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Well, then. Bush should be proud.
He did bring Democracy to Iraq after all.
Whether they wanted it or not.
Shoes Thrown at Bush as a "Farewell Kiss"
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Well, then. Bush should be proud.
He did bring Democracy to Iraq after all.
Whether they wanted it or not.
NoJo
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Throws shoes playfully at SSS's head
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JAMESBJOHNSON
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The first time an ass-clown tosses something at Obama, the Usual Suspects here will howl with outrage.
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This is actually quite humorous.
Iraqi officials have jailed the shoe-throwing journalist, but people are calling for his release "in accordance with the democratic era and the freedom of expression that Iraqis were promised by U.S. authorities."
*snerk*
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE4BE28Q20081215
Iraqi officials have jailed the shoe-throwing journalist, but people are calling for his release "in accordance with the democratic era and the freedom of expression that Iraqis were promised by U.S. authorities."
*snerk*
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE4BE28Q20081215
sr71plt
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Mind you, the Iraqis themselves haven't been doing all that much to help. So, I wouldn't just say it was a botched job by the United States and its allies (whoever those still are).
dr_mabeuse
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sr71plt
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I don't agree with this. And I think I could say that I'm following this very, very closely--from original sources.
dr_mabeuse
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So they see the invasion as an expression of the will of the American people? What do they make of our not electing McCain, then?
sr71plt
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No. They have a vague notion of a separation of the American people and the American nation. That's not what you asserted, though. What they don't see is Bush personifying the American nation. That's what your statement made same same. On January 21st when Obama hasn't made everything naturally better for them (without the Iraqis themselves having to lift a finger), they just identify him with the suppressive American nation.
dr_mabeuse
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Brother Explains Shoe-Throwing Incident
BAGHDAD — The brother of Muntader al-Zaidi, the Iraqi journalist who threw his shoes at President Bush during a joint press conference on Sunday with Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki, said Monday that he was “proud of his brother - as all Iraqis would be.”
Muntader al-Zaidi remains in Iraqi custody. When his brother, Maythem al-Zaidi, 28, called his cell phone at midnight, a man claiming to be one of the prime minister’s bodyguards answered. Maythem al-Zaidi said that the bodyguard threatened, “that they will get us all.”
Hitting someone with a shoe is a particularly strong rebuke in Iraqi culture. Although the president was uninjured, the incident overshadowed media coverage of the trip in the Arab world. And it has transformed Muntader al-Zaidi into a symbolic figure in the debate about the American military’s presence in Iraq.
Maythem al-Zaidi said his brother had not planned to throw his shoes prior to Sunday. “He was provoked when Mr. Bush said [during the news conference] this is his farewell gift to the Iraqi people,” he said. A colleague of Muntader al-Zaidi’s at al-Baghdadiya satellite channel, however, said the correspondent had been “planning for this from a long time. He told me that his dream is to hit Bush with shoes,” said the man, who would not give his name.
Muntader al-Zaidi appears to have a long-standing dislike of the United States presence in Iraq. He used to finish his reports by saying he was in “the occupied Baghdad.” His brother said that he hates the occupation so strongly that he canceled his wedding, saying: “I will marry when the occupation is over.”
The correspondent for Al Baghdadiya, an independent Iraqi television station, had previously been detained in November 2007 for two weeks by “a particular party” — his brother didn’t reveal whether American or Iraqi –- after videotaping the scene of an improvised explosive device that targeted an American Humvee. He was held again two months later for several hours by the American army without charges, his brother said. Other reports said he had been kidnapped by Shiite militants.
Muntader al-Zaidi was the head of the student union under Saddam Hussein and he earned a diploma as a mechanic from a technical institute before becoming a journalist. He worked at al-Qasim al-Mushterek newspaper, an Iraqi daily founded after the 2003 invasion, then he joined al-Diyar satellite channel, an Iraqi channel founded after the war. Two years later, he joined al-Baghdadiya satellite channel, another Iraqi channel, which is based in Cairo.
Maythem al-Zaidi contacted a judge to ask him if what his brother did is a crime under Iraqi law. The judge told him that he might serve two years in prison or pay a fine for insulting a president of foreign country unless Mr. Bush withdrew the case. “If they manage to imprison Muntader, there are millions of him all over Iraq and the Arab world,” Maythem al-Zaidi said.
