Americans in jail.

Is the number of Americans in American prisons, about right?

  • There are sligtly more in prison than should be

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    14
  • Poll closed .

Pure

Fiel a Verdad
Joined
Dec 20, 2001
Posts
15,135
Are things as they should be. Some figures in the article, below.

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_180073.html


The growing prison population has bipartisan roots, which I [Ryan Grim]explore in a book be published soon, This Is Your Country On Drugs. Throughout the 1980s, Democrats in Congress and state governments around the country increased prison sentences for drug offenses, coming down particularly hard on crack. In 1986, Congress instituted mandatory-minimum sentences for powder and crack cocaine. To trigger the powder minimum, a dealer needed to possess 500 grams. For crack, just five grams. Two years later, the law was extended to anybody who was associated with the dealer -- girlfriends, roommates, etc.


In 1991, Michigander Allen Harmelin argued that his life sentence for possessing roughly a pound and a half of cocaine is cruel and unusual. The Supreme Court ruled that it is neither. California enacted its three-strikes law in 1994 -- three felonies equals a minimum of 25 years -- and the feds one-upped the state, declaring a third felony to result in life without parole. Twenty-three more states enacted three-strikes laws by 1995.



In 1984, just over 30,000 people were in prison for drug crimes; by 1991, the number had soared to more than 150,000. The Department of Justice found in a study of the prison population that the average length of a federal stay drastically increased between 1986 and 1997. If you walked into prison in 1986, your average stay would have been 21 months. In 1997, it was 47 months. For weapons offenders, the rise was from 23 to 75 months, and for drug offenders, it was from 30 to 66 months.

Not all criminals could expect such increased time behind bars, however: A bank robber could expect 74 months in 1986 and only 83 months a decade later.

Three-strikes laws and lengthening prison sentences explain what appears to be a contradiction: U.S. crime rates are falling while U.S. incarceration rates are rising. It stands to reason that if fewer people are committing crimes, then fewer people should be locked up. But locking up fewer people every year and putting them away for much longer mushrooms the prison population.


The result is that more than one out of every 100 Americans is currently in prison. If you're a black male between 20 and 34, there's a better than one in nine chance that you're imprisoned. To keep all of these people behind bars, states spent a combined $44 billion in 2007.

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NOTE: see kendo's posting #4 below for some comparative figures. thanks, K.!
NOTE2: i've supplied some figures, similar to Kendo's, in post #7.
 
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As is usual with these AH polls, there's no option that applies to what I think.

I think there are far, far too many people in U.S. prisions--but because of what they did, not because they don't belong there. There are far, far too many people in the States committing criminal acts, methinks. We are the ultimate "me first" country.
 
As is usual with these AH polls, there's no option that applies to what I think.

I think there are far, far too many people in U.S. prisions--but because of what they did, not because they don't belong there. There are far, far too many people in the States committing criminal acts, methinks. We are the ultimate "me first" country.
Ditto.
 
The figures on this side of the pond are

UK : 1.5 per thousand
France : 0.85 per thousand
Germany : 0.7 per thousand

Relating that to 10 per thousand in the US - well, laws are different, so it is difficult to compare. The amount of money it costs to keep these people behind bars must be rather large.:eek:

Ah! The land of the free.:)
 
One of the dark little secrets about America that no one wants to admit to is that the more diverse a country's population (or even a town's population) the more violent it gets. Why this is so no one has been able to determine and besides, it's too politically incorrect to do research like that. What is true, though, is that crime in America is like-on-like. Show me a white victim, I'll show you a white criminal, nine times out of ten. The same is true for every other group. Now, don't minority populations deserve a lower crime neighborhood, too?
 
The figures on this side of the pond are

UK : 1.5 per thousand
France : 0.85 per thousand
Germany : 0.7 per thousand

Relating that to 10 per thousand in the US - well, laws are different, so it is difficult to compare. The amount of money it costs to keep these people behind bars must be rather large.:eek:

Ah! The land of the free.:)

The cost is a huge problem, and one of the arguments used in relaxing US drug laws for non-violent posession/use offenses.
 
some numbers

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8801

The United States has less than 5 percent of the world's population. But it has almost a quarter of the world's prisoners.

Indeed, the United States leads the world in producing prisoners, a reflection of a relatively recent and now entirely distinctive American approach to crime and punishment. Americans are locked up for crimes — from writing bad checks to using drugs — that would rarely produce prison sentences in other countries. And in particular they are kept incarcerated far longer than prisoners in other nations.

Criminologists and legal scholars in other industrialized nations say they are mystified and appalled by the number and length of American prison sentences.

The United States has, for instance, 2.3 million criminals behind bars, more than any other nation, according to data maintained by the International Center for Prison Studies at King's College London.
China, which is four times more populous than the United States, is a distant second, with 1.6 million people in prison. (That number excludes hundreds of thousands of people held in administrative detention, most of them in China's extrajudicial system of re-education through labor, which often singles out political activists who have not committed crimes.)

