such a small userbase. Even arguments with Ami were more or less civil. But a few years go, we noticed that there were more people lurking here than on GB, and the laws of averages say that not all of those lurkers are going to actually like the atmosphere here, and that some of those are going to begin trolling-- just because they can.

I've talked with Laurel a few times suggesting ways to moderate this forum, and there are some excellent models available-- craigslist.org is one of the best examples of a functional anarchy I've ever seen, for instance. But I haven't been able to convince her of why it might be better to allow the community to set a standard, and really it only takes a few trolls before the entire forum smells like sewage.
This was a safe place for me as a queer, geeky writing woman. I don't mind fighting for my rights, but I really dont want to have to screw up my emotional courage just to visit my home forum. I don't want to have to ignore posters here knowing that they are spewing filth that I can do nothing about. Knowing we are powerless to protect ourselves from the "free speech" of unadulterated malice is just heartbreaking. I know that other parts of this forum group somehow do rate moderators-- why don't we?

There are so many people here that I don't want to lose. But this isn't my AH anymore. I want to find someplace that has a moderation system. Anyone here who uses other forums? Where are you?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

STELLA

You have an alligator mouth and a hummingbird ass. You start shit with people like me and then wanna play IGGY games or cry to Laurel. You think you own the place and you want all the kiddies to kiss your ass and play by your rules.

Dont start any shit and there wont be any.

 

[cloudy]

If you find one, Stella-love, let me know. I'll go with you.

 

[impressive]

Don't give up the sandbox. Scoop the sausages.

 

[Stella_Omega]

If you find one, Stella-love, let me know. I'll go with you.

We do have STORY, but getting enough posters to keep it viable has never happened. I'd say a forum needs a minimum of 200 people-- folks to lurk as well as the mainstays.
I've been pointed to absolutewrite.com, and there are 400 people on the forums right now! The newbies FAQ is really sensible.

I don't want to be anyplace where everyone agrees all the time, I just want to be somewhere where the toilet flushes, yanno?

 

[Safe_Bet]

The internet has changed since the days of usenet. This seems to be difficult for many people to understand. This forum has been home for four years-- but the quote "free speech" unquote policy here is in fact destructive to the speech that matters.

This forum was pretty civilised when I first came here, mainly because it had such a small userbase. Even arguments with Ami were more or less civil. But a few years go, we noticed that there were more people lurking here than on GB, and the laws of averages say that not all of those lurkers are going to actually like the atmosphere here, and that some of those are going to begin trolling-- just because they can.

I've talked with Laurel a few times suggesting ways to moderate this forum, and there are some excellent models available-- craigslist.org is one of the best examples of a functional anarchy I've ever seen, for instance. But I haven't been able to convince her of why it might be better to allow the community to set a standard, and really it only takes a few trolls before the entire forum smells like sewage.
This was a safe place for me as a queer, geeky writing woman. I don't mind fighting for my rights, but I really dont want to have to screw up my emotional courage just to visit my home forum. I don't want to have to ignore posters here knowing that they are spewing filth that I can do nothing about. Knowing we are powerless to protect ourselves from the "free speech" of unadulterated malice is just heartbreaking. I know that other parts of this forum group somehow do rate moderators-- why don't we?

There are so many people here that I don't want to lose. But this isn't my AH anymore. I want to find someplace that has a moderation system. Anyone here who uses other forums? Where are you?

Jeez, this is harder to type than I thought it would be... I HATE moderators (no offense to the good ones who actually FOSTER free speech by working to stop the "trolling") but I do think that it is time to "rethink" moderating the AH. I'm not for blocking anyone, but I really want a method for specific "hate speech" posts to be removed before they can cause harm. The "GB reject" trolls, the AH'ers who only post hateful crap and the "one line snarky wonders" need to be moderated.

