How accepted is BDSM by therapy professionals?

[ShivanDragon00]

Ok i just had a sort of question just pop into my mind and I'd like to get some of the Litster's opinions on it. I would like to note that I got the idea for this reading through another thread (the how common is it to get outted thread). In the thread, an intervention was mentioned, *nods to Homburg and MIS, hope you dont mind me making reference* and it was said that the therapist basically violated the trust of her patient and royally fucked things up for her. Now my question is, where are all the professional therapists out there who feel that there can be nurturing BDSM relationships. I have spoken with people in the past who have seen therapists and have always gotten the idea that for the most part, therapists see this lifestyle as destructive and akin to abuse, and while it is true, abuse and BDSM arent always mutually exclusive, i neither believe they indicative of eachother. My feelings are that abuse will manifest itself in any form of relationship if either party in that relationship is prone to abuse. It could be a casual friendship, 'traditional' relationship, or a BDSM relationship. Anyway I guess I feel that a professional such as a therapist would be more open minded to understanding the workings of an individual relationship rather than just label it destructive based on the broader understanding of what the relationship entails in the eyes of the general public. I mean, we have plenty of people on here who are accepting of the BDSM lifestyle, and I for one know many good people in this lifestyle so it confounds me that everyone in this lifestyle is 'sick' as some would put it. It just cant be. So how is it that a professional can label every single person and every single relationship as unhealthy.

 

[MisterSir]

So how is it that a professional can label every single person and every single relationship as unhealthy.

By being stupid, intolerant, bigoted or just garden-variety retarded. Pick your favourite.

NB: Lots of them do have good intentions. The road to Hell isn't paved with good intentions any more, although they laid the yellow bricks over it.

 

[Valleyl81]

*****

 

[00Syd]

That said, there is a group called "Kink Aware Professionals" where you can find therapists and other professionals who are open to and know something about BDSM. You can find the website at http://www.ncsfreedom.org/index.php?option=com_keyword&id=270. Even though that exists, it doesn't mean there is someone in your corner of the world, though.

Ah! That is just what I needed! Thank you thank you thank you

 

[Homburg]

Valleyl81's mention of the KAP list is spot on. I will say that there are many more kink-aware professionals out there that are not on that list. Putting yourself on the list is seen by some as setting a professional identity in line with those practices, no matter how hard NCSF works to prevent that from being the case.

In MIS case, her primary provider knows now, and he feels that the relationship is a positive one insofar as her mental/emotional health is concerned, for a number of reasons (external structure, how secure she feels now, how happy she is). When she finally decided that she was kind of okay with going back to therapy again, he was the person she turned to for a referral, and he apparently called a number of different therapists.

When she got with her current (fantastic) therapist, said therapist knew nothing at all about the lifestyle. MIS has been educating her by her own statements and giving her ideas on where to go. She had some trouble with it initially, and who wouldn't that is not kinky? Still, she was open-minded, and that was what her primary provider was looking for.

Since then, her therapist has decided that this relationship is healthy for her, that I'm not some kind of freakish monster, and various other happy things. She's not a BDSM fangirl or anything, but accepts that it may well be the right structure for MIS. And that, honestly, is all that you can ask for.

With MIS moving down here, I've been doing some footwork looking for local referrals. The KAP list is thin in this area, so I figured I'd just hit my munch group's mailing list and ask for people to contact me off list with possible referrals. The group responded well, and I have a list of names, and, sadly, not a one advertises on the list.

Too many people are blinkered by the imagery, blinkered by the very things that turn us on. They see the hitting and crying and "obsessive", and it all says "WHOA, we have a PROBLEM here!" Honestly, it takes a special kind of person to look a serious kinkster in the eye and say "This is not my bag, but it seems to work for you. I can accept that."

 

[WriterDom]

I can see why a therapist wouldn't want to be on a list like that though. Chances are pretty high that he or she would be googled by a vanilla just wanting to see what's out there on the doctor.

 

[rosco rathbone]

My therapist didn't want to hear about it. "You'll get over all that when you resolve your anger issues with your mother". I finally stopped talking about it.

He was wrong.

 

[intothewoods]

I personally think a good therapist will challenge you if you are making unhealthy choices or are in an unhealthy situation, regardless of whether that is kink-related or not.

My therapist is awesome. Most of my time in therapy was spent working through my divorce and the related issues. She knows that Mister Man and I are into s&m and power exchange, but I haven't spent much time discussing the details.

