Bettie Page - 23 Apr 31/ 11 Dec 08

[Breaker_Morant]

With deep personal sadness I must announce that my dear friend and client Bettie Page passed away at 6:41pm PST this evening in a Los Angles hospital. She died peacefully but had never regained consciousness after suffering a heart attack nine days ago.

She captured the imagination of a generation of men and women with her free spirit and unabashed sensuality. She is the embodiment of beauty.

Statement by Mark Roesler, business agent for Bettie Page​

website

 

[Betticus]

Fuck!

 

[Yasashii_Kaze]

Goddammit.

 

[RedHeadedGlory]

Aww

May she rest in peace.

 

[Homburg]

I am honestly saddened by this.

Godspeed, Pin-up Queen.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x95/Sir_Winston54/bettie_page_pinup_22.jpg

She will be missed.

But we are fortunate that so much of her work remains available.

Nonetheless,

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x95/Sir_Winston54/smiles_407.gif

 

[Homburg]

But we are fortunate that so much of her work remains available.

Yes, and speaking of her work, here's some 2600 pics she did. There are a lot of shots in there I've not seen anything close to. The second gallery starts out with the bondage stuff. She may have thought it light-hearted and silly, but, dayum. There was one pic of her tied to a large ottoman... Have mercy.

http://www9.kinghost.com/fetish/epoque/section2.htm

 

[Breaker_Morant]

Yes, and speaking of her work, here's some 2600 pics she did. There are a lot of shots in there I've not seen anything close to. The second gallery starts out with the bondage stuff. She may have thought it light-hearted and silly, but, dayum. There was one pic of her tied to a large ottoman... Have mercy.

http://www9.kinghost.com/fetish/epoque/section2.htm

Pervs R Us.

Thanks for the link, H

 

[Windflower]

Thanks for sharing the link, Homburg. Great stuff there.
I especially love this image from that 2nd Gallery:
http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo227/allyourpixelsbelongstous/BPBON50.jpg

Yes, and speaking of her work, here's some 2600 pics she did. There are a lot of shots in there I've not seen anything close to. The second gallery starts out with the bondage stuff. She may have thought it light-hearted and silly, but, dayum. There was one pic of her tied to a large ottoman... Have mercy.

http://www9.kinghost.com/fetish/epoque/section2.htm

 

[JMohegan]

It seems as if the Bettie Page some people are mourning "died" about 60 years ago.

Perky pinup shots aside, what's written about her life indicates that it was far from happy. And her absolute refusal to be photographed in later years betrays a self image that's unfortunate, to say the least.

 

[CutieMouse]

It seems as if the Bettie Page some people are mourning "died" about 60 years ago.

Perky pinup shots aside, what's written about her life indicates that it was far from happy. And her absolute refusal to be photographed in later years betrays a self image that's unfortunate, to say the least.

That was my thought, as well.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

It seems as if the Bettie Page some people are mourning "died" about 60 years ago.

Perky pinup shots aside, what's written about her life indicates that it was far from happy. And her absolute refusal to be photographed in later years betrays a self image that's unfortunate, to say the least.

True (probably). However, the pleasure she brought to others, me included, is good reason to mourn her passing. After all, Marilyn Monroe's life was far from happy, either, and we still honor and celebrate her and the pleasure she brought us.

 

[00Syd]

Awwwww

 

[JMohegan]

True (probably). However, the pleasure she brought to others, me included, is good reason to mourn her passing. After all, Marilyn Monroe's life was far from happy, either, and we still honor and celebrate her and the pleasure she brought us.

You are expressing appreciation for the work Page did in the 50's. I am expressing compassion for the way she lived her life. This isn't a good/bad thing, just different perspectives.

Marilyn Monroe is a good analogy. I do not honor or celebrate her, but I do feel compassion for the circumstances of her life.

 

[jockdom]

R.I.P a real beauty. She was a myspace friend

 

[unpredictablebijou]

She is, and always will be, one of my personal heroes. Watching her films, one really got a sense of joy when she danced. She seemed to really be having a good time, and to enjoy her body and her effect on an audience.

May her journey be a joyful one, and may she pass through the gates gracefully, dancing all the way.

bj

 

[Homburg]

It seems as if the Bettie Page some people are mourning "died" about 60 years ago.

I wasn't alive to be saddened by the passing of her professional career, but I can still be saddened by her passing.

Perky pinup shots aside, what's written about her life indicates that it was far from happy. And her absolute refusal to be photographed in later years betrays a self image that's unfortunate, to say the least.

Her life was rough. Some people just can't catch a break.

I disagree, to an extent about the self image comments. There is something to be said about wanting to leave your fans only the image from her peak. She is just not going to be that perky dark-haired woman at 85, and what she looks like now has no positive impact on Bettie Page as an icon. So why show it? There is also the common thread through published conversations and the occasional interview that made clear that she did not want to associate herself with that time on a day to day basis. When working for various ministries, I can imagine that common knowledge that she was the pin-up of Hollywood in the 50's would be potentially difficult.