San Marino, with a population of about 30,000, is at the end of the long list of 218 countries compiled by the center. It has a single prisoner.
The United States comes in first, too, on a more meaningful list from the prison studies center, the one ranked in order of the incarceration rates. It has 751 people in prison or jail for every 100,000 in population. (If you count only adults, one in 100 Americans is locked up.)

The only other major industrialized nation that even comes close is Russia, with 627 prisoners for every 100,000 people. The others have much lower rates. England's rate is 151; Germany's is 88; and Japan's is 63.

The median among all nations is about 125, roughly a sixth of the American rate.


There is little question that the high incarceration rate here has helped drive down crimethough there is debate about how much.

[end excerpt]

the article discusses a variety of reasons for the high American figure, including longer sentences for non violent crimes like burglary, as well as such offences as drug possession.
 
One of the dark little secrets about America that no one wants to admit to is that the more diverse a country's population (or even a town's population) the more violent it gets. Why this is so no one has been able to determine and besides, it's too politically incorrect to do research like that. What is true, though, is that crime in America is like-on-like. Show me a white victim, I'll show you a white criminal, nine times out of ten. The same is true for every other group. Now, don't minority populations deserve a lower crime neighborhood, too?

WHAT YOU SAY IS TRUE, BUT THE PHENOMENON IS NOT RESTRICTED TO AMERICA, AND THE BALKANS ARE LIKELY THE BEST EXAMPLE OF VIOLENT ETHNIC/RELIGIOUS STRIFE. EVEN THE MUSLIMS HATE EACH OTHER, BECAUSE OF THEIR ETHNIC DIVERSITY.
 
Another sly attack against America...what's the beef this time, Pure? Guns? Americans are just more violent? Capitalism causes crime?

Always the sneaky bastard...

~~~

http://www.hoover.org/research/factsonpolicy/facts/16615876.html

In December 2006, there were 1.57 million people in federal or state prisons.

• Gender: Of the 1.57 million prisoners, 1.46 million were male, and 112,000 were female. Females made up 7 percent of the prison population. The ratio of male to female prisoners was roughly 13 to 1.


The prison incarceration rate of women was 1 in every 1,493 women, whereas the prison incarceration rate for men was 1 out of every 106.

Nativity: The 91,426 noncitizen prisoners constituted 6 percent of the prison population. The proportion of noncitizen prisoners has not changed much over the past few years.

Race and Ethnicity At the end of 2006, the prison population was 42 percent black, 40 percent white, and 16 percent Hispanic.

~~~

http://74.6.146.127/search/cache?ei...'s+drug+related&d=Whzy6p2uScUL&icp=1&.intl=us

People of Color and the Prison Industrial Complex

Facts and Figures at a Glance

African Americans represent 12.7% of the US population, 15% of US drug users (72% of
all users are white), 36.8% of those arrested for a drug-related crime, 48.2% of
American adults in state, and federal prisons and local jails and 42.5% of prisoners
under sentence of death.


Statistical Abstract of the United States (1999), Sourcebook of


Criminal Justice Statistics, (1998), National Household Survey of Drug Abuse (1998) and Bureau of
Justice Statistics Bulletin: Prisoners and Jail Inmates at Midyear 1999.


??


African American women (with an incarceration rate of 205 per 100,000) are more
than three times as likely as Latinas (60 per 100,000) and six times more likely than white
women (34 per 100,000) to face imprisonment.


Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 2000


(Washington, DC: US Department of Justice, August 2001).


??


The United States imprisons African American men at a rate four times greater than the
rate of incarceration for Black men in South Africa.


Craig Haney, Ph.D., and Philip


Zimbardo, Ph.D., "The Past and Future of U.S. Prison Policy: Twenty-five Years After the Stanford


Prison Experiment," American Psychologist, Vol. 53, No. 7 (July 1998), p. 714.


??


In 1986, before mandatory minimums for crack offenses went into effect, the average
sentence for an African American convicted of a drug-related crime involving crack
was 11% higher than for whites. In 1990, four years after the implementation of harsher
federal drug laws, the average increased to 49%.


Meierhoefer, B. S., The General Effect of


Mandatory Minimum Prison Terms: A Longitudinal Study of Federal Sentences Imposed
(Washington DC: Federal Judicial Center, 1992), p. 20.


??


Due to felony convictions, 1.46 million African American men out of a total voting
population of 10.4 million have lost their right to vote.


Thomas, P., "Study Suggests Black


Male Prison Rate Impinges on Political Process," The Washington Post (January 30, 1997), p. A3.


??


One in three black men between the ages of 20 and 29 live under some form of
correctional supervision or control.


Maurer, M. & Hurling, T., “Young Black Americans and


the Criminal Justice System: Five Years Later (Washington DC: The Sentencing Project, 1995).


??