At any rate, the kink-aware list is a great idea, but I personally would just seek out a good therapist who treats a preference for bdsm like a preference for anal sex - that is, not necessarily relevant.

 

[ZRT]

At any rate, the kink-aware list is a great idea, but I personally would just seek out a good therapist who treats a preference for bdsm like a preference for anal sex - that is, not necessarily relevant.

Except that I've rarely met people for whom the kink isn't tied into fundamental aspects of their personality that would relate to most things they'd get therapy for.

Which isn't to say that BDSM practitioners are inherently unhealthy, just that it tends to be something so deeply bound up in their personalities that you can't really avoid touching on it if you're getting into their heads.

 

[FurryFury]

I'd like to see a list of gay friendly therapists too and Kink Aware + gay friendly.

 

[intothewoods]

Except that I've rarely met people for whom the kink isn't tied into fundamental aspects of their personality that would relate to most things they'd get therapy for.

Which isn't to say that BDSM practitioners are inherently unhealthy, just that it tends to be something so deeply bound up in their personalities that you can't really avoid touching on it if you're getting into their heads.

I said not necessarily relevant. It all depends on what you're working on in therapy and what your goals are. And it's not that it's never come up for me and I certainly would not advise anyone hide it. It just so happens that I've not really had to, say, describe a flogging in minute detail in order to work through how something my partner has said that triggers a bad memory about my ex.

Also, I would be wary of a therapist whose "acceptance" makes the therapy sort of useless. The therapist should help you to do the work that you want to do, not nod approvingly simply because it's kink-related and they don't want to be judgmental. Not that I think all kink-aware professionals would be like this. But it's crucial to find a good therapist, not a therapist who you want to have a beer with.

 

[Homburg]

My therapist didn't want to hear about it. "You'll get over all that when you resolve your anger issues with your mother". I finally stopped talking about it.

He was wrong.

Yellow.
Like.
Cheese.

 

[Arkhilokhus]

Except that I've rarely met people for whom the kink isn't tied into fundamental aspects of their personality that would relate to most things they'd get therapy for.

Which isn't to say that BDSM practitioners are inherently unhealthy, just that it tends to be something so deeply bound up in their personalities that you can't really avoid touching on it if you're getting into their heads.

When I started to go into therapy after my divorce, I rather expected - hoped, actually, if I'm being honest - that my submissive tendencies would be one of the things that would be "fixed". We addressed some fairly deep-rooted issues, and I'm unquestionably emotionally healthier for it, but rather than going away, my submissiveness has, if anything, seemed to become more solid and focussed.

 

[Valleyl81]

*****

 

[ZRT]

When I started to go into therapy after my divorce, I rather expected - hoped, actually, if I'm being honest - that my submissive tendencies would be one of the things that would be "fixed". We addressed some fairly deep-rooted issues, and I'm unquestionably emotionally healthier for it, but rather than going away, my submissiveness has, if anything, seemed to become more solid and focussed.

Out of curiosity, do you still want to get rid of it?

I spent a goodly portion of my youth trying to compartmentalize my tastes away in the hopes of 'outgrowing them'. Never worked. Finally I settled down and accepted my sadistic tendencies. So I have some idea of where you're coming from on that.

 

[Arkhilokhus]

Out of curiosity, do you still want to get rid of it?

That's a good question.

I think that for short-term factors, it does make my life more difficult, e.g., by reducing the pool of potential partners, or introducing stress into existing relationships (although I must admit, stress about submissiveness has never,in and of itself, been the cause of a relationship ending for me). So it might be nice to have more options, especially since I don't believe in "soul mates" - the mere fact that I exist as a submissive man does not imply, imo, that there exists a dominant female who is my perfect complement.

For long-term considerations, my submissiveness might add experiences that I would otherwise not be able to have. But I do wonder, is it anything a vanilla man couldn't experience through role-playing? In other words, is it a need or a perspective? And that's a question I don't know the answer to.

But overall...yes, if you offered me a magic pill to make me "normal", I'd take it.

I spent a goodly portion of my youth trying to compartmentalize my tastes away in the hopes of 'outgrowing them'. Never worked. Finally I settled down and accepted my sadistic tendencies. So I have some idea of where you're coming from on that.

That's pretty much where I'm at, stated much more succinctly than I ever could.