Yeah, I know that "Iggy" is my friend. The problem is that some people post things that are SO hateful (as has been demonstrated today) that they NEED to be removed, the offending party warned and evicted if they keep doing it. Even using Iggy it is impossible to avoid them because, invariably, somebody quotes them.

I agree with Stella. I've started doing more posting on different BBSs and in the GLBT Chatter forum because of this problem. I LOVE the discourse and "writerly" level conversations here, but the 1% of pure hate is too much.

 

[sr71plt]

Absolutewrite.com is controlled by a small group of folks who promote behavior within themselves and towards others that they won't tolerate from other posters. Thus, like most every other discussion board.

But if you can't stand not to be part of the "control" group and can't just either play with the haters or talk around them, withdrawing quietly--if only for a while--might, yes, be a good solution to how you are feeling at the moment.

I have little sympathy for leaving to the "so long sewer rats" tune of a brass band--especially when these farewell concerts begin to rival Cher farewell tours in number. And I have even less sympathy for using the free-given chat room of one Web site to try to pull folks off of that chat room to another Web site. Besides, this is pretty much a search for the Holy Grail.

If you want a highly controlled, serious writer's Internet discussion environment (albeit one a little dictatorial controlled), try Backspace.com. You'll have to pay to be there, though.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Absolutewrite.com is controlled by a small group of folks who promote behavior within themselves and towards others that they won't tolerate from other posters. Thus, like most every other discussion board.

I'm sure you're right about that-- that's a pattern I've seen on almost every forum I've ever frequented. If i got STORY going strong, I'd implement the craigslist model-- individual posts can be flagged, but only spam is removed on the basis of one or two flags. More problematic posts get removed if a certain number of posters flag it, and that number is some sort of algorithmic percentage-- makes for a nice and judicious form of "community standards" althoug of course posters who get removed are always very indignant about it. None of the removed posts are deleted entirely-- there's a "Isle of deleted posts" that can be accessed and it's all there. There are other forums that have "dungeon" subforums for the same use.

If you want a highly controlled, serious writer's Internet discussion environment (albeit one a little dictatorial controlled), try Backspace.com. You'll have to pay to be there, though.

Nope, I want a place where a LOT of discussion is writing oriented- not all of it.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SR71PLT

Well, youre either for free speech or youre not. If you want your swill tolerated, you must cut some slack for the other guy's garbage. You dont have to like it, you dont have to read it, you dont have to respond to it.

BECAUSE everyone on this board writes shit that someone on the planet has a big problem with.

And if youre here because you have control issues, maybe youre own private cesspool is what you need.

 

[Recidiva]

Just let me know where you go.

I tend to leave when I've had enough and then return later on.

You don't have to use the front door, you can break in or throw rocks at the window until I notice.

I might prefer that actually.

 

[trysail]

Stella,

There are a couple of reasons that I like this place. For one, unlike ninety-nine and forty-four one hundreths percent of the Internet, people around here are, on the whole, able to spell correctly and write complete sentences. That's important to me because I confess a limited ability to tolerate bad English— not only does the appearance of bad English drive me nuts, it also makes me question the writer's ratiocination, grasp of facts, knowledge and judgment.

There's no denying the fact I have a strong belief in fiscal common sense and am a strong adherent of personal responsibility. In other areas, I like to think I am fairly tolerant; what you or anybody else does behind closed doors or what goes on between consenting adults is none of my business. One of the reasons I come here is to expose myself to different ideas and gauge how people I wouldn't ordinarily have contact with view the world. I listen to NPR for the same reason, though I frequently find myself gnashing my teeth and wanting to strangle some of the frustrated would-be dictators or the naive, utopian dreamers who dominate that place. I find that far too many NPR blabbermouths are divorced from reality, are horribly biased and have little knowledge of economics, investments, mathematics or business. That doesn't stop me from listening.

We all know that there are certain parties 'round here whose sole mission in their sorry lives appears to be making intentionally provocative statements. I don't find it difficult to ignore what are obviously either deliberately inflammatory posts or are so clearly misinformed that responding is an obvious waste of time.

