Should we discard the political label "progressive"? I say no

KingOrfeo

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In this recent article, political commentator Michael Lind (a former National Review editor, BTW, who ultimately broke with the conservative movement for reasons recounted in this book) argues that "progressives" should drop that label and start calling themselves "liberals" again -- revive that once-honorable name, instead of trying to distance themselves from the RW's demonization of it by rebranding. Reasons given:

1) It's futile -- the RW is going to bash the center-left based on its policies, whatever name it uses.

2) Neoliberals have tried to appropriate the name "progressive" for themselves, which makes it rather confusing.

3) Radical leftists -- socialists and Communists of various stripes -- have done the same.

4) There is also risk of confusion with the early 20th-Century Progressives, whose politics were substantially different from all of the above.

5) The word "progressive" is "too German," deriving as it does from Germany's bureaucratically-oriented 19th-Century Deustche Fortschrittspartei (the word Fortschritt means "progress), whereas liberalism proper is rooted in values and civil liberties, not state action.

6) The most interesting objection: The world "progressive" implies "progress," which is not necessarily a liberal value.

Unlike progressivism and conservatism, liberalism is not a name that implies a view that things are either getting better or getting worse. Liberalism is a theory of a social order based on individual civil liberties, private property, popular sovereignty and democratic republican government. Liberals believe that liberal society is the best kind, but they are not committed to believing in universal progress toward liberalism, much less universal progress in general. Many liberals have been skeptical about the idea of unlimited progress and have believed that a liberal society is difficult to establish and easily changed into a nonliberal society.

Because liberalism refers to a particular kind of social order, and does not depend on any implied relationship of the present to the past or future, liberals can be either progressive or conservative, depending on whether they seek to move toward a more liberal system or to maintain a liberal system that already exists. For that matter, liberals can be revolutionary, if creating or establishing a liberal society requires a violent revolution. Liberals can even be counterrevolutionary, if they are defending a liberal society from revolutionary radicals, including anti-liberal revolutionaries of the radical right like Timothy McVeigh or Muslim jihadists.

7) "Liberal" is, or could be once again, a badge of pride. It describes an American political tradition with an honorable history and great achievements to its credit.

Those, then, are six arguments in favor of using liberalism to describe the center-left. I've reserved the seventh for last. The word "liberal" is a badge of pride. What is more embarrassing in 2008, to be associated with self-described liberals like Roosevelt and Johnson, Martin Luther King Jr. and Barbara Jordan, or with conservatives like Reagan and George W. Bush and Tom DeLay? I much prefer the public philosophy of the mid-century liberals, for all their blunders and shortcomings, to that of the three movements in American history that have called themselves progressive: the moderate-to-conservative progressives of the Democratic Leadership Council in the 1980s and 1990s; the deluded pro-Soviet progressives of the mid-20th century; and the Anglo-Protestant elite progressives of the 1900s, who admired Bismarck's Germany and wanted to keep out immigrants and sterilize the native poor.

All very good reasons, to be sure; very persuasive and cogently argued; but I object for the following two reasons:

1) The word "liberal" also is prone to ideological confusion. In the 19th Century it meant more or less what we call "libertarianism" today, which, at least in its modern incarnation, is also very, very different from what Lind considers "liberal" as described above.

2) In my judgment, in contemporary American political discourse, the word "progressive" actually means something, and not what Lind seems to think it does. Specifically, it means something well to the left of "liberal" and well to the right of "socialist." It is the political position of Canada's New Democratic Party, of America's erstwhile New Party, or the Working Families Party, or the Vermont Progressive Party -- any of which is easily distinguishable from even such a moderate socialist organization as the Democratic Socialists of America. Their politics is that of the social democrats of Europe. They don't envision wholesale expropriation of wealth or socialization of all means of production, but they do regard greater socioeconomic equality as an important end-in-itself, and they do regard movement in that direction as a form of "progress," and they do believe in the idea of "universal progress in general." The American Greens -- at least, the main body of them, the Green Party of the United States -- are a branch of American progressives. (There is also a smaller and distinctly far-leftist, Marxist-influenced party, the Greens/Green Party USA.) And progressivism so defined is an important political tendency, far more important in American politics today than socialism as such -- and, I think may become much more important in coming decades. The word "progressive" is worth preserving in American political discourse because it denotes that political tendency as no other term in current usage adequately does.
 
