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CutieMouse
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It's really not that complicated - have her return the Webkinz-thing to the store ASAP, with an apology. If the shop has a security patrol, ask to speak to them, explain the situation, ask the guard to explain what happens to shoplifters. If the shop doesn't have a security patrol, call the local precinct, explain the situation, and ask if you and your daughter can drop by for a tour/chat with an officer about right and wrong. The whole thing should take an hour at most, remind little angel she's still loved (even when her actions aren't), that said behavior will not be tolerated in the future, and move on.
Ladythunder
Dream or Nightmare?
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Sending a pm...give me some time, it will be a long one, but a note here to let you know someone's listening as I know how you must be feeling.
Betticus
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Having to face the people you wronged and apologize is one of the best ways to start. If she can look you in the eye after you caught her stealing and not cough up the other toy you may have a serious problem on your hands.
I'd go through the computer and find out everything she's been doing, they also make capture devices you can hook up that will allow you to see all activity.
Check out her friends closely, kids don't normally do this kind of thing on their own personal recognizance. Ask yourself what kind of event or exposure could turn her inward like that to the point where she isn't showing you the trust and respect that you should have. She's acting older than she should with the subversive behaviour. Misbehaving and acting out with no sign of remorse is also a sign of abuse so make sure to check for that as well. I've seen several kids who were just friends with someone who was an abuse victim where the other kid will act out the abuse on the more innocent one. Kind of a gift that keeps giving thing.
You can also check with the police dept. and see if they have a program where an officer can come out and talk with her. They can usually spot things that others miss completely.
I don't recommend spanking before eliminating all other causes. *shock to hear that on a bdsm forum huh*
Good luck. I'd have said it was normal but your description of lack of remorse and the deception raises flags.
I'd go through the computer and find out everything she's been doing, they also make capture devices you can hook up that will allow you to see all activity.
Check out her friends closely, kids don't normally do this kind of thing on their own personal recognizance. Ask yourself what kind of event or exposure could turn her inward like that to the point where she isn't showing you the trust and respect that you should have. She's acting older than she should with the subversive behaviour. Misbehaving and acting out with no sign of remorse is also a sign of abuse so make sure to check for that as well. I've seen several kids who were just friends with someone who was an abuse victim where the other kid will act out the abuse on the more innocent one. Kind of a gift that keeps giving thing.
You can also check with the police dept. and see if they have a program where an officer can come out and talk with her. They can usually spot things that others miss completely.
I don't recommend spanking before eliminating all other causes. *shock to hear that on a bdsm forum huh*
Good luck. I'd have said it was normal but your description of lack of remorse and the deception raises flags.
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Betticus
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I think hitting would have made her trust you less. At least that's what it did to me as a child unless it was for my old habit of running into the street. I at least understood that it was for my own good that time.
Sounds like what you need is something that will teach her the lesson and at the same time further the bond of trust between you.
BigJayLiverpool
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As a Security Supervisor I see this alot in my job Children stealing sweets, toys, Games etc etc As I don't Understand as I don't kids how you feel what I will say is that Children that age probably have no sense of what they are doing. They probably have no idea of the consequences unless like you've said you've spoke to your child. I don't obviously condone Children shopliftin but I can understand it especially if they have no discipline from parents which I'm not saying the case is here. All I'm saying is they have temptation for something and they dont understand the consequences. Sorry to go on but just throwing my opinion in
clock1
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Yeah for people who do not Spank their children (save it for BDSM activities where it is appreciated). You are right a spanking would not have been near as effective as the course of action you have outlined. I raised 4 children (4 college degrees among three with the youngest still in college) without ever using spankings. Lots of long conversations, other suitable punishments like J has come up with.
I did have a 3 year old take a marble from a bucket at a small store once. I made her take it back inside, where the store owner said "Oh she is so cute she can have the marble." I replied "No she can not, she stole it. She needs to know how wrong that is." The manager picked up on what I was saying and proceded to give her a very stern, but "nice" lecture. (Both of her older siblings 5 and 7 watched wide eyed.) Never a problem again with any of them. (They all worked their butts off for bicycles, clothing, cars, and anything else they wanted. (That was also great motivation for education, since by HS they all knew professionals make more money than laborers.)