 

[Pure]

i'll bet

that if stella finds such a forum, it will be tightly moderated. while it's fine to call for minimum measures like removing trolls and hateful messages, the lines are not always clear, and the people being moderated have to put up with some questionable calls.

[i am posting this as a personal and unofficial statement]


the history of wikipedia shows the creep of controls. originally people could easily modify content. now, certain spots are closed (e.g. GWB), and many others have screening of proposed changes.

i have never seen a successful and productive forum that was not either moderated or 'screened.' what i mean by 'screened' is that posters either select those in their group (e.g. a writers' association) or some outside institution selects (e.g. all posters are member of the Hillside Baptist Church, or the Stanford University, Class of 2011).

HOWEVER. the desires of frequenters have to be honored. the majority here do not want a moderator. further, the question whether a forum is dry or boring is rather subjective. can the question "Is it too social?" be answered? no. that is because the *purpose* of the forum is subject to debate, also. so if the agreed purpose is social, then presumably many find the AH to be a satisfactory social outlet.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Just let me know where you go.

I tend to leave when I've had enough and then return later on.

You don't have to use the front door, you can break in or throw rocks at the window until I notice.

I might prefer that actually.

There's a Melissa Etheridge song about that...

I'm checking out absolutewrite at the moment, and I haven't left here yet!

 

[Liar]

Nope, I want a place where a LOT of discussion is writing oriented- not all of it.

I don't want to sound snarky here, but that sounds picky to me.

This is a place where discussion is writing oriented, and other. It's not the ratio you want? It's the ratio we, as a collective, deserve. The way to change it is by persistance. Ask a daily writing oriented question. If just a handful of us do it, hey presto.

The troll infestation is another matter, I believe. I can see your point there. Although I've been here as long as you, and I don't feel like the tone or amount of turd flinging is much different now than it has been on and off in the past. There has always been a level of douchebaggery. Are you sure that it's that that has changed, and not you that's just gown weary of it?

 

[Recidiva]

There's a Melissa Etheridge song about that...

I'm checking out absolutewrite at the moment, and I haven't left here yet!

Okay. I'd love to persuade you to stay, but I'm not that eloquent and the last thing I wanna be is disagreeing with you right now.

Even though I disagree with you.

I can agree that I'd miss you and it'd be a big loss.

 

[TE999]

The internet has changed since the days of usenet. This seems to be difficult for many people to understand. This forum has been home for four years-- but the quote "free speech" unquote policy here is in fact destructive to the speech that matters.

This forum was pretty civilised when I first came here, mainly because it had such a small userbase. Even arguments with Ami were more or less civil. But a few years go, we noticed that there were more people lurking here than on GB, and the laws of averages say that not all of those lurkers are going to actually like the atmosphere here, and that some of those are going to begin trolling-- just because they can.

I've talked with Laurel a few times suggesting ways to moderate this forum, and there are some excellent models available-- craigslist.org is one of the best examples of a functional anarchy I've ever seen, for instance. But I haven't been able to convince her of why it might be better to allow the community to set a standard, and really it only takes a few trolls before the entire forum smells like sewage.
This was a safe place for me as a queer, geeky writing woman. I don't mind fighting for my rights, but I really dont want to have to screw up my emotional courage just to visit my home forum. I don't want to have to ignore posters here knowing that they are spewing filth that I can do nothing about. Knowing we are powerless to protect ourselves from the "free speech" of unadulterated malice is just heartbreaking. I know that other parts of this forum group somehow do rate moderators-- why don't we?

There are so many people here that I don't want to lose. But this isn't my AH anymore. I want to find someplace that has a moderation system. Anyone here who uses other forums? Where are you?

Stella, darlin', I don't mean to be critical, but if you and others quit the field, the bastards have won big time. I know the crap that's posted is often disturbing and down right intolerable, but ignoring it is the best way of ending it. Don't let a few thugs drive y'all away.

