What is your definition of Honor...

[SubKekiLee]

Hey! I belong to another forum and this was presented by a highly respected master on that forum and I thought this might give some people food for thought... I would like to see your thoughts on this as well..



>
>
>
> www.BrotherhoodOfTheCircle.com
> www.ZanthiaHouse.com was originally posted by Master Jaye

What is honor?
> Is it only a word used in support of a talking point or current
position? Is honor a concept that under scrutiny is actually devoid
of any real substance? When employed in conversation, is the use of
the word honor intended to provide context for something real, which
is actually present?
>
> The last five years has seen my faith in the "honor" of men I
had once perceived as so, called into question on more than one
occasion. Upon close examination of my resulting disillusionment, I
am conflicted to judge whether or not the culprit is the actions of
men or if indeed my definition of the term is at fault.
>
> As this forum's mission is to help weed out the nonsense and get
down to the substance of an issue, I have come seeking your answers
to a series of questions devised to help me examine my concept of
honor. The fondest wish of course is to engage the participation of
every voice, though I realize that only a few in our world harbor
any responsibility to assist others.

1) A well man calls into work to say that he is ill and because of
that illness, will not report for duty today. Do you consider this
a dishonorable act, or is it simply an innocent and acceptable ploy
to get time off work?

2) You meet an attractive classy woman at the lunch counter, in
whom you sense a little sadness (or perhaps defiance). She wants to
meet a man who is really honest with her. After a bit more
conversation she's convinced that you are that man. She wants to
give you her everything starting right now. Do you return to her
hotel room and bed her on the spot? Do you wait until later to
inform her of your lifestyle preference or tell her of the one or
two women with whom you are currently involved, before proceeding?
Do all of these actions fall within the acceptable column, in your
definition of honorable action?

3) Your brother (or sister) asks your help digging a critical
ditch. You agree that the ditch is important and that you will help
dig. It starts to rain on dig day; the soil gets slimy and sticky.
The task gets harder as the water turns the soil into mud. Do you
feel that the job has become more difficult than you thought it
would be and abandon him/her to complete the task alone? Of course,
no one could blame you for abandoning such a difficult task. Does
your definition of honor, allow you wiggle room under such
circumstances?

4) It is a real pain to write your campaign letter, but you
discover an obscure letter penned by some guy a long time ago. It
sounds good and fits your thoughts exactly. So you copy the letter,
changing a couple of words along the way and then sign your name to
it as your own. Does your definition of honor tell you that this
behavior is okay?

5) As an honorable man: are there circumstances under which it is
acceptable to go back on your word, lie, cheat or deceive others,
misrepresent yourself and your true intentions in order to achieve a
personal objective?

 

[intothewoods]

I started to answer these but they were really obvious.

I just wanted to say that I don't think a woman who decides that a man she met at a lunch counter is the be all end all is making good choices. For those who do the casual sex thing, it's ethical and in your best interest to be upfront about the casual nature of the encounter from the beginning.

Also, I have in the past called in sick for a mental health day. Not like, I just need to chill, but my anxiety levels were out of control. I don't feel any ethical qualms about that. To me, I wasn't well, and I needed a day to get better. I just don't feel like revealing my mental health status to my boss. And frankly, I don't think he wants to know. I have a cold, or whatever, is just fine with him.

 

[Netzach]

I started to answer these but they were really obvious.

I just wanted to say that I don't think a woman who decides that a man she met at a lunch counter is the be all end all is making good choices. For those who do the casual sex thing, it's ethical and in your best interest to be upfront about the casual nature of the encounter from the beginning.

Also, I have in the past called in sick for a mental health day. Not like, I just need to chill, but my anxiety levels were out of control. I don't feel any ethical qualms about that. To me, I wasn't well, and I needed a day to get better. I just don't feel like revealing my mental health status to my boss. And frankly, I don't think he wants to know. I have a cold, or whatever, is just fine with him.

Most things are contextual. If he's working a job that is abusive in its schedule and demands and his absence doesn't hurt his co-workers significantly, I'd say NOT ever taking a "mental health day" makes him a patsy and easily led, not honorable.

Similarly, with the ditch digging. If you're still out there in the rain while your family has retired for hot toddies and called it off, that makes you kind of a schmuck.

But I'm not exactly the most civic minded of people to ask, I guess.

Rising to the occasion and getting the most gold stars on your martyr chart are not the same thing.

And I definitely don't think people who have meaningless sex are worse people than people who don't. Nine times in ten those who "don't" DO - more than I ever have.

That's some pretty hard cold old school heteronormative kool-aid I consistently refuse.

To me, the guy who leans across the counter and says "I'm a cad, I'm leaving town tomorrow, and it's not serious, wanna fuck?" is worth ten guys who think that by not fucking the vulnerable and lost little thing they're some kind of saint.

 

[bridgeburner]

1. Perfectly acceptable to call in "sick" when you need a day off provided you have the sick time and you're not leaving your company or co-workers in the lurch. At every job I've ever held that was upright enough to HAVE sick time, we called them "personal days" for the exact reason that it was acknowledged by the company that sometimes you have business or personal matters to attend to and the company does not own you like a slave.

2. I do not fuck the sort of folks who immediately want to start picking china patterns within minutes - hours - days or even weeks of meeting me.

3. Nobody in my family is stupid enough to try and keep digging a ditch that is collapsing in the rain. Now, if it's my brother and we're burying a body, then I'm in until the stiff is stuffed, but that's not likely to happen.

4. Plagarism is for small minds. I would no more plagarize than I would smear myself in feces and walk down Main Street at high noon.

5. I would say that there are circumstances where an honorable person could engage in any of those activities with the possible exception of cheating -- I say possible mainly because my personal definition of the word excludes it, but my definition is likely different than others'. Looking at the entire list there are only two actual infractions: lying and cheating. Misrepresentation and deceit are simply other words for lying. If a gunman breaks into your home and says "Are you alone?" and you lie and say "Yes," rather than telling him about your two children asleep in their bedroom I don't think you've been dishonorable. If you wear a wedding band in your single state to discourage strangers from hitting on you, that's deceptive, but not dishonorable.

Honor implies an obligation to do the right thing. Duty. Do you have a duty or an obligation to tell the truth ALL the time? No. You have a duty and an obligation to be as decent a human being as you can be. Sometimes that invovles being less than fully honest and occasionally outright lying.

 

[bridgeburner]

To me, the guy who leans across the counter and says "I'm a cad, I'm leaving town tomorrow, and it's not serious, wanna fuck?" is worth ten guys who think that by not fucking the vulnerable and lost little thing they're some kind of saint.

The cad is definitely getting in my pants. The "saint" is more likely one of those guys who's going to passive-aggressively hit on me every time I see him by complaining about how he's just "too nice" for women and what's wrong with all of us bitches that we don't value him.

Being a nicer sort of person myself I don't tell him that it's because he's an unattractive whiner with a fem-grudge.