Does anyone click on those embedded links in Oreo's posts? I'd hate to think I'm the only one that finds them annoying.
 
What is progressive about a government growing like a cancer while sucking more money out of our pockets and the economy?
 
cocksucking motherfucking leeches...

oh shit, there I fucking go again.....
 
progressively increasing taxes.

progressively increasing governmental control over our lives.

progressively finding more and more about this country to hate.

progressively diluting the constitution through social and economic engineering.


yep, sure is progressive.
 
They're populist frauds who appeal to the lowest common denominator with their mind numbing, fuzzy propaganda.

Ms. Fuhrer is on TV right now saying Americans "just want a fair shake."
 
They're populist frauds who appeal to the lowest common denominator with their mind numbing, fuzzy propaganda.

Ms. Fuhrer is on TV right now saying Americans "just want a fair shake."

:rolleyes: Actually, "progressives" as I define them in the OP have very little influence in this Administration. Obama is hardly even a liberal.

But, you knew that.
 
:rolleyes: Actually, "progressives" as I define them in the OP have very little influence in this Administration. Obama is hardly even a liberal.

But, you knew that.
In the literal sense of "liberal" meaning "one who is in favor of liberty" you're right. :rolleyes:
 
In the literal sense of "liberal" meaning "one who is in favor of liberty" you're right. :rolleyes:

Bullshit, of course. Obama is maybe 5 degrees, if that, to the left of the Clintons -- still more a neoliberal (i.e., economic-libertarian/bizcon with a liberal face) more than anything else. The bailout package, designed to keep existing businesses going and their execs in their positions, is in no way inconsistent with that.

Oh, they're all for universal health care, but I hope even you are not such an idiot as to think of UCH as a threat to "liberty," since it has not been in any country where it has yet been tried.
 
Oh, they're all for universal health care, but I hope even you are not such an idiot as to think of UCH as a threat to "liberty," since it has not been in any country where it has yet been tried.
This must be some new definition of "liberty" I hadn't been previously aware of.
 
This must be some new definition of "liberty" I hadn't been previously aware of.

I'll help you out. To start with, "liberty" does not automatically equate to minimal government and low taxes, nor does a big-government high-tax scenario equate to "socialism," despite the far-right's vigorous repetition of that preposterous lie for the past 40 years.

Barack Obama's bold, ambitious budget plan proves that he is the true heir of Franklin Roosevelt and the New Deal. Consider Obama's Rooseveltian energy plan. In 1939, President Roosevelt decided to mobilize Americans to create a new source of energy: atomic power. Although he was urged to focus on government-funded R&D, FDR chose a different route. He wisely encouraged private capital to invest in atomic energy research by a variety of tax incentives. To make atomic power investment more palatable to private capital, FDR boldly chose to make all other forms of energy in the U.S. uneconomical, by slapping high taxes on kerosene and coal. With the money from the new federal Kerosene Cap and Trade system, President Roosevelt and Congress funded a small-scale federal research program, in the hope of attracting much greater private investment ...

Wait. What's that you say? FDR didn't do that? He poured federal money into the all-public Manhattan Project and created the first atomic bomb in a couple of years? He didn't tax kerosene to make it uneconomical and to encourage private investment in atomic power?

Oh. OK. Never mind.

But what about Social Security? In 1935, FDR signed the historic Social Security Act. It created a complex "retirement mandate" system, forcing all elderly Americans to buy expensive annuities from private insurance companies, without, however, imposing price controls on the insurance companies ...