Maythem al-Zaidi said has been contacted from about 100 Iraqi and foreign lawyers offering their services free of charge — including Saddam Hussein’s lawyer Khalil al-Dulaymi. When asked if he will accept Mr. al-Dulaymi’s services, he replied, “Why not, we are all Iraqis.”
The Rusafa office of Moktada al-Sadr organized a demonstration in Sadr City to support the shoe thrower. Across Iraq, everyone seems to have an opinion about the case.
According to his brother, Muntader al-Zaidi is “a calm man.” Both of his parents are dead, and he has 10 other siblings. Maythem al-Zaidi said that his brother is politically independent, but several people who know him mentioned that he was a Baathist who turned into a Sadrist after the war.
Meanwhile, al-Baghdadiya satellite channel’s Baghdad bureau chief is not responding to reporters to comment on the incident and he prevented all his staff of doing so.
BAGHDAD — The brother of Muntader al-Zaidi, the Iraqi journalist who threw his shoes at President Bush during a joint press conference on Sunday with Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki, said Monday that he was “proud of his brother - as all Iraqis would be.”
Muntader al-Zaidi remains in Iraqi custody. When his brother, Maythem al-Zaidi, 28, called his cell phone at midnight, a man claiming to be one of the prime minister’s bodyguards answered. Maythem al-Zaidi said that the bodyguard threatened, “that they will get us all.”
Hitting someone with a shoe is a particularly strong rebuke in Iraqi culture. Although the president was uninjured, the incident overshadowed media coverage of the trip in the Arab world. And it has transformed Muntader al-Zaidi into a symbolic figure in the debate about the American military’s presence in Iraq.
Maythem al-Zaidi said his brother had not planned to throw his shoes prior to Sunday. “He was provoked when Mr. Bush said [during the news conference] this is his farewell gift to the Iraqi people,” he said. A colleague of Muntader al-Zaidi’s at al-Baghdadiya satellite channel, however, said the correspondent had been “planning for this from a long time. He told me that his dream is to hit Bush with shoes,” said the man, who would not give his name.
Muntader al-Zaidi appears to have a long-standing dislike of the United States presence in Iraq. He used to finish his reports by saying he was in “the occupied Baghdad.” His brother said that he hates the occupation so strongly that he canceled his wedding, saying: “I will marry when the occupation is over.”
The correspondent for Al Baghdadiya, an independent Iraqi television station, had previously been detained in November 2007 for two weeks by “a particular party” — his brother didn’t reveal whether American or Iraqi –- after videotaping the scene of an improvised explosive device that targeted an American Humvee. He was held again two months later for several hours by the American army without charges, his brother said. Other reports said he had been kidnapped by Shiite militants.
Muntader al-Zaidi was the head of the student union under Saddam Hussein and he earned a diploma as a mechanic from a technical institute before becoming a journalist. He worked at al-Qasim al-Mushterek newspaper, an Iraqi daily founded after the 2003 invasion, then he joined al-Diyar satellite channel, an Iraqi channel founded after the war. Two years later, he joined al-Baghdadiya satellite channel, another Iraqi channel, which is based in Cairo.
Maythem al-Zaidi contacted a judge to ask him if what his brother did is a crime under Iraqi law. The judge told him that he might serve two years in prison or pay a fine for insulting a president of foreign country unless Mr. Bush withdrew the case. “If they manage to imprison Muntader, there are millions of him all over Iraq and the Arab world,” Maythem al-Zaidi said.
Maythem al-Zaidi said has been contacted from about 100 Iraqi and foreign lawyers offering their services free of charge — including Saddam Hussein’s lawyer Khalil al-Dulaymi. When asked if he will accept Mr. al-Dulaymi’s services, he replied, “Why not, we are all Iraqis.”
The Rusafa office of Moktada al-Sadr organized a demonstration in Sadr City to support the shoe thrower. Across Iraq, everyone seems to have an opinion about the case.
According to his brother, Muntader al-Zaidi is “a calm man.” Both of his parents are dead, and he has 10 other siblings. Maythem al-Zaidi said that his brother is politically independent, but several people who know him mentioned that he was a Baathist who turned into a Sadrist after the war.