Young kids sometimes take things/need to learn life lessons. Sounds like this mom (and hert daughter) are well on the way to making this a blip on the road toward maturity.
CutieMouse
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Her reaction is actually very age appropriate - she was probably so tied up in knots over getting caught again (especially if there was any degree of blow up over it) that she rationalized the lie about Webkinz #2.
My advice would be to deal with it tomorrow (apologize/talk with an authority figure), then put it behind you. At 7 she probably doesn't have the time associative abilities to connect a month's worth of grounding with The Great Webkinz Theft of '09.
RJMasters
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Here might be a couple of things to consider.
Well, if you have a friend with whom your child doesn't know and they are willing to go along, you could have the friend show up and explain that your freind was there from the store. Make her go and stand by her room outside her door. Then after minute, have your friend go into her room with you while she is still standing out side, and have your friend pickout one of her most favorite things in her room and take it. Then walk out making sure that she sees it. Perhaps when she herself feels what its like when someone takes something of hers and feels the personal lost, she will better understand then why its wrong to steal.
Another idea which might even be better would be to talk with the store manager and arrange a little lesson. The following day you take your daughter with you and go back to the store, the manager waits for you by the door and when he sees you coming he meets you both at the door and very loudly and publicly says, I am sorry Maam but you are not allowed to ever come back to our store. Our security cameras caught your daughter stealing and we no longer will allow you or your family to come back here. Perhaps when you daughter sees you having to pay the price in public humilation, it will drive home the point of how wrong it was for her to steal.
The point of spanking when it is administered correctly and controlled is to teach that there are "real" consequences to bad actions, much like having to swat away a childs hand from touching a hot plate. They might not understand why they got their hand slapped, but it does help teach them and more importantly keeps them safe until they grow up enough to understand on their own. Since you don't use spanking, you need to devise another way to teach your child about the real consequences of stealing and why it is bad. Short of something like the two suggestions I made above, I am not sure what else you can do.
When I took/stole a peice of candy as a kid, my mom waited for my dad to get home and then dad put me in the car and drove me down to the store and made me face the store manager and apologize for taking it. My dad didn't say anything to me the whole time until we got back into the car and then he simply said, today he was ashamed of me. He didn't say it in anger, he said it very calmly and it was the first and only time he ever said that he was ashamed of me and I knew he meant it. I would have gladly taken a spanking to pay for what I did rather than hearing my dad say that to me.
Well, if you have a friend with whom your child doesn't know and they are willing to go along, you could have the friend show up and explain that your freind was there from the store. Make her go and stand by her room outside her door. Then after minute, have your friend go into her room with you while she is still standing out side, and have your friend pickout one of her most favorite things in her room and take it. Then walk out making sure that she sees it. Perhaps when she herself feels what its like when someone takes something of hers and feels the personal lost, she will better understand then why its wrong to steal.
Another idea which might even be better would be to talk with the store manager and arrange a little lesson. The following day you take your daughter with you and go back to the store, the manager waits for you by the door and when he sees you coming he meets you both at the door and very loudly and publicly says, I am sorry Maam but you are not allowed to ever come back to our store. Our security cameras caught your daughter stealing and we no longer will allow you or your family to come back here. Perhaps when you daughter sees you having to pay the price in public humilation, it will drive home the point of how wrong it was for her to steal.
The point of spanking when it is administered correctly and controlled is to teach that there are "real" consequences to bad actions, much like having to swat away a childs hand from touching a hot plate. They might not understand why they got their hand slapped, but it does help teach them and more importantly keeps them safe until they grow up enough to understand on their own. Since you don't use spanking, you need to devise another way to teach your child about the real consequences of stealing and why it is bad. Short of something like the two suggestions I made above, I am not sure what else you can do.
