Thoughts on Points of View

[ericahope]

I wrote my first story. The first chapter can be found here:

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=388808

One of the criticisms I've received from multiple people is that I've incorporated too many points of view. I, the author, can see into any of my characters' heads and know what they are thinking, and I switch between them frequently. People think it's confusing. I can understand the criticism and I want to look for other ways of presenting the story without doing that.

I've thought of three options and I want to get other writers' and readers' opinions.

1) I can remain a third person writer and not look into the thoughts of any of my characters and let their actions do the talking.

2) I can become a first person writer and insert myself into the story, seeing only into the my own head and knowing only my own thoughts. What I can actually see with my own character's eyes is all that is recorded in the story.

3) I can become a first person writer and insert myself into the story, seeing only into the my own head and knowing only my own thoughts. However, events taking place can be related to the reader even if my character is not there to witness it. I got this idea from reading a Nobel prize winning novel in which the author is an actual character in the book (a very minor character) but tells the story of events even though his character was not there to see them.

You don't need to read my story to give your thoughts to this, but is there a particular perspective you like or dislike or that is harder to pull off well than others? Is Option 3 a legitimate literary tool or is generally frowned upon? If it's frowned upon, was the Nobel prize winning author just popular enough or a good enough writer he could get away with it?

Erica

 

[CWatson]

Well, first off: there's absolutely nothing wrong with switching between viewpoints while you write. Normally, you're supposed to use a section break to indicate a switch (you know, the centered asterisks), but if you're careful you can achieve it without breaking the narrative; I did it in the last two chapters of my most recent story, and, actually, received no comments on it whatsoever. (Either I did it so badly that nobody noticed, or I did it so well that nobody noticed. My bet's on the former. ) Your problem lies in the execution: the switches in your story are a little... graceless. I'm not sure how else to explain it.

Right now, you're treating the PoV switch like a new camera angle in a movie; I can tell that you're a very visual writer. Unfortunately, this isn't a movie; merely depicting the character isn't enough. Instead, you also have to get inside their heads. When you switch, you have to start relating information only that character would know or could experience--"confidential information", if you will. For instance, if you've got Brian & Cathy doing it, you can show you've gotten to Brian's PoV by describing what it feels like from his end--something Cathy might know second-hand because Brian has described it to her, but wouldn't be able to actually experience.

Now, you do this; absolutely, you do this. Your problem lies in that you don't do it first. Like I said, you set up your shots visually, establishing your subject matter before delving into their heads; instead of giving "confidential information" right off the bat, you start with narration about the character. That's actually the wrong way to do it. If you want to get us into another character's head, then get us into that character's head, darn it. Don't just describe that she's in the bathroom toweling herself off; tell us how the folds of soft terrycloth caress her skin, how anticipation is making her burn, how excited (but simultaneously nervous) she is at the prospect of finally entertaining intercourse again. Don't just tell us what she's doing: tell us what she feels.

Also, you might want to think about switching a little less frequently. Three times in the first five paragraphs alone is a little much. And then Marci comes in! As a rule, if you switch to a character who wasn't present in the previous scene, you should use a section break (the centered asterisks) to indicate that, well, you're breaking. (Then, when the sex starts, you start switching within paragraphs. Ironically, I think this is less troubling than the other stuff: you've established that you'll be switching often, so the reader is more inclined to buy it. But under other circumstances it might be something to fix.)

Finally, let me close by saying that this whole PoV-switching thing is very advanced theory; only a skilled and experienced writer can pull off. I've seen a lot of disastrous attempts. This isn't one of them. You pulled it off. And that's a mark of your skill and talent. Don't be disappointed that it didn't work: be pleased it did.

You're a good writer. Keep writing.

 

[sr71plt]

I think CWatson has it right. Viewpoints can switch when they are finely crafted. If it's jarring for the reader (and not jarring in an "on purpose" way to serve the story), it hasn't been finely crafted. There needs to be a preconstructed point to doing it, though (and a sensible retreat strategy) and it needs to fit the mood of the story. If it's done willynilly, it will come off as disconcerting and bad writing. The prizes in writing go to those who do something new and different and well--and get away with it.

 

[fieryjen]

I'm in agreement with the two above, and I don't have much to add except for a personal observation.

I generally only switch viewpoints between scenes. It can be done in within the context of a single scene without being jarring to the reader, but it's quite tricky to pull off, and I don't like to write that way anyway, so I don't even try. It is acceptable to start each new scene from a different point of view, however, if you stick with it. But if your stories consist of a lot of long sex scenes, that's probably not as helpful.

 

[sr71plt]

Same thing for tense, by the way.

 

[JackLuis]

I think you switched viewpoints fairly well. Surprised Brian was so quick to cum, almost like real life, He He.

Not sure of the -***- idea on the VP switching. The way you did it was better IMHO.
I had a hard time keeping the names/characters in line, but that is always a problem with more than 3 characters.