Latinos represent 11.1% of the US population, 10% of US drug users (72% of all users are
white), 22.5% of sentenced state prisoners convicted of a drug-related crime, and
18.6% of American adults in state or federal prisons and local jails.


Statistical Abstract of


the United States (1999), Sourcebook of Criminal Justice Statistics, (1998), National Household
Survey of Drug Abuse (1998) and Bureau of Justice Statistics Bulletin: Prisoners and Jail Inmates at


Midyear 1999.


??


African American children (7.0%) were nearly nine times more likely to have an
incarcerated parent in prison than white children (0.8%). Similarly, Latino children
(2.6%) were three times as likely as white children to have a parent in prison.


Bureau of


Justice Statistics, Incarcerated Parents and Their Children (Washington, DC: US Department of
Justice, August 2000).


??


Native Americans represent less than 1% of the US population. Over 4% of Native
Americans are under correctional supervision (compared to 2% of whites). Native
Americans are the victims of violent crimes at twice the rate of the general population
and 60% of these victims describe the offender as white.


American Indians and Crime,


Bureau of Justice Statistics (1999), Statistical Abstract of the United States (1999), Sourcebook of


Criminal Justice Statistics (1998) and Bureau of Justice Statistics Bulletin: Prisoners and Jail
Inmates at Midyear 1999. \

~~~~

Other than 58 percent are non white, what can you make of that? Oh, yeah, civil rights violations, yeah, I get it.

Amicus...
 
We blue-eyed whites incarcerate so many blacks to protect them from extinction, like spotted owls and panda bears. And its a scientific fact that blacks have natural talents for basketball and stamping car tags. Prison is their ecological niche.
 
The figures on this side of the pond are

UK : 1.5 per thousand
France : 0.85 per thousand
Germany : 0.7 per thousand

Relating that to 10 per thousand in the US - well, laws are different, so it is difficult to compare. The amount of money it costs to keep these people behind bars must be rather large.:eek:

Ah! The land of the free.:)

Deserves to be carved into slate and posted in the town green in every town in America.
 
Aside from that, Cant, what is your off the cuff assessment of why...?

ami
 
I listened with some interest to an

earnest young woman on NPR spouting data, statistics, and raw numbers about how many folks are incarcerated in this country..........Most for good reason....
While it's true that we have a higher percentage of our population in jail than other 'first world' countries, we also have more freedoms and opportunities for mischief......I don't worry about the ones who are in jail, it's the ones we haven't gotten hold of yet that I ponder on......
A mandatory death sentence for murder, rape, and child abuse may not deter future criminals but it would reduce dramatically the number incarcerated and make me feel better about the universe.......
Ciao, Lipz Just to the left of Genghis Khan......
 
Most jailbirds commit 20-30 crimes before they spend a day in the slammer, so prison or the gallows works.
 
Make suicide, gambling, drugs, prostitution and guns legal.

Let everyone out of jail who is in for trafficking in these things.

Use the freed up prisons, criminal and legal system to arrest and actually convict criminals who commit crimes that aren't victimless.

This will also help put corrupt governments, black-ops organizations, corrupt cops and organized crime out of business.
 
Make suicide, gambling, drugs, prostitution and guns legal.

Let everyone out of jail who is in for trafficking in these things.

Use the freed up prisons, criminal and legal system to arrest and actually convict criminals who commit crimes that aren't victimless.

This will also help put corrupt governments, black-ops organizations, corrupt cops and organized crime out of business.

Suicide I agree with. You see no victims in gambling, drugs, prostitution, and ready access to guns? Interesting.
 
Suicide I agree with. You see no victims in gambling, drugs, prostitution, and ready access to guns? Interesting.

No. I really don't. Some stoner decides to get high and play the Wii for a weekend and eat a lot of Fritos, not a problem. Gambling, that's someone's money, let them spend it. Prostitution is the oldest profession, isn't it time someone legitimized it?

Access to guns doesn't mean human lives will be taken. Sometimes it's just someone overcompensating.

This stuff does not directly result in harm until abused. So punish the abuse and when other crimes are committed, like murder and robbery. Those are still bad.

This is on the basis of how well Prohibition worked out.
 
No. I really don't. Some stoner decides to get high and play the Wii for a weekend and eat a lot of Fritos, not a problem. Gambling, that's someone's money, let them spend it. Prostitution is the oldest profession, isn't it time someone legitimized it?

Access to guns doesn't mean human lives will be taken. Sometimes it's just someone overcompensating.

This stuff does not directly result in harm until abused. So punish the abuse and when other crimes are committed, like murder and robbery. Those are still bad.

This is on the basis of how well Prohibition worked out.


Ahh, then you think the families of these folks are unaffected--not victimized by it. Interesting.
 
Ahh, then you think the families of these folks are unaffected--not victimized by it. Interesting.

Victimized how?

Because you can be a complete asshole without any help. Being an asshole to those you love isn't illegal.
 
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