UN has run out of 'Gaza Food Aid'

[matriarch]

BBC

The UN has no more food to distribute in the Gaza Strip, the head of relief efforts in the area has warned.

John Ging said handouts for 750,000 Gazans would have to be suspended until Saturday at the earliest, and called Gaza's economic situation "a disaster".

Israel earlier denied entry to a convoy carrying humanitarian supplies.

It has prevented the transfer of all goods into Gaza for nearly a week, blaming continuing rocket attacks by Palestinian militants.

The United Nations Relief and Works Agency (Unrwa) distributes emergency aid to about half of Gaza's 1.5m population.

"We have run out [of food aid] this evening," said Mr Ging, Unrwa's senior official in Gaza.

"Unless the crossing points open... we won't be able to get that food into Gaza," he told Reuters news agency.

Access denied

Also on Thursday, Israel refused permission for a group of senior European diplomats to visit the coastal enclave.

Aid lorries leave the Kerem Shalom crossing after being denied entrance to the Gaza Strip by Israeli authorities, 13 November 2008

Gaza shut to fuel and journalists

It has also prevented journalists, including those from the BBC, from entering the territory.

Limited supplies of fuel were sent over on Tuesday after Gaza's only power plant ran out of diesel.

Militants say the mortar and rocket fire is their response to what they say is Israeli aggression against Gaza.

Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev insisted any improvement would be dependent on the Hamas movement which runs the Gaza Strip.

"There's been a combat situation and it's very difficult to have unhindered functioning of the border crossings in a situation where shooting is going on," he said.

On Wednesday, Israeli troops killed four Palestinian militants from the Hamas movement, which has controlled Gaza since it wrested power from the Fatah-dominated Palestinian Authority in June 2007.

Witnesses said fighting broke out on the Gaza border after Israeli armoured vehicles crossed into the territory near Khan Younis.

The army said its soldiers were trying to stop militants plant a bomb near the security fence surrounding the strip.

The Gaza power plant provides most of the electricity used in Gaza City; Israel supplies most of the rest of the territory's energy needs, but the system is liable to become overloaded and blackouts are common.

Israel occupied Gaza in 1967, but pulled military forces and Jewish settlers out in the summer of 2005.

Access to the territory, which is home to about 1.5m Palestinians, remains under the control of Israel's military, as does its airspace and territorial waters.

Egypt controls the southern entrance to Gaza at Rafah, and goes along with the policy of isolating the Hamas movement, which Israel and its allies brand a terrorist group.

The current round of clashes and rocket fire began on 5 November when Israeli troops entered Gaza to destroy what Israel said was a tunnel dug by militants to abduct its troops.

One militant died in the gunfight, and a subsequent Israeli air strike on Hamas positions in southern Gaza killed at least five fighters.

Hamas responded with a barrage of rockets fired into Israel. There has been intermittent rocket fire since, causing no Israeli casualties.

A truce between the two sides declared on 19 June had largely held. Both sides have accused the other of violating the truce, but maintain that they remain committed to it.

 

[rgraham666]

History doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme.

I can't help but look at the 'enclaves' the Israelis have created and think 'Warsaw'.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Of course you think Warsaw. You likely know more about Warsaw than Israel.

Do a little reading about Palestine, to get an idea of why Arabs live in places like Gaza, and who created the enclaves.

 

[freshface]

History doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme.

I can't help but look at the 'enclaves' the Israelis have created and think 'Warsaw'.

Well, except that the Israelis are not executing Gazans, forcing them to work as slave labor, or using the Gaza strip as a holding area for people bound for extermination camps.

The restrictions on the Gaza strip are based on rocket attacks from Gaza on Israeli towns. How do you think the US would respond if the Mexicans were taking pot shots at Corpus Christi, killing or wounding the odd American?

 

[rgraham666]

By starving the people that have nothing to do with it?

 

[R. Richard]

Why is it that the Israelis are able to grow food to feed their people and even to feed the Palestinians in Gaza, but the Palestinians aren't able to even grow enough food to feed themselves?

The Israelis had enclaves in Gaza that they were forced to abandon, because the cost of keeping the Palestinians from murdering the Gaza Israelis got too high. [At the same time, there are something like a million Palestinian Arabs living in Israel under the protection of Israeli law.] Why is it that the Palestinians don't use the food that the abandoned Israeli enclaves grew to feed themselves?

