Obama's First Prime Time as Prez...

[Liar]

Y'know, I don't have a problem with people who have an agenda to push and identify it as such.



Thanks to the left for banning energy production, we now have an energy crisis. Was there one word about solving it with increased American production?

Health Care, of course, with government workers and union employees having the consumer pay for their lavish plans and now everyone wants it for free, sure, works for me.

I assume you meant, 'failing schools', it is not the real property of school buildings, not even the efficacy of teachers; it is the system of unaccountable public education that has failed.

Infrastructure is the same game, each State has a Department of Transportation and Roads. It is so politicized that repairs are only made as political payback. Put the infrastructure in the hands of private enterprise and you will have safe roads and bridges.

The United States of America took a big hit on September 11, 2001. During world war two all industry became war industries, there were no cars made, no new refrigerators or appliances for public consumption. The entire nation went to war.

We are at war and prosecuting that war at huge costs and you think that does not affect the economy? Katrina took a major toll in business and taxes as off shore oil wells and onshore refineries suffered damage and closed or cut back production.

The severity of this recession is rooted in the mortgages backed by Democrats in Fannie and Freddie, which led to the bank failures and investment firms failures.

None of those issues are being addressed by the new administration.

Go figure.

Amicus...

Just a question: Was this meant as a reply to me? I didn't even read Pelosi's comment below the part with the numbers and the chart. And I'm not interrested in it.

I just wanted to point out that this current trend is not just an exceptionally deep recession - it's an entirely different beast, not part of the normal business cycle. A business cycle of altering contractions and recessions has a pretty repetitive pattern, although the magnitude of each can vary. This one broke that pattern in the worst of ways. It's a vortex of suck. And therefore it needs something other than business as usual to pull oneself out of.

If what it needs is a one-year halt of any and all taxation, or a massive government spending bonanza, I don't know, since I'm not an economist.

But it's fairly evident that what happens with the economy is different, it is dramatic, it is bad, and it needs urgent and large scale response from those who have the capacity to respond.

 

[3113]

Trickle-down economics makes about as much sense to me as the idea that monsters live off the edge of my maps.

There are no monsters at the edges of the world? I suppose that means I can finally take a cruise....

 

[DesertPirate]

Funniest post ever.

"National Malaise" ring a bell? The phrase that got Reagan elcted because Carter had no hope for the future?

 

[cloudy]

"National Malaise" ring a bell? The phrase that got Reagan elcted because Carter had no hope for the future?

It's funny because you're too damn stuck to see the irony of what you said.

 

[jeninflorida]

Obama wants to limit CEO pay, okay...but since we are all in a mess why not limit what everyone in DC makes? Why not cap government pay for Obama, Senate, and the house? Also, limit all government upper management.

One great example is the post office and the never ending losses. If the CEO (or whatever the title is for the post office) is unable to balance the budget and break even all management must take a 1-10% pay cut.

And the same thing for any company that took money from the government.

What ya think?

 

[dr_mabeuse]

How dumb can you be? Obama can't limit the pay of anyone. He's making it a condition of receiving federal aid that the executives of Wall Steet banks not receive over $500,00 in compensation. He has no way of limiting the salaries of senators or anyone else.

What do you think, that he can just pass any law he wants? Like he's the King of the United States?

Don't you even know how your government works???

And the post office is a private enterprise now. They just receive government funding. If the head's not doing a good job, thank the Free Market system that privatized it.

 

[jeninflorida]

Wow, amazing how closed… and simple minded you are! Stop being so blind. It’s just an idea…or a thought if you will. If the government wants to put limits on the private sector why don’t they lead the way and put limits or “conditions” on government pay?

How dumb can you be? Obama can't limit the pay of anyone. He's making it a condition of receiving federal aid that the executives of Wall Steet banks not receive over $500,00 in compensation. He has no way of limiting the salaries of senators or anyone else.

What do you think, that he can just pass any law he wants? Like he's the King of the United States?

Don't you even know how your government works???

And the post office is a private enterprise now. They just receive government funding. If the head's not doing a good job, thank the Free Market system that privatized it.

 

[cloudy]

Wow, amazing how closed… and simple minded you are!

*holds up a mirror*

 

[jeninflorida]

And so what cloudy you think it’s okay for government to put “conditions” on the private sector and it’s not okay to put “conditions” on the government?

back at u!

*holds up a mirror*

 

[cloudy]

And so what cloudy you think it’s okay for government to put “conditions” on the private sector and it’s not okay to put “conditions” on the government?

back at u!

Good god, you are so fucking dense.