When I took/stole a peice of candy as a kid, my mom waited for my dad to get home and then dad put me in the car and drove me down to the store and made me face the store manager and apologize for taking it. My dad didn't say anything to me the whole time until we got back into the car and then he simply said, today he was ashamed of me. He didn't say it in anger, he said it very calmly and it was the first and only time he ever said that he was ashamed of me and I knew he meant it. I would have gladly taken a spanking to pay for what I did rather than hearing my dad say that to me.
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Netzach
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I think Betticus and CM nailed this one perfectly, pretty much. I do think that it's important to not let too much time lapse before the apologies are handed out at the store - letting her live in dread too long or long enough for the moment to lose impact would be equally as bad.
I remember my only theft, well, sorta. It was accidental - I was looking at this snowman candle in a drugstore and literally forgot to put it back. My mother believed the look of "oh no, holy shit" I must have had. I was a really really good kid but a space cadet.
I remember my only theft, well, sorta. It was accidental - I was looking at this snowman candle in a drugstore and literally forgot to put it back. My mother believed the look of "oh no, holy shit" I must have had. I was a really really good kid but a space cadet.
wicked woman
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Is your child normally well behaved? If so I'd do two things. First I agree with taking her to the store as soon as possible to return the toy and to apologize. Hopefully you'll get someone who knows better than to make light of it with 'oh kids are always doing that'. If she's consciencous she'll be embarassed enough to prevent her from doing it again.
The other thing I'd do is have a talk with her about how important trust is. That no matter what she does....even if it's something you don't approve of...that if she lies about it...the lying makes it much worse because then you won't be able to trust her. And trust is a very difficult thing to earn back. It might take more than one occasion to explain but eventually she'll get it.
and yes it's not uncommon for young children to take something they want. Doesn't mean it has to escalate.
The other thing I'd do is have a talk with her about how important trust is. That no matter what she does....even if it's something you don't approve of...that if she lies about it...the lying makes it much worse because then you won't be able to trust her. And trust is a very difficult thing to earn back. It might take more than one occasion to explain but eventually she'll get it.
and yes it's not uncommon for young children to take something they want. Doesn't mean it has to escalate.
BiBunny
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Same here. It wasn't the cops I was afraid of, though. I knew both my father and my mother would beat the holy hell out of me if I did something like that. There's something to be said about putting the fear of God into a kid.
FurryFury
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Honestly, when I was a kid, my mom found out I'd been playing with Shaving Cream in a store and made me confess to the manager. I never did that again.
Of course later my parents actually required that I steal for them. That ended when I stood up to them but it really sucked.
That was my parents, always flip flopping around. I could never been good enough for them because the rules changed.
But anyway, I do think taking the toy and money with a letter of apology is essential in cases like this.
Super Nanny did a show with a child who shoplifted. She played a game with the child to drive home the point that you must pay for things before you leave the store. It was a simple thing but supposedly worked.
Of course later my parents actually required that I steal for them. That ended when I stood up to them but it really sucked.
That was my parents, always flip flopping around. I could never been good enough for them because the rules changed.
But anyway, I do think taking the toy and money with a letter of apology is essential in cases like this.
Super Nanny did a show with a child who shoplifted. She played a game with the child to drive home the point that you must pay for things before you leave the store. It was a simple thing but supposedly worked.
iluvyou3638
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Homburg
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Stealing? So far, none of my kids have stolen anything to my knowledge. I, to my memories, never stole anything from a retail establishment. I stole a pile of pens, paper, etc from my dad's units, but stealing from the government is an art practiced by virtually every citizen. I just did it on the petty scale.
That said, I have handled shoplifting from the security guard standpoint. I've never been the one to give the lecture (I was too scary apparently), but have stood by and been told to look scary while the manager gave the lecture. Overall, I would take that tack as a parent. Take the kid into the store, and allow the store management to handle it in an appropriate fashion. You are highly unlikely to find a store that will try to press charges on a 7 year old kid who is apologising and bringing the product back. But many will happily give the stern lecture so as to try to prevent more shoplifting in the future.