The Israelis earn their living. The Palestinians live on charity. To repay the charity, the Palestinians launch rockets against Israeli civilian targets.

Whoever is providing the charity is insane.

 

[freshface]

By starving the people that have nothing to do with it?

Well, that is one way to get their attention. Do you really expect them to blithely provide the Gaza strip with fuel, food, and electricity at the same time that they bury people killed by rockets from Gaza? How would you feel if your child was killed by a rocket manufactured with Israeli materials and energy and shot into Israel? If the people in Gaza want the restrictions removed, then the people in Gaza can stop the attacks across the border. They have a quasi-democracy there. They voted in Hamas and Hamas does nothing to stop the rocket attacks. They always have the option of voting in someone who will stop the attacks. Of course, the Gaza Strip also has a border with Egypt. Do you also condemn the Egyptians for keeping people confined to Gaza and blocking food deliveries?

 

[rgraham666]

Of course, the Gaza Strip also has a border with Egypt. Do you also condemn the Egyptians for keeping people confined to Gaza and blocking food deliveries?

As a matter of fact, I do.

As to the rest, Hamas, much as I detest them, were voted into office. That doesn't give them absolute power. They can't just say, "stop the rocket attacks," and they stop.

However most people, Palestinian and Israeli simply want the shooting to stop. Must all of them suffer because of a few fanatics?

 

[cloudy]

Well, that is one way to get their attention. Do you really expect them to blithely provide the Gaza strip with fuel, food, and electricity at the same time that they bury people killed by rockets from Gaza? How would you feel if your child was killed by a rocket manufactured with Israeli materials and energy and shot into Israel? If the people in Gaza want the restrictions removed, then the people in Gaza can stop the attacks across the border. They have a quasi-democracy there. They voted in Hamas and Hamas does nothing to stop the rocket attacks. They always have the option of voting in someone who will stop the attacks. Of course, the Gaza Strip also has a border with Egypt. Do you also condemn the Egyptians for keeping people confined to Gaza and blocking food deliveries?

Israel is far from blameless, you know.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

For those who dont know the history of the region. The UN partitioned Palestine in 1947 to make a place for Jews. One half became Israel, the other became Jordan.

But the Arabs got pissed off and attacked Israel in 1948. The Jews kicked their asses into next week and the Palestinian citizens of Israel moved to Jordan. Well, Jordan didnt want them...no one wants Palestinians (even Arab nations). So the Palestinians remained in Jordan and crabbed about Israel for years. Israel invited the Palestinians back as Israeli citizens, but the Palestinians refuse the offer. So Israel said FUCK THEM. They got Gaza because no one was willing to take them.

Gaza is on the coast, it borders Egypt, it isnt a prison they cant leave.

 

[freshface]

Israel is far from blameless, you know.

I never said Israel was blameless. But they exist, they are a country. The Palestinians can't expect them to just passively march into the sea. When you're surrounded by enemies who refuse to recognize your right to exist, you do what you must to survive. The Israelis have taken steps several different times in their history to try for peace with the neighbors. It's never worked out well for them.

 

[cloudy]

I never said Israel was blameless. But they exist, they are a country. The Palestinians can't expect them to just passively march into the sea. When you're surrounded by enemies who refuse to recognize your right to exist, you do what you must to survive. The Israelis have taken steps several different times in their history to try for peace with the neighbors. It's never worked out well for them.

I've got no wish to argue over it, but Israel has certainly been just as over-agressive as Palestine.

On a side note, it's not Israel's fault, really, but how the hell did the world expect Palestine to react? I mean, c'mon....to have land that had been in families for centuries jerked out from under them to draw out a make-believe country?

I'd be pissed, too. I sympathize, been there, done that, etc.

 

[matriarch]

I never said Israel was blameless. But they exist, they are a country. The Palestinians can't expect them to just passively march into the sea. When you're surrounded by enemies who refuse to recognize your right to exist, you do what you must to survive. The Israelis have taken steps several different times in their history to try for peace with the neighbors. It's never worked out well for them.

Israel exists on the back of the theft of lands belonging to Palestinians, family homes, businesses, farms, belonging to families who had lived and worked there for generations. It was probably the most shameful act in Britain's recent history that we instigated and colluded in the act that stole one country and handed it over to another.