 

[Etoile]

I've used the KAP list twice in the past, once in 2001 and again in 2007. Was very happy with both women I picked. Both times my issues pertained directly to D/s and poly issues, so I wouldn't have picked anyone who wasn't on the list.

If you don't see anyone in your area, contact someone on the list and ask if they have recommendations or referrals that might be near you. Don't gamble with a therapist out of the phone book (or your insurance provider's book).

 

[Sir_Winston54]

Personal biases naturally come into our professional lives, even if we do our best to be unbiased. If a person has no clue about BDSM, it sure looks a lot like abuse, so it's hard to blame a person for labeling it as such. Most people don't have the knowledge or inclination to learn about it more and determine for themselves whether or not it is abusive.

That said, there is a group called "Kink Aware Professionals" where you can find therapists and other professionals who are open to and know something about BDSM. You can find the website at http://www.ncsfreedom.org/index.php?option=com_keyword&id=270. Even though that exists, it doesn't mean there is someone in your corner of the world, though.

One big problem for medical/therapeutic professionals is that they are taught to believe in their text and reference books, and one of their key references is the DSM IV (and its previous incarnations, DSM III, DSM II and DSM) (the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (!)).

Below is a short quote from a page of the IPG Counseling Group, a psychotherapy group that works with sexual minorities. A very interesting read, directly in line with this thread.

Let’s start with the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of the American Psychiatric Association---- the Bible of mental health. The fourth edition of this tome considers us "Paraphiliacs," What this means is…. We are sick simply because of what we fantasize about and/or do, no matter what else we are like as people or how healthy or sick the rest of our lives are.

The DSM IV is not particularly logical in its classification or diagnostic criteria for paraphilias. Some definitions are blatantly ridiculous: you are a fetishist, for example, if silky underwear turns you on but not if vibrators turn you on (vibrators are specifically made for sexual use, underwear is not). Other definitions manage to be both offensive and socially naïve at the same time: part of the definition of a Sexual Sadist is "the person has acted on these sexual urges with a nonconsenting person, or the sexual urges or fantasies cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty." In other words, you can be a sadist if you rape and torture someone OR if your wife finds out you have domination fantasies and divorces you OR if you feel personal distress because you’ve been told being a sadist is sick!

Moreover, like the Catholic Church, the DSM IV makes no distinction between fantasy and behavior….. again, the definition for Sexual Sadism only says you have to have "recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies….in which the psychological or physical suffering… of the victim (sic) is sexually exciting.." Among other things, this definition includes such a huge percentage of the population as to be ludicrous.​

 

[ShivanDragon00]

I personally think a good therapist will challenge you if you are making unhealthy choices or are in an unhealthy situation, regardless of whether that is kink-related or not.

My therapist is awesome. Most of my time in therapy was spent working through my divorce and the related issues. She knows that Mister Man and I are into s&m and power exchange, but I haven't spent much time discussing the details.

At any rate, the kink-aware list is a great idea, but I personally would just seek out a good therapist who treats a preference for bdsm like a preference for anal sex - that is, not necessarily relevant.

challenging is great, challenging makes you put your money where your mouth is and proves whether you truly want something because if you truly want it, then you will explain it, and usually if someone challenges you to defend a principle, or an idea, or an interest, they will keep an open mind about it, they usually want to see if you truly feel passionate about what you feel, on the other hand just shooting someone's interests down, and saying that you are wrong or sick for feeling the way you do, thats just stupidity and ineptitude, those types of people perceive what they think is the right thing and they dont want to hear any other way about it....

 

[HarlotMinx]

Hmm I am going to a doctor and a therapist at the same facility. Well, my therapist was completely aware of and fine with my kinks and viewed them as a healthy interest given my personality. Anyways, I went to my doctor at the facility, rather intelligently, the day after a scene. He took one look at the still fresh knife cuts, needle marks, and bruises... he completely freaked and called my therapist. She however was kind enough to tell him to get over it.

Since then, my number one worry has been going to the wrong doctor and having them misdiagnose something because of my fetishes. "Ummm, I have this pain shooting up my arm...." "Clearly that's from all those beatings you get."