 

[JMohegan]

I wasn't alive to be saddened by the passing of her professional career, but I can still be saddened by her passing.



Her life was rough. Some people just can't catch a break.

I disagree, to an extent about the self image comments. There is something to be said about wanting to leave your fans only the image from her peak. She is just not going to be that perky dark-haired woman at 85, and what she looks like now has no positive impact on Bettie Page as an icon. So why show it? There is also the common thread through published conversations and the occasional interview that made clear that she did not want to associate herself with that time on a day to day basis. When working for various ministries, I can imagine that common knowledge that she was the pin-up of Hollywood in the 50's would be potentially difficult.

You are expressing sadness over her passing. I am expressing sadness over the information in the obituary summaries of her life. This is not a right/wrong thing, just different perspectives.

Sexually molested by her father, she spent time in an orphanage as a child. She suffered from depression, acute schizophrenia, multiple divorces, and 8 years under state supervision as a post-pinup adult. In part, those facts explain my expression of compassion for her life.

In addition, I find it extremely ironic and really, bitterly, sad that a woman who became a symbol of sexual freedom and celebration of human sensuality would seemingly shut down those parts of her life at age 35.

Perhaps it is because I am 50, and know women in my age group who are still sexually vibrant, physically beautiful, and confident in their sustained sensuality, that I perceive Page's bio this way. Looking at her as an actual human being, not a mythologized icon, I see a tragic figure.

 

[Homburg]

Perhaps it is because I am 50, and know women in my age group who are still sexually vibrant, physically beautiful, and confident in their sustained sensuality, that I perceive Page's bio this way. Looking at her as an actual human being, not a mythologized icon, I see a tragic figure.

I'm with you, sort of. Sure, it is possible to be as you describe there, but she is past that age by 30+ years. Moreover she drew a sharp line of demarcation between herself and her old life, and only recently (within the last ten years) came back into (weak) contact with it in a positive manner.

She is tragic personally, but, to be frank, Betty Page, as a person, is distinct from Bettie Page, as an icon. When you get down to it, a whole helluva lot of iconic figures are tragic, and that is part of what makes them iconic. Bruce Lee would still be in impressive shape I'm sure if he were alive, but he would not be the Bruce Lee of the 60's and 70's. James Dean might still be acting, but would not be the James Dean we all know. Same with Marilyn Monroe.

In this sense, Bettie produced an artificial demise by dropping off the scene. This locked her in a period of time from '50-'57, and preserved her icon/image at that point. I would bet that the first thing she did was to change her signature hair. Going into religious work would heighten that desire to leave that life, and that image behind. I agree that she is tragic, but so was Picasso, and it does not call his work into question. No, she was no Picasso, but one can be tragic and all too human while still being an icon.

 

[JMohegan]

I'm with you, sort of. Sure, it is possible to be as you describe there, but she is past that age by 30+ years. Moreover she drew a sharp line of demarcation between herself and her old life, and only recently (within the last ten years) came back into (weak) contact with it in a positive manner.

She is tragic personally, but, to be frank, Betty Page, as a person, is distinct from Bettie Page, as an icon. When you get down to it, a whole helluva lot of iconic figures are tragic, and that is part of what makes them iconic. Bruce Lee would still be in impressive shape I'm sure if he were alive, but he would not be the Bruce Lee of the 60's and 70's. James Dean might still be acting, but would not be the James Dean we all know. Same with Marilyn Monroe.

In this sense, Bettie produced an artificial demise by dropping off the scene. This locked her in a period of time from '50-'57, and preserved her icon/image at that point. I would bet that the first thing she did was to change her signature hair. Going into religious work would heighten that desire to leave that life, and that image behind. I agree that she is tragic, but so was Picasso, and it does not call his work into question. No, she was no Picasso, but one can be tragic and all too human while still being an icon.

It's not the contrast between her tragic life circumstances and icon status that I find ironic. It is the contrast between the perceived celebration of sexual freedom rendering Page an icon, and her post-pinup life as an evangelical recluse refusing to be photographed, that I find extremely ironic. Unabashed sensuality with a mid-30's expiration date just doesn't seem much like sexual liberation to me.

Bottom line - as you say, Page the person is distinct from Page the icon. For any iconic figure, that's clearly true.

 

[Homburg]

It's not the contrast between her tragic life circumstances and icon status that I find ironic. It is the contrast between the perceived celebration of sexual freedom rendering Page an icon, and her post-pinup life as an evangelical recluse refusing to be photographed, that I find extremely ironic. Unabashed sensuality with a mid-30's expiration date just doesn't seem much like sexual liberation to me.

Bottom line - as you say, Page the person is distinct from Page the icon. For any iconic figure, that's clearly true.