 

[Recidiva]

Stella, darlin', I don't mean to be critical, but if you and others quit the field, the bastards have won big time. I know the crap that's posted is often disturbing and down right intolerable, but ignoring it is the best way of ending it. Don't let a few thugs drive y'all away.

Oooh! I can argue with you!

Really, I'm just seizing the opportunity to argue by proxy.

I don't believe what almost anybody has expressed about winning or losing or what free speech means.

I think (and I could be entirely wrong) that Stella would like to stab certain people in the eye repeatedly, and that makes her feel oogy. I think she likes watching others stab others in the eye is also painful. It's also ugly and it's hard to get the stains out.

I'm sure she could say it better, but the rest of the stuff about winning and losing and all the intellectual overlay is secondary to the things she can't change. i.e. impulse to stab and having enough of a conscience and belief, to think that's wrong and she would like to avoid provoking it, and also witnessing it.

She's been an advocate for a safe but not boring, protective, community space for a long while, and I think that's what she wants for herself, what she wants for others.

I'm fine with Thunderdome, but the splashing blood is getting on her stylish couture and she doesn't want to have to scrub it out.

The rest is intellectual overlay.

I'm arguing again.

DAMMIT.

 

[OhMissScarlett]

Stella, darlin', I don't mean to be critical, but if you and others quit the field, the bastards have won big time. I know the crap that's posted is often disturbing and down right intolerable, but ignoring it is the best way of ending it. Don't let a few thugs drive y'all away.

My sentiments exactly. No matter where you go, there's going to be someone stirring shit...because they can. I know it's evil and I'd kick them in the balls(or whatever) if I ever ran into them in person. You know, last week I was running in the park and it had seemingly been invaded by a bunch of trashy and inconsiderate douchebags. But, I'm not going to quit running there because I love that park and I was there first and IT'S MY FUCKING PARK!

 

[Safe_Bet]

There's a Melissa Etheridge song about that...

"You Must be Crazy for Me"?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

STELLA

Theyre right. If you abandon the field, I win.

Everyone wont follow you.

I suggest that you make peace with me or ignore me. My terms of peace are real simple: Stop acting like a harridan with me.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

My sentiments exactly. No matter where you go, there's going to be someone stirring shit...because they can. I know it's evil and I'd kick them in the balls(or whatever) if I ever ran into them in person. You know, last week I was running in the park and it had seemingly been invaded by a bunch of trashy and inconsiderate douchebags. But, I'm not going to quit running there because I love that park and I was there first and IT'S MY FUCKING PARK!

Its true. Someone always moves in and fucks up the neighborhood. Someone always stirs up the shit. Someone always is different from what you like.

So kill them or get over it.

 

[sr71plt]

SR71PLT

Well, youre either for free speech or youre not. If you want your swill tolerated, you must cut some slack for the other guy's garbage. You dont have to like it, you dont have to read it, you dont have to respond to it.

BECAUSE everyone on this board writes shit that someone on the planet has a big problem with.

And if youre here because you have control issues, maybe youre own private cesspool is what you need.

First, you can't tell me what I'm for or against, JBJ (although, God knows you try).

And, second, in this case you obviously didn't read my post to make the assumptions you have about what I'm for or against on this issue. (That's not a new thing either.)

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

TRYSAIL

Stop! The whole goddamned world now knows that your profession is an association of astrologers, alchemists, and bandits.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SR71PLT

You flatter yourself, youre easy to read.

I'm gonna call you "Floyd" or "Earl", as I dont know your name.

I was speaking generally, not about YOUR sentiments.

 

[sr71plt]

Oh, no, you're going to have our fairly new poster, bsergi1, down on you like a jay on a June bug.

I'll have to admit I have limited tolerance for posters who use "hey look at me" large type, funny type, and funky colors.