Obama can put conditions ONLY ON THOSE COMPANIES THAT ARE RECEIVING FEDERAL MONEY. He has already frozen government salaries, and he already makes less than the caps he is putting on CEOs....$100K less.

I can't put it in any smaller words than that.

 

[jeninflorida]

Why can’t you think outside of the box? Think about government as a whole…Why not question government spending and compensation…and not just for obama but for all of the government?

you missing the point

Good god, you are so fucking dense.

Obama can put conditions ONLY ON THOSE COMPANIES THAT ARE RECEIVING FEDERAL MONEY. He has already capped government salaries, and he already makes less than the caps he is putting on CEOs....$100K less.

I can't put it in any smaller words than that.

 

[DesertPirate]

Good god, you are so fucking dense.

Obama can put conditions ONLY ON THOSE COMPANIES THAT ARE RECEIVING FEDERAL MONEY. He has already frozen government salaries, and he already makes less than the caps he is putting on CEOs....$100K less.

I can't put it in any smaller words than that.

Since most up us know there is nobody in Govt. capable of running any business, except into the toilet like they have the country, that is enough reason to worry about Govt. control.

 

[jeninflorida]

Cloudy why are you so full of piss & vinegar?

Good god, you are so fucking dense.

Obama can put conditions ONLY ON THOSE COMPANIES THAT ARE RECEIVING FEDERAL MONEY. He has already frozen government salaries, and he already makes less than the caps he is putting on CEOs....$100K less.

I can't put it in any smaller words than that.

 

[cloudy]

Why can’t you think outside of the box? Think about government as a whole…Why not question government spending and compensation…and not just for obama but for all of the government?

you missing the point

It's useless to discuss anything at all with you. I give up.

You can't grasp basic concepts. When thwarted, you dart to another subject, or claim that wasn't what you were talking about, and then, if someone dares to show how little you understand about the subject, you call them "simple-minded."

I'm not even getting into how sometimes your posts are harder to translate than Tibetan due to your pre-school-like spelling, and your complete lack of knowledge concerning grammar.

The dimwit that messed up the kids' orders at McDonald's last night understands more about how government works than you do.

I'm done with you.

 

[jeninflorida]

Omg please! You go off on anyone that doesn’t agree with your point of view.

It's useless to discuss anything at all with you. I give up.

You can't grasp basic concepts. When thwarted, you dart to another subject, or claim that wasn't what you were talking about, and then, if someone dares to show how little you understand about the subject, you call them "simple-minded."

The dimwit that messed up the kids' orders at McDonald's last night understands more about how government works that you do.

I'm done with you.

 

[DesertPirate]

It's useless to discuss anything at all with you. I give up.

You can't grasp basic concepts. When thwarted, you dart to another subject, or claim that wasn't what you were talking about, and then, if someone dares to show how little you understand about the subject, you call them "simple-minded."

The dimwit that messed up the kids' orders at McDonald's last night understands more about how government works that you do.

I'm done with you.

Try grasping the basic concept that anything the Govt "gets into" drowns in a sea of wasted paper and becomes so inefficient that it's impossible for it to work.

 

[Liar]

Since most up us know there is nobody in Govt. capable of running any business, except into the toilet like they have the country, that is enough reason to worry about Govt. control.

From what I've seen lately, there's nobody in business capable of running any business either.

 

[Liar]

And so what cloudy you think it’s okay for government to put “conditions” on the private sector and it’s not okay to put “conditions” on the government?

Wait, what? There are no conditions on the public sector? On what planet?

 

[cantdog]

To answer the question, it was a very good press conference. Obama answered the questions at length and in detail (his answers were, in fact, maybe too detailed), and i don't know what you can ask for beyond that.

Geithner's speech the next day, on the other hand, was a disaster.

There's 2.3 million Americans facing home foreclosure right now. We're losing jobs at a rate of over 500,000 a month. There are no new jobs to replace them. Banks aren't lending money for business expansion

You lose your job, your home, what do you do? Tax cuts don't help if your income is zero, and as far as you're concerned, the unemployment rate is 100% where you live. We're only months away from a full-blown depression with unemployment rates of 25% and massive bank failures that will take us a decade to recover from.

We're in deep economic shit. We need a big shovel.

Deficits are beside the point, as well. If your goal really is for the government to, for example, show a surplus, think it through a bit. They get their money through taxation. You can't get very much from businesses by taxing losses, and you won't get much from taxing wages and salaries that are not being made because the jobs are gone. Sales and commerce, same way. It's all very well to have a belated desire to reduce deficits, but there has to be a working economy to draw from.