Well, there's two things going on here. The first supports the irony you're perceiving, and that is that she was not particularly sexually liberated even when she was shooting these pics. Sure, the sexual imagery and overtones were there, and it was sexual liberation vis a vis power and gender roles (she was a dominant person, and took charge of the large majority of shoots she was in), but she (according to interviews with her and other parties) was not having a whole lot of sex. Specifically, she mentions a couple of wealthy, powerful men that were chasing her, and she wanted to do with them because all they wanted was sex. So no real sexual liberation for her.

To be specific, for her, it was more about nudity, and the willingness to be seen as such. She considered it in good fun, not particularly pornish. There was a sort of naivete implied at least. She was pointedly interested in getting people to be less uptight about being naked, as has said as much in interviews.

The second thing though, is that the sexual liberation generally associated with her occurred *after* she stopped shooting. Her images helped usher in sexual freedom in many areas, empowered women to play with power roles, mainstreamed BDSM ever so slightly, etc. She was sex personified, and her pin-ups (in theory) had a positive impact on sexuality. She was not even aware of this until she was contacted by the man who became her agent in the latter part of her life (post hospitalisation IIRC).

So, no, no real sexual liberation for Betty Page (spelling it that way on purpose, as it is her birth name's spelling), but Bettie helped to spawn a couple of generations worth of folks who were less tight on sex and nudity.

 

[JMohegan]

The second thing though, is that the sexual liberation generally associated with her occurred *after* she stopped shooting. Her images helped usher in sexual freedom in many areas, empowered women to play with power roles, mainstreamed BDSM ever so slightly, etc. She was sex personified, and her pin-ups (in theory) had a positive impact on sexuality. She was not even aware of this until she was contacted by the man who became her agent in the latter part of her life (post hospitalisation IIRC).

So, no, no real sexual liberation for Betty Page (spelling it that way on purpose, as it is her birth name's spelling), but Bettie helped to spawn a couple of generations worth of folks who were less tight on sex and nudity.

Which generations? How old are those people, now? I'm not challenging you, Homburg, I'm just curious. When people credit her with loosening folks up, are they talking about my mother's generation (now 70+) or people who came of age during/after the revival of Page popularity (now <40)?

Born in '58, I had no awareness of Page until I was in my 30's, at which point I took note of her with an academic sort of "wow, did that really go on in the 50's?" point of view. The most popular pinup of my generation's adolescence was Farrah Fawcett. I'm sure somewhere in the 70's there were people seeking retro porn material, but I wasn't one of them and I didn't know anyone who did. All of this explains why I'm asking which generation people are talking about when they say Page loosened folks up.

As for sexual liberation and changing social mores, my guess is that no pinup, porn star, author, feminist, flower child, or even all of those taken together, can come close to the contributions made by people like Margaret Sanger, Estelle Griswold, and William Baird.

 

[Homburg]

Which generations? How old are those people, now? I'm not challenging you, Homburg, I'm just curious. When people credit her with loosening folks up, are they talking about my mother's generation (now 70+) or people who came of age during/after the revival of Page popularity (now <40)?

Born in '58, I had no awareness of Page until I was in my 30's, at which point I took note of her with an academic sort of "wow, did that really go on in the 50's?" point of view. The most popular pinup of my generation's adolescence was Farrah Fawcett. I'm sure somewhere in the 70's there were people seeking retro porn material, but I wasn't one of them and I didn't know anyone who did. All of this explains why I'm asking which generation people are talking about when they say Page loosened folks up.

I think the verbage used makes her influence sound more pervasive. She's not on the level of the worthies you noted, and I don't think anyone is claiming that. Basically, about every ten years or so she went through a resurgence in popularity, largely supported by mail order, underground mailing lists, swap meets, etc, and, later, email lists (such as the one maintained by the Bettie Scouts of America).

It was more liberation for fetishy types. I know my first real introduction to the imagery of fetishism was Bettie Page photos. Your reaction was similar to that had by many people, including those *in* the 50's, and got them to do more fetishy stuff (going from some personal accounts I've read on mailing lists, forwarded from Mistress Michelle's collection of OLD fetish magazines, etc).

I would not think that there is some sweeping, society-wide effect. More that she influenced kinksters and, probably more importantly, aspiring/latent/repressed kinksters for the past 50 years. It is arguable that her imagery was some of the most mainstream FemDom (when she played that role) imagery available at the time, or for years afterwards.

I'm not surprised that you'd not noticed her until your 30's. That would put the year in the late 80's or early 90's, which is around the time of her biggest resurgence in popularity. Your "formative" years were during the time period when she'd fallen off the face of the earth and her photos were still largely underground.

Still, it is fairly easy to find her influence in fashion, music, music videos, movies, and fetish imagery of course. To specifically answer your question, I would suggest that she influenced a certain slice of the populace from her heyday on, with breaks here and there when society forgot about her.

 

[JMohegan]

Thanks, Homburg. Interesting stuff.

 

[Homburg]

Quite welcome.

*tips the proverbial hat*