In the final analysis, It got me hard!

 

[ericahope]

Well, first off: there's absolutely nothing wrong with switching between viewpoints while you write...

Thank you so much for your thoughtful critique. It was extremely helpful! I'll have to try getting into their heads first thing when I change views and see if that helps at all. You've given me encouragement that I can actually fix the problems and all is not lost.

I did try to separate view points/scene changes/location changes with an extra space between paragraphs but those were eliminated by the Lit editors. I'll try the asterisks next time.

Again, thank you!

Erica

 

[ericahope]

I think you switched viewpoints fairly well. Surprised Brian was so quick to cum, almost like real life, He He.

Not sure of the -***- idea on the VP switching. The way you did it was better IMHO.
I had a hard time keeping the names/characters in line, but that is always a problem with more than 3 characters.

In the final analysis, It got me hard!

I try to make it like real life as much as possible (without being completely boring!). I'm glad the story accomplished its goal

 

[ericahope]

I think CWatson has it right. Viewpoints can switch when they are finely crafted. If it's jarring for the reader (and not jarring in an "on purpose" way to serve the story), it hasn't been finely crafted. There needs to be a preconstructed point to doing it, though (and a sensible retreat strategy) and it needs to fit the mood of the story. If it's done willynilly, it will come off as disconcerting and bad writing. The prizes in writing go to those who do something new and different and well--and get away with it.

Thank you for your critique. This is helpful!

Erica

 

[AchtungNight]

What I recommend is being consistent and clear. Limit yourself to one or two characters at a time. If you're getting into an intense orgy scene with a lot of stuff going on, you can swap viewpoints frequently but always make the switch come across strong to the reader. "Cat thought..." "Shelly did this..." "Heather considered that..." Etc. For some stories you may find it more effective to keep to just one viewpoint. I did that quite often in my early erotica days.

 

[JoshuaGlynn]

Hey great story. CWatson gave some great pointers. I love shifting viewpoints myself, in fact I use it in most of my stories too. I use a line to break the view points, with the name of the new viewpoint character, to ease reader confusion.


_______________________

John


Kinda like that.

Josh

 

[emap]

What they said with an addendum. Don't put to much stock in what people say about your choice of viewpoint. When I first started writing I got a few comments that I should write it this way instead of the way I did. I didn't listen to those, the way a person thinks a story should be written is their own personal view, not everyone follows it.

That said, you should pay attention to what your writing and keep in mind changing viewpoints rather demands that you denote the changes either before it happens as has been said, or almost immediately upon reading the new viewpoint.

Though really the most important thing is to keep writing the way you want to. However that happens to be. It is Ok to change viewpoints between stories, like one is written in first person, another is third person omniscient, and a third is written in third person limited. The way you write a story means little, the success of a story lies not in how you write it, but your own wishes on how it should sound and move.

I don't remember who said it, but it's a rather apt thing to say about now. Write not for others, but instead for yourself. You can't please everyone all the time, trying will only ruin your enjoyment. I hope I said it right, and I think I quoted two different people.

 

[halj]

Personally, I will usually couple a point-of-view shift with some physical action to allow the reader to anticipate the change. The POV character leaving the room, closing the door behind them, or something similar if the change does not justify a scene break (the * * *). Continually head-hopping is confusing for the reader.

In the story, the very first POV change had me puzzling. At the beginning, Brian was thinking about Cathy being in the bathroom, then we had a flashback from Brian's POV as he was discussing his relationship to Roger and Wendy, then we ended up in the bathroom with Cathy. As I initially read it, I missed the point of view shift until the third sentence where it was revealed that Cathy was looking at herself in the mirror. Up until this point, the POV is indeterminate. The first two sentences, "In the bathroom..." and "She stood nude..." could have still been from Brian's point of view.

I'm not trying to be overly critical, but POV can be a minefield for the author since they have such an intimate relationship with the characters and the story. The author would never share in my confusion- carefully choosing the POV in order to progress the story. The pace here is good and the POV shift is necessary in order to introduce the other character, but some additional effort is required to resolve the ambiguity.

 

[ericahope]

I don't remember who said it, but it's a rather apt thing to say about now. Write not for others, but instead for yourself. You can't please everyone all the time, trying will only ruin your enjoyment. I hope I said it right, and I think I quoted two different people.

Thank you so much for your thoughtful response!

 

[ericahope]

In the story, the very first POV change had me puzzling. At the beginning, Brian was thinking about Cathy being in the bathroom, then we had a flashback from Brian's POV as he was discussing his relationship to Roger and Wendy, then we ended up in the bathroom with Cathy. As I initially read it, I missed the point of view shift until the third sentence where it was revealed that Cathy was looking at herself in the mirror. Up until this point, the POV is indeterminate. The first two sentences, "In the bathroom..." and "She stood nude..." could have still been from Brian's point of view.
.

Thank you...this is good to know and I'll try to improve on it in future tries!