Meanwhile, al-Baghdadiya satellite channel’s Baghdad bureau chief is not responding to reporters to comment on the incident and he prevented all his staff of doing so.
OhMissScarlett
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Well, everyone knows I can't stand Shrub, but I have to admit, he stood there and didn't jump behind the podium after the first shoe. Er, unless he figured the guy only had one shoe to throw. 
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JAMESBJOHNSON
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Well, I dislike Bush more than anyone, but tossing a shoe at him didnt accomplish much in the way of substantive damage. So the whole thing was symbolic impotence. Bush shoulda cut the man's balls off and stuffed them in the guys mouth.
The guy wouldnt have tossed a shoe at Julius Caesar or Augustus or Tiberius. He'd be kitty treats for the tigers before the shoe left his hand.
The guy wouldnt have tossed a shoe at Julius Caesar or Augustus or Tiberius. He'd be kitty treats for the tigers before the shoe left his hand.
shereads
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He's not on trial for war crimes. That's enough respect.
Edited to add: According to CNN this morning, the shoe-throwing incident is being charged as an assault on the President of Iraq, not on Dubya. Nobody gives a flying wingtip about Dubya.
A little collateral damage, and gratitude goes right out the window.
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sr71plt
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Well, everyone knows I can't stand Shrub, but I have to admit, he stood there and didn't jump behind the podium after the first shoe. Er, unless he figured the guy only had one shoe to throw.
I've always given credit to George the Lesser for responding in good humor too. He doesn't get stuffy about these things.
3113
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*shrug* My perspective, in the end, is that it just seems apt. A president starts an ill-conceived, poorly planned, outrageously expensive and wasteful war that outs a tyrant, but, ironically, leaves a void in the power structure leading to religious civil war (but don't call it that). His hand picked companies get paid a lot of money but don't accomplish much of anything, his hired mercenaries commit crimes, and those in the green zone sit back and do nothing. After years of occupation (and we're not gone yet), he goes to said country to boast about what a great job he's done giving them civilization and freedom. As if to say, "You can thank me now."
And an Iraqi journalist answers this by throwing his shoes.
Kinda says it all.
And an Iraqi journalist answers this by throwing his shoes.
Kinda says it all.
Katyusha
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Emphasis mine.
The office deserves respect. The man holding the office, however, doesn't necessarily. I wholly respect the office of the president. But I cannot hold the man who currently occupies it in anything but contempt for what he has done over the last eight years.
Katyusha
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Amen.
sr71plt
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To the extent that the article Dr. M. posted is complete and accurate, the journalist was set off specifically by a dumb Bush statement, but he was motivated by opposition to the larger-picture American presence in Iraq (which would be a response to the U.S. nation). And a balanced look would have to acknowledge that there wouldn't need to be an American presence still if the Iraqis pulled themselves up and stopped acting just like Iraqis always act. (Which was my argument against intervening in the first place--the Iraqis were still going to be Iraqis no matter what. Saddam Hussain wasn't an anomally.)
But, beyond that, physical assault is actionable in both Iraq and the United States--whether it's targeted at a president or a private citizen. I see no need to let every aspect of civilized behavior crumble around a bad president passing through office.
sr71plt
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Tilt to this and to the subsequent "Amen" to this. There is a realm of international law that apparently can't be seen from Topeka. In fact, back through the mists of times, there's been an understanding of a concomitant treatment/regard for emissaries and representatives showing up in other countries. And there has been universal shock and calumny produced whenever it is breached (the sending of ambassador's heads back, for instance--and this was what was so shocking in international realms when the Iranians invaded the U.S. embassy and held the diplomats there hostage for a year. The Iranians were making an earth-shattering point that apparently is lost to those in Topeka).
The quoted statement here is just ignorant and provincial.
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As much as I detest the Shrub, I must agree with your statement on respect of other nation's leaders.
Um - Topeka?
sr71plt
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As much as I detest the Shrub, I must agree with your statement on respect of other nation's leaders.
Um - Topeka?
As you well know, I'm sure, I don't exactly shake the pom-poms for the shrub either.
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Laughing -
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