-poppet

 

[ms_sub_liminal]

i wouldn't say professionals are taught to believe solely in their text and reference books, especially not the DSM. at least, not anymore. i'm currently in the field and one of the major components of our graduate study is to question absolutely every piece of literature available. the DSM, or any other resource for that matter, are "never ever to be used as a handbook for treatment or diagnosis". adapted from heads of the department at the two universities i've attended so far.

the problem with things like the DSM is that they're necessary in order to have the need for treatment recognized by organizations like the government or insurance companies so that funding and help is available to those who need it, but it's impossible to categorize even one human being. therefore, manuals like the DSM tend to be written in an overly broad and reaching manner to try to encompass every possible scenario. that's why most listed 'disorders' have a category called "Not Otherwise Specified" to act as a catch-all for anything that could be questioned.

for fetishes, one has to understand how difficult it is to get a category removed from the DSM. even harder than the review process to get one in actually. sexual deviance was added largely due to court cases involving such acts and also during a much more modest and sexually close-minded time in American life. the chapter has since on more of a categorical listing of fetishes. you'll find the British equivalent, the ICD-10 goes into even further detail on many topics. (after all, it began as a list of ways to die) the chapter needs to be there though for the cases in which fetish gets out of hand. there is a line between BDSM and straight abuse for example. i think we can all agree on that. a good therapist will know the line and see that sexual expression is healthy no matter the form.

the contents of the DSM are not entirely considered sicknesses, more labels. there are pros and cons to the idea of labels as i'm sure everyone who reads this board is well aware of. some people like the solidarity or peace of mind that comes with having a known label, others find it adds an unwelcome stigma.

for every good therapist there are a hundred bad ones unfortunately. if you are seeing one who thinks the DSM is the Bible or frowns upon anything you are doing just because you are doing it, they're one of the hundred and you should look elsewhere. the purpose of therapy is to help you to feel better about who you are, not to admonish you or find ways in which you are sick or need 'fixing'. as many people have referenced here, your kinks in bed are tied to who you are as a person. inevitably, they'll come up in therapy whether aloud or just in your own head.

whew, sorry for the little diatribe and mainly the wall o' text. i don't like the DSM and i hate therapists who give the rest of us a bad name. can you tell? also, i like your quote Sir_Winston

 

[ms_sub_liminal]

Hmm I am going to a doctor and a therapist at the same facility. Well, my therapist was completely aware of and fine with my kinks and viewed them as a healthy interest given my personality. Anyways, I went to my doctor at the facility, rather intelligently, the day after a scene. He took one look at the still fresh knife cuts, needle marks, and bruises... he completely freaked and called my therapist. She however was kind enough to tell him to get over it.

Since then, my number one worry has been going to the wrong doctor and having them misdiagnose something because of my fetishes. "Ummm, I have this pain shooting up my arm...." "Clearly that's from all those beatings you get."

-poppet

now that's funny

 

[intothewoods]

challenging is great, challenging makes you put your money where your mouth is and proves whether you truly want something because if you truly want it, then you will explain it, and usually if someone challenges you to defend a principle, or an idea, or an interest, they will keep an open mind about it, they usually want to see if you truly feel passionate about what you feel, on the other hand just shooting someone's interests down, and saying that you are wrong or sick for feeling the way you do, thats just stupidity and ineptitude, those types of people perceive what they think is the right thing and they dont want to hear any other way about it....

The devil is in the details. Just being in a power exchange relationship is not unhealthy as far as I'm concerned. Say for example the patient is going into debt because he gets off on being financially dominated. Someone called in to Dan Savage's podcast in this very situation to ask advice, actually. That I would call an unhealthy choice, not made any healthier by the fact that it is kink-related.

 

[myinnerslut]

when choosing my current therapist i laid out all of the details of my relationship (he is older then me, he is married, he has four kids, he lives in VA, it is a 24/7 TPE M/s relationship) and told her "these are parts of my relationship. if you have any strong issue with it, then i can't work with you. i refuse to be treated by someone who will tell me that my relationship is wrong because of what it is. if you feel like this is something you cannot morally do, then i understand and will find someone else."

i need my therapist to know that i am a slave and what that means to me, that i am a masochist and the ways we deal with safety, etc. if there is a problem within my relationship, i am willing to talk about and solve that, but i will not put myself in another situation where my relationship is a problem because of what it is.

 

[Netzach]

My therapist didn't want to hear about it. "You'll get over all that when you resolve your anger issues with your mother". I finally stopped talking about it.

He was wrong.

Fuckin' a, I got the *exact same thing* back in the day.

I found someone who's totally cool though. She gets it. Trans, sex work, BDSM, totally chill with it all.