I have been to Israel, spent time with Palestinians, who calmly told us about their homes that had been taken away from them, with no recompense.

As a race who are very familiar with the despair of displacement, I would expect them to be sympathetic to those people caught in the middle of this shameful war rather than maintain the disgrace of starving out people who have nothing.

 

[freshface]

I've got no wish to argue over it, but Israel has certainly been just as over-agressive as Palestine.

On a side note, it's not Israel's fault, really, but how the hell did the world expect Palestine to react? I mean, c'mon....to have land that had been in families for centuries jerked out from under them to draw out a make-believe country?

I'd be pissed, too. I sympathize, been there, done that, etc.

I really don't want to argue over it either.

But about your side note. Borders in the Middle East were pretty fluid things before World War I. The British and French drew the borders pretty much where they chose when they dismantled the Ottoman empire, so by your definition, lots of countries in the Middle East would be make believe. Talk to the Kurds about that one. The Jews immigrating into Palestine spent the 1920s and 1930s buying land from wealthy, absentee, Arab landowners. Usually the land for sale was considered worthless because it was swampy or arid. The partition in 1947 roughly made the Jewish owned land into Israel and the Arab owned land into Palestine. The Palestinians left at the urgings of the neighbors so that they wouldn't be in the way of the six invading Arab armies. Those Arabs that remained in Israel became Israeli citizens. I can't say that they have full rights of citizenship, but they weren't forced off of their ancestral lands either. And, of course, we mustn't forget hundreds of thousands of Jews in other countries that were expelled when Israel became a country. It's easy to forget them because Israel quietly absorbed them. It's hard to forget the Palestinians because it suited the neighbors to keep them in refugee camps. Their misery became political capital. No one in the conflict is perfect, but the Israelis have never once had the destruction of the Palestinians as a stated goal.

 

[cloudy]

but they weren't forced off of their ancestral lands either.

This is where you're wrong. They were indeed forced off. See Mat's post.

 

[sr71plt]

Why is it that the Israelis are able to grow food to feed their people and even to feed the Palestinians in Gaza, but the Palestinians aren't able to even grow enough food to feed themselves?

Because the Palestinians have been forced off of all of the productive land.

Was this a trick question?

Have you been to Israel? I've worked there.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

CLOUDY

The Jews had to go somewhere after the war. And its not like the UN gave them Manhattan; Palestine is their ancestral home.

 

[sr71plt]

CLOUDY

The Jews had to go somewhere after the war. And its not like the UN gave them Manhattan; Palestine is their ancestral home.

Twas the ancestral home for the Palestinians too (who even stayed during the period the Hebrews were carted off to Babylon).

I would have offered the Jews Bavaria--and maybe northern Italy. (But they probably still would have boarded the Exodus and gone where they preferred.)

And you mean they no longer have Manhattan?

 

[R. Richard]

Because the Palestinians have been forced off of all of the productive land.

Was this a trick question?

Have you been to Israel? I've worked there.

If you have been to Israel, you have then seen the Palestinian olive orchards that were a big part of the Palestinian economy. What happened to the Palestinian olive orchards? Were they on non-productive land? Were they used as firing positions by Palestinians, under Arafat, to attack Israelis?

 

[R. Richard]

Israel exists on the back of the theft of lands belonging to Palestinians, family homes, businesses, farms, belonging to families who had lived and worked there for generations. It was probably the most shameful act in Britain's recent history that we instigated and colluded in the act that stole one country and handed it over to another.

I have been to Israel, spent time with Palestinians, who calmly told us about their homes that had been taken away from them, with no recompense.

As a race who are very familiar with the despair of displacement, I would expect them to be sympathetic to those people caught in the middle of this shameful war rather than maintain the disgrace of starving out people who have nothing.

As a matter of historical fact, very few Palestinians were forced off their lands. Most of the Palestinians who left, left because they were assured that they would get their lands back and more, once the Arab armys expelled the Jews. The Palestinains who remained still own their lands, unless they sold them. There are something like a million Palestinian Arabs who still live in Israel, with the rights of Israeli citizens. The Palestinians who left were herded into refugee camps by their Arab neighbors and not allowed to work for a living, nor to have any of the rights of the citizens of the lands where the refugee camps are located.