What? FDR didn't force the elderly to subsidize private annuity brokers? He imposed a single, simple, efficient tax to pay for a single, simple, efficient public system of retirement benefits?

All right, then, forget FDR. He was a socialist, anyway. Let Dwight Eisenhower serve as a model for the Obama administration. President Eisenhower authorized the biggest infrastructure program in American history, when he signed the National Interstate and Defense Highways Act of 1956. The interstate highway act created an elaborate system of private tax incentives and public-private partnerships (PPPs) to encourage private corporations to build national highways. To begin with, all U.S. highways were leased to domestic and foreign corporations for a period of decades. Second, all U.S. highways were set up with toll booths, so that American drivers would be forced to repay the corporate owners of the national highways every few dozen miles. Finally, a system of high-speed lanes with higher tolls was created, so that the rich could whiz down the road while middle-class and poor Americans were stuck in traffic jams ...

All right, what now, wise guy? So that's wrong, too? Eisenhower's national highway system wasn't based on tolls, leases to foreign companies, income-based pricing, and tax credits for private corporations? It used gasoline taxes to fund free public highways?

Free highways without toll booths, owned by the public, paid for out of taxes? My God. So the John Birch Society was right after all. Dwight Eisenhower was as much of a socialist as Franklin Delano Roosevelt!

The point of this imaginary monologue is simple. Once upon a time in the United States, public goods -- from retirement security and energy research to public roads -- were provided by the government and paid for by taxes. As late as the Nixon administration, the provision of public goods by government was considered perfectly compatible with a robust market economy by so-called Modern Republicans like Eisenhower and Nixon as well as New Deal Democrats like Roosevelt, Truman, Kennedy and Johnson. In the intervening 40 years, however, free-market fundamentalists of the Chicago School have managed to change the debate, redefining "socialism" to mean not only public ownership of the means of production, but also public provision of public goods.

From "Obama's Timid Liberalism," by Michael Lind
 
Looks like the left did redefine "liberty." :rolleyes:

Individualist and liberal conceptions of liberty relate to the freedom of the individual from outside compulsion or coercion; A collectivist perspective, on the other hand, associates liberty with equality across a broader array of societal interests. As such, a collectivist redefines liberty as being connected to the reasonably equitable distribution of wealth, arguing that the unrestrained concentration of wealth (the means of production) into only a few hands negates liberty. In other words, without relatively equal ownership, the subsequent concentration of power and influence into a small portion of the population inevitably results in the domination of the wealthy and the subjugation of the poor. Thus, freedom and material equality are seen as intrinsically connected, a line of thought that finds its home in the philosophy of Jean-Jacques Rousseau. On the other hand, the individualist argues that wealth cannot be evenly distributed without force being used against individuals which reduces individual liberty.

John Stuart Mill, in his work, On Liberty, was the first to recognize the difference between liberty as the freedom to act and liberty as the absence of coercion. In his book, Two Concepts of Liberty, Isaiah Berlin formally framed the differences between these two perspectives as the distinction between two opposite concepts of liberty: positive liberty and negative liberty. The latter designates a negative condition in which an individual is protected from tyranny and the arbitrary exercise of authority, while the former refers to having the means or opportunity, rather than the lack of restraint, to do things.

Mill offered insight into the notions of soft tyranny and mutual liberty with his harm principle.[1] Many believe it is important to understand these concepts when discussing liberty since they all represent little pieces of the greater puzzle known as freedom. In a philosophical sense, it can be said that morality must supersede tyranny in any legitimate form of government. Otherwise, people are left with a societal system rooted in backwardness, disorder, and regression.

Wikipeda
 
Yes, just call it what it is; Socialist. :)

The MODERN "liberal" is, yes, a Socialist (or Communist or Fascist, they're all sides of the same coin). The CLASSICAL Liberal was the man who championed Liberty, which in turn gave birth to Capitalism.

Sadly, most people have no clue about the truth of this.
 
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