The war spending killed the last depression, and military spending makes things which are thrown away, wasted. All armaments are made to be thrown away; it's hardly even goods, it's waste. The money could have been used to make chocolate bunnies and Massey-Fergusons which were then thrown into the ocean-- it didn't signify what they were for. The economy produced things, and even though much war spending was deficit spending at the time, the economy grew and erased the problem. Criticism based on "OMG, this is spending!" or "But the deficit is growing!" misses the point.

 

[PamCarolson]

Well, that is big statement. There are a lot of ethical and good CEO’s out there, and I do believe that some CEO’s create value and earn every dollar of their pay. I have no issues with a CEO earning a million or more if the company is successful.

Wall Street and most banks, that is area is a mess? Wall Street is very greedy, why did they need those bonuses? And to hear the Wall Street say that they had to give the bonuses to key employees or they would lose key employees….where would these employees go? Please what jobs are left on Wall Street?

Jumping subjects, I think Jen was saying that if a company takes money from the government that those companies have to limit the pay for the CEO’s to (I can’t remember if its 400,000 or 500,000) a year. Now, (for a silly question) does that include stock options?

Wait, what? There are no conditions on the public sector? On what planet?

 

[rgraham666]

Since most up us know there is nobody in Govt. capable of running any business, except into the toilet like they have the country, that is enough reason to worry about Govt. control.

I guess we'll have to shut down the armed forces, the justice system, the CIA, the FBI, all the state and city police departments and the fire departments then and hand them over to the private sector.

Since government can never do anything right and business can never do anything wrong.

Oh. And you still haven't offered a different timeline for what matters the Bush National Security Council talked about. Nor my question about whether you oppose clean drinking water for Americans.

 

[PamCarolson]

Even though I am anti government, the police, intelligence, and the military can’t go private.


outside of those agencies, what can the government do efficiency? By default government is setup to fail, they operate from a budget and will spend every last dollar...and then some

the old saying, "give goverment a dollar this year and they will expect five next year"

[


QUOTE=rgraham666;30124388]I guess we'll have to shut down the armed forces, the justice system, the CIA, the FBI, all the state and city police departments and the fire departments then and hand them over to the private sector.

Since government can never do anything right and business can never do anything wrong.

Oh. And you still haven't offered a different timeline for what matters the Bush National Security Council talked about. Nor my question about whether you oppose clean drinking water for Americans.[/QUOTE]

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

One more time, dummies...Hitler destroyed America's global competition and THAT ended the Depression. America destroyed Japan, and that helped, too. But huge expenditures for the military didnt end the Depression because who in Hell wants a goddamn tank or submarine? Recall that most consumer stuff was rationed in the war. You couldnt buy a steak or gasoline or nylons or crap. After the war we had the world to ourselves for about 20 years.

Read Thomas Paine's COMMONSENSE. He wasnt kind to government.

 

[PamCarolson]

That is true, I can’t remember the guy who went to Japan to teach them how to run an enterprise…how much money did the US government pump into Europe and Asia? I’m guessing that to rebuild factories it was American manufactured items that went to rebuild the world after WWII?

One more time, dummies...Hitler destroyed America's global competition and THAT ended the Depression. America destroyed Japan, and that helped, too. But huge expenditures for the military didnt end the Depression because who in Hell wants a goddamn tank or submarine? Recall that most consumer stuff was rationed in the war. You couldnt buy a steak or gasoline or nylons or crap. After the war we had the world to ourselves for about 20 years.

Read Thomas Paine's COMMONSENSE. He wasnt kind to government.

 

[rgraham666]

Even though I am anti government, the police, intelligence, and the military can’t go private.


outside of those agencies, what can the government do efficiency? By default government is setup to fail, they operate from a budget and will spend every last dollar...and then some

the old saying, "give goverment a dollar this year and they will expect five next year"

Well, living in Canada, I'm quite fond of our public healthcare.

And if you want to go the 'efficient' route ours is more efficient. We spend less money and our health indicators are better than the U.S.

The problem is that every one enters these debates with a particular a priori pair of assumptions. These assumptions are either 'Business is good and government is bad' or 'Business is bad and government is good'.

But business and government are just tools and tools have no ethical component. They are neither good nor bad. They can only be used for the purposes the users decide they can be used for. That can be good or bad.

It's a poor workman that blames his tools.

And as long as we're dragging out old quotes. Ahem. "Gentlemen of the same trade never meet, even if for merriment and diversion, but it ends in a conspiracy against the public." - Adam Smith. Yes, that Adam Smith