As to spanking, I spank under exactly one circumstance - lying. I do not tolerate it, and they know it. If they lie to me or anyone else in the house, and get caught in that lie, a spanking may well be the result. Other than that, there may be lecturing, a chewing out, standing in the corner, loss of toys, computer priviledges, etc. Depends on the offense. If I catch one stealing, they ar ehighly likely to be hauled before the store manager to do exactly as you are doing.
That said, I have handled shoplifting from the security guard standpoint. I've never been the one to give the lecture (I was too scary apparently), but have stood by and been told to look scary while the manager gave the lecture. Overall, I would take that tack as a parent. Take the kid into the store, and allow the store management to handle it in an appropriate fashion. You are highly unlikely to find a store that will try to press charges on a 7 year old kid who is apologising and bringing the product back. But many will happily give the stern lecture so as to try to prevent more shoplifting in the future.
As to spanking, I spank under exactly one circumstance - lying. I do not tolerate it, and they know it. If they lie to me or anyone else in the house, and get caught in that lie, a spanking may well be the result. Other than that, there may be lecturing, a chewing out, standing in the corner, loss of toys, computer priviledges, etc. Depends on the offense. If I catch one stealing, they ar ehighly likely to be hauled before the store manager to do exactly as you are doing.
Homburg
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I've never had a problem with being afraid of cops. It probably comes from being very young and seeing a city cop in the states and thinking "Pssh, my daddy carries bigger guns that that." John Law was just not impressive to me compared the Army. And growing up in the military life, I get along with that sort of authority just fine.
That said, there have been cops that have pissed me off. You can smell the ones that enjoy the authority a bit too much. Happily, from working security and getting to know a LOT of cops, even the police hate dicks like that and they try to weed them out (in good depts)
00Syd
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My parents were (are) authority-hating (paranoid) punks and our upstairs neighbor who often babysat me was a video artist who would get me to play into his cop-paranoid (in his defense, he was beat up by the cops a lot during the 80s, and constantly had his camera "confiscated") state of mind for the sake of art. I remember when I was really little he tried to get me to say the word "cop" in front of the camera and I actually thought it was a bad word and if I said it they would come get me, so I was too afraid to. I also thought that if I didn't tell my parents that I loved them every time we walked past police they would think I was kidnapped and take me away from them. There was no fucking way I was going to steal anything, haha.
intothewoods
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Aw, poor thing! Although I do find it kind of amusing that your authority-hating parents turned you into a law-abiding citizen!
I never stole anything as a kid either. My mother would have killed me, though she never spanked either. She really didn't need to.
I agree with CM's advice and assessment.
eastern sun
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I was a thief. I shoplifted for years. It was part of my double life.
Good on the outside. Bad on the inside.
And I perfected the art of looking like a good girl, so I never got caught. I think I gave everyone - my parents, my teachers - the image they wanted to see, and they were so caught up in their own lives, they didn't look below the surface.
But my acting out (my "bad self") was my attempt to let them know that all was not well at the roots.
It wasn't until I went into recovery for drug addiction and alcoholism that I eventually stopped stealing things.
I think I wanted my parents to pay more attention to me, and love the bad in me as much as the good. Or at least forgive me for being bad, and teach me how to "work with" the bad stuff.
In retrospect, I don't think they knew how to work with their "bad stuff." How could they teach me?
Good on the outside. Bad on the inside.
And I perfected the art of looking like a good girl, so I never got caught. I think I gave everyone - my parents, my teachers - the image they wanted to see, and they were so caught up in their own lives, they didn't look below the surface.
But my acting out (my "bad self") was my attempt to let them know that all was not well at the roots.
It wasn't until I went into recovery for drug addiction and alcoholism that I eventually stopped stealing things.
I think I wanted my parents to pay more attention to me, and love the bad in me as much as the good. Or at least forgive me for being bad, and teach me how to "work with" the bad stuff.
In retrospect, I don't think they knew how to work with their "bad stuff." How could they teach me?
