Dubious voting procedure: it's not just Florida anymore

[shereads]

I voted today. My first use of Georgia's version of the paperless e-voting machines that functioned so dubiously in Florida in '04.

This version, unlike that one, requires a coded card to activate. Like an automatic banking machine, it spits out the card at the end of the procedure. Unlike an atm, it doesn't provide a paper confirmation. (Would that be difficult, for some reason that doesn't apply to the banking industry?)

As I was leaving, the gentleman leaving the machine next to mine told one of the poll workers that there was a problem:

-- the voting machine had shown the "Your Ballot Has Been Cast" screen and returned his activation card before he finished voting.

The woman looked flustered. "Well you must have pushed a wrong button or something," she said.

"I didn't get to vote. I want to do it over."

"You can't. Once you've used a card, you can't vote again."

"I don't want to vote again. I want to vote."

"There's nothing I can do."

She did warn another voter not to use that machine.

Honestly, people. How hard can this be?

 

[fieryjen]

Oh Jesus Fucking Christ. I didn't believe it could get more pathetic than Florida, but I was obviously very much wrong.

 

[DesertPirate]

As a computer geek, I don't trust those things at all!
They are way to easy to crack.
I would prefer a paper ballot.

 

[sr71plt]

Probably pretty widespread--including among those instituting paper trace machines. We switched to those in my county this year and the training on them for election officials was so abysmal (those demonstrating the machine having little idea what they were doing) that I resigned my election official position short of November's election. I'll sleep in now and do no more than go to the poll to cast my own vote.

 

[shereads]

Oh Jesus Fucking Christ. I didn't believe it could get more pathetic than Florida, but I was obviously very much wrong.

It's not more pathetic. Just equally pathetic.

DP and other tech geeks:

Why can't we have both? The quickness of e-voting, but with a printed paper receipt as backup, just like when you make a deposit at an ATM? If the receipt was blank, this gentleman who had the problem today would have had proof that he was owed a do-ever. Otherwise, the receipt would get dropped into a ballot box for use in case of a recount.

Shouldn't the ink cartridge industry be lobbying for paper receipts?

 

[TE999]

Avoid the entire miserable exercise by voting absentee.

We use touchscreen machines in our county and no problems so far. A person knowledgeable about the machines from the Supervisor of Elections office is stationed at each polling place in case of difficulties.

 

[Weird Harold]

I voted today. My first use of Georgia's version of the paperless e-voting machines that functioned so dubiously in Florida in '04.

This version, unlike that one, requires a coded card to activate. Like an automatic banking machine, it spits out the card at the end of the procedure. Unlike an atm, it doesn't provide a paper confirmation. (Would that be difficult, for some reason that doesn't apply to the banking industry?)

No it's not all that difficult technically: Nevada uses similar machines that take an activation card (that programs the machine withthe proper ballot so early voting can handle multiple priecints with a minimum number of machines. The card itself records a backup of the ballot IIRC the explanation when Nevada first bought them.

The Machines we use have a small printer attached to the side that prints each page of the ballot and requires the voter to verify each page before they're even shown the "cast ballot" button. there is a redo button for cases where the printed votes don't match the voter's intent.

The printed backup stays with the machine for manual recount purposes. It just gets rolled onto the takeup roll and out of sight after you press the last verification button and the cast vote button.

The whole problem with printed verification/backup is that the printers are the most fragile part of the machine -- having 90% of the moving parts -- and it requires the ink and paper to be monitored so they don't run out during a voting session.

That takes more money for more people, more training, more maintenance, for machines that cost more to begin with. Nevada is willing to pay the extra cost, Georgia and Florida aren't.

In the twelve years Clark County has been using the current system (with some hardware upgrades) I don't know of a single race that ever fell back on the hard-copies for a recount or verification. There have been one or two that fell back on the electronic record stored in the activation cards for a recount, but not one instance of needing the verification tape other than soothing voter concerns.

 

[shereads]

Avoid the entire miserable exercise by voting absentee.

We use touchscreen machines in our county and no problems so far. A person knowledgeable about the machines from the Supervisor of Elections office is stationed at each polling place in case of difficulties.

And if one of these difficulties arises with no way for the pollworker to know whether the machine has registered a vote, what can they do? They can't allow the voter a do-over without the risk that he or she will be voting twice.

 

[Weird Harold]

And if one of these difficulties arises with no way for the pollworker to know whether the machine has registered a vote, what can they do? They can't allow the voter a do-over without the risk that he or she will be voting twice.

Sure they can. The cards can be programmed for a provisional ballot as well as a precinct specific ballot.

 

[matriarch]

I voted today. My first use of Georgia's version of the paperless e-voting machines that functioned so dubiously in Florida in '04.

This version, unlike that one, requires a coded card to activate. Like an automatic banking machine, it spits out the card at the end of the procedure. Unlike an atm, it doesn't provide a paper confirmation. (Would that be difficult, for some reason that doesn't apply to the banking industry?)