Starving out people? May I remind you that Gaza has a border with Egypt, a Muslim nation. Why not send in food via Egypt? Or is it only the people whom Hamas has vowed to destroy [in their own charter] who are supposed to help the Gazans?

 

[sr71plt]

If you have been to Israel, you have then seen the Palestinian olive orchards that were a big part of the Palestinian economy. What happened to the Palestinian olive orchards? Were they on non-productive land? Were they used as firing positions by Palestinians, under Arafat, to attack Israelis?

It's true that the Palestinians have been the main farmers of the land (which zings straight to any implication that they aren't eating because they are too lazy to work). The productive part of Israel is the central-coastal strip running from Haifa to the Gaza Strip. The olive orchards you mention are mainly inland from there running from Nazareth down to Nablus. During the period I was TDYing into Israel, the Palestinians were being forced out of these areas. At first they let back in as day workers (since they were the ones providing most of the direct labor) but now that's not even happening.

The Gaza Strip is fertile land--there just have been too many Palestinians forced into that area to support them all. Meanwhile, Israel exports citrus to Europe (and maybe to your grocery store as well).

 

[sr71plt]

As a matter of historical fact, very few Palestinians were forced off their lands. Most of the Palestinians who left, left because they were assured that they would get their lands back and more, once the Arab armys expelled the Jews. The Palestinains who remained still own their lands, unless they sold them. There are something like a million Palestinian Arabs who still live in Israel, with the rights of Israeli citizens. The Palestinians who left were herded into refugee camps by their Arab neighbors and not allowed to work for a living, nor to have any of the rights of the citizens of the lands where the refugee camps are located.

Starving out people? May I remind you that Gaza has a border with Egypt, a Muslim nation. Why not send in food via Egypt? Or is it only the people whom Hamas has vowed to destroy [in their own charter] who are supposed to help the Gazans?

Wow, that's certainly a rewrite of history.

 

[R. Richard]

Wow, that's certainly a rewrite of history.

Please cite specific errors that you think I have made, with references. [Note: The Palestinians don't believe that there were ever jewish temples in Jerusalem. Don't bother citing Palestinian sources.]

Originally Posted by R. Richard
As a matter of historical fact, very few Palestinians were forced off their lands. Most of the Palestinians who left, left because they were assured that they would get their lands back and more, once the Arab armys expelled the Jews. The Palestinains who remained still own their lands, unless they sold them. There are something like a million Palestinian Arabs who still live in Israel, with the rights of Israeli citizens. The Palestinians who left were herded into refugee camps by their Arab neighbors and not allowed to work for a living, nor to have any of the rights of the citizens of the lands where the refugee camps are located.

Starving out people? May I remind you that Gaza has a border with Egypt, a Muslim nation. Why not send in food via Egypt? Or is it only the people whom Hamas has vowed to destroy [in their own charter] who are supposed to help the Gazans?

 

[R. Richard]

The Gaza Strip is fertile land--there just have been too many Palestinians forced into that area to support them all. Meanwhile, Israel exports citrus to Europe (and maybe to your grocery store as well).

Please, who forced the Palestinians into Gaza and how? TIA.

 

[sr71plt]

Please cite specific errors that you think I have made, with references. [Note: The Palestinians don't believe that there were ever jewish temples in Jerusalem. Don't bother citing Palestinian sources.]

Originally Posted by R. Richard
As a matter of historical fact, very few Palestinians were forced off their lands. Most of the Palestinians who left, left because they were assured that they would get their lands back and more, once the Arab armys expelled the Jews. The Palestinains who remained still own their lands, unless they sold them. There are something like a million Palestinian Arabs who still live in Israel, with the rights of Israeli citizens. The Palestinians who left were herded into refugee camps by their Arab neighbors and not allowed to work for a living, nor to have any of the rights of the citizens of the lands where the refugee camps are located.

Starving out people? May I remind you that Gaza has a border with Egypt, a Muslim nation. Why not send in food via Egypt? Or is it only the people whom Hamas has vowed to destroy [in their own charter] who are supposed to help the Gazans?

Naw, I'll let you think of doing your own research (do you research your books like this?). You're pretty harmless to anything meaningful on this topic.

P.S. No the surrounding Arab states haven't been very nice to the Palestinians. What does that have to do with the Palestinian-Israeli relationship--other than bolstering the thumb pressure applied by the Israelis?