As I was leaving, the gentleman leaving the machine next to mine told one of the poll workers that there was a problem:

-- the voting machine had shown the "Your Ballot Has Been Cast" screen and returned his activation card before he finished voting.

The woman looked flustered. "Well you must have pushed a wrong button or something," she said.

"I didn't get to vote. I want to do it over."

"You can't. Once you've used a card, you can't vote again."

"I don't want to vote again. I want to vote."

"There's nothing I can do."

She did warn another voter not to use that machine.

Honestly, people. How hard can this be?

If I don't get a piece of paper with candidates names on, and a pencil on a piece of string to mark my cross, then it ain't voting!!

 

[starrkers]

If I don't get a piece of paper with candidates names on, and a pencil on a piece of string to mark my cross, then it ain't voting!!

And a little cardboard booth to stand in while using the above.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

I am SOOOO glad I cast an early ballot.

 

[DesertPirate]

It's not more pathetic. Just equally pathetic.

DP and other tech geeks:

Why can't we have both? The quickness of e-voting, but with a printed paper receipt as backup, just like when you make a deposit at an ATM? If the receipt was blank, this gentleman who had the problem today would have had proof that he was owed a do-ever. Otherwise, the receipt would get dropped into a ballot box for use in case of a recount.

Shouldn't the ink cartridge industry be lobbying for paper receipts?

Ink runs if it gets wet, has to be a laser.
I could write a program to record one thing and print another.
If it involves computer programming it CAN be corrupted.

 

[Saucy_Sage]

Dubious. Dubya's.

Coincidence? I think not.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/102108/met_346558173.shtml

THE MORE THINGS CHANGE, THE MORE THEY REMAIN THE SAME.

 

[Belegon]

As a computer geek, I don't trust those things at all!
They are way to easy to crack.
I would prefer a paper ballot.

On THIS political subject you and I are in complete agreement!

Yeah, it's a little more difficult. But it can be audited.

 

[Weird Harold]

And a little cardboard booth to stand in while using the above.

And pictures of the candidates next to the little boxes so you don't have to read the loca language to vote.

 

[sr71plt]

Yeah, it's a little more difficult. But it can be audited.

But, as we saw in Florida, it can only be audited with a great deal of difficulty and subjectivity. (And it's just as easy to lose a sack of ballots--which has also happened in Florida--as it is to have a glitch in your computer).

I understand the paper trail concept, but it was oh so nice as an election official to use fully automated voting machines. No recounts at all. I wouldn't have wanted to be in the place of those having to do a manual recount in Florida at all. It was bad enough to have to endure a 16-hour day of just the regular voter problems.

 

[rgraham666]

It's not the vote that counts but who counts the votes. - Josef Stalin.

Funny, isn't it? How the defenders of freedom are taking lessons from one of its great enemies.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Florida changed the law here. No recounts.

 

[fieryjen]

If I don't get a piece of paper with candidates names on, and a pencil on a piece of string to mark my cross, then it ain't voting!!

And a little cardboard booth to stand in while using the above.

Yes. I remember fondly going with my parents and being allowed in the little cardboard thing with them and painting an X in whichever circle they pointed to.

 

[oggbashan]

Yes. I remember fondly going with my parents and being allowed in the little cardboard thing with them and painting an X in whichever circle they pointed to.

I voted a couple of weeks ago in a local council bye-election.

We had plywood booths, paper ballots, and the pencil attached to by a string to a booth support.

The count was done manually in front of the candidates (and anyone else who wanted to go) and was marked by a vocal demonstration at the number of votes cast for the British National Party candidate (who came 5th).

Unfortunately our absentee voting system is still wide open to abuse and the government won't do anything about the flaws.

Og

 

[fieryjen]

I voted a couple of weeks ago in a local council bye-election.

We had plywood booths, paper ballots, and the pencil attached to by a string to a booth support.

The count was done manually in front of the candidates (and anyone else who wanted to go) and was marked by a vocal demonstration at the number of votes cast for the British National Party candidate (who came 5th).

Unfortunately our absentee voting system is still wide open to abuse and the government won't do anything about the flaws.

Og

Like what sort of abuse?

I've never handled absentee votes, but I've volunteered to count regular votes, so I know how that goes down (at least in the county where I went to school). It was a lot of fun, actually. I'd do it again. I would not volunteer to handle some stupid machine that I'm not properly trained to handle and that I couldn't fix, however.

 

[impressive]

*sigh*

WINFIELD, W.Va. - Two more Putnam County voters - Martha Louise Harrington and Michael K. Koon - have come forward about problems they experienced on early-voting electronic machines at the Winfield courthouse.

Last week, other early voters in Jackson and Putnam counties said touch-screen voting machines changed their votes after they tried to punch them in.

http://wvgazette.com/News/200810200711

Harrington, a retired home health worker who lives in Hurricane, said, "I was very cautious to put my fingernail in the middle of the square. I hit it in the square to vote for Obama. Immediately, it went to McCain.

 

[Liar]

Yep...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/18/1070/1027/236/634390