Any Chemists out there?

[SeaCat]

Here in the United States you used to be able to easily buy Pseudofedrine Sulfate, which is a Anti-Hystimine.

For me, when my Sinuses lock up tight the only thing that works well is Claritin-D which is Psuedopfedrine Sulfate and Loratidine.

Then the war on Illegal Drugs struck. It seems that part of Pseudophedrine Sulfate can be used to make Crystal Meth. (I believe that part is Ephedrine but I'm not sure.) People were in some places stealing the Pseudophed to make their drugs. Because of this the Pseudophed was moved behind the counter and now you have to show your I.D. and register to buy it. You are limited to how much you can buy in a month.

My quuestion for the Chemistry Majors out there is how much of the needed ingredient can you get out of a certain amount of Pseudophedrine? (Say maybe a 30 milligram single dose?) How much is needed to make this Meth?

Cat

 

[shereads]

Paging Dr. M...

 

[Zeb_Carter]

You aren't planin' on puttin' a lab on the back of you bike, are you?

 

[SeaCat]

You aren't planin' on puttin' a lab on the back of you bike, are you?

Nope, just simple curiosity on my part.

Cat

 

[dr_mabeuse]

The process of turning pseudoephedrene into methedrine (N-methyl amphetamine) involves removing a hydoxyl group (an OH. Molecular weight ~17) from the pseudoephedrene (Molecular weight 165.23). The change in overall molecular weight is therefore from 165.23 to ~148.23 for a conversion of about 90% in mass, so in a perfect world, 30 mg of pseudoephedrine would give you 90% X 30mg=27mg of methedrine. This is the maximum possible or "theoretical" yield, but this isn't a perfect world and no synthesis gives you a theoretical yield.

I've seen the kitchen chemistry synthesis of meth using phosphorous from matchbooks and ammonia, battery acid, and Drano, and I'd be very surprised if the overall yield was any better than 50% overall. How many pseudophed tablets are there in a pack? 12? 12 pills X 30 mg /pill X 50% X 90% = 162 mg meth, which hardly seems like it's worth the trouble to me. But there's another factor involved: stereochemistry.

You want to stick around for the lecture?

There are two forms of methedrine, a "right-handed" form and a "left-handed" form, mirror images of each other, like your left and right hands. (These are called enantiomers or stereo isomers in the business.) They're identical in every practical way EXCEPT THAT only the right-handed form is pharmacologically active. The left-handed form doesn't do diddly. Pseudoephedrine is all "right-handed" stuff (It's sometimes called 'd' or '+' pseudoephedrine to show this) and meth made by the above kitchen dehydroxylation process is all right-handed too, or twice as strong as the usual street meth, which is a mixture of right-handed and left-handed molecules (a "racemic mixture" we call it). So since your kitchen meth is twice as strong, you could cut it 2:1 with lactose or something and still sell it. So now our 30 mg-->324 mg methedrine and now we're starting to get somewhere. Get three packs of pills and we've got a gram of meth.

Hope this helps...

 

[shereads]

The change in overall molecular weight is therefore from 165.23 to ~148.23 for a conversion of about 90% in mass

<snip>

Hope this helps...

Oh it does. It does help.



Science talk!

 

[Guest]

Oh it does. It does help.



Science talk!

C'mon.

You know it makes you squirm.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Science talk with fingerless weight-lifting gloves on!

 

[Weird Harold]

Here in the United States you used to be able to easily buy Pseudofedrine Sulfate, which is a Anti-Hystimine.

For me, when my Sinuses lock up tight the only thing that works well is Claritin-D which is Psuedopfedrine Sulfate and Loratidine.

A minor Quibble: My package of generic Sudafed says it is "Psuedoephedrine HCL and labels it a "nasal decongestant."

My bottle of generic Loratidine labels it an antihisatime which would make Claritin-D similar to Actifed which is sudafed and an antihistamine in combination (Triproladine HCL in the case of Actifed)

 

[Edward Teach]

The process of turning pseudoephedrene into methedrine (N-methyl amphetamine) involves removing a hydoxyl group (an OH. Molecular weight ~17) from the pseudoephedrene (Molecular weight 165.23). The change in overall molecular weight is therefore from 165.23 to ~148.23 for a conversion of about 90% in mass, so in a perfect world, 30 mg of pseudoephedrine would give you 90% X 30mg=27mg of methedrine. This is the maximum possible or "theoretical" yield, but this isn't a perfect world and no synthesis gives you a theoretical yield.

I've seen the kitchen chemistry synthesis of meth using phosphorous from matchbooks and ammonia, battery acid, and Drano, and I'd be very surprised if the overall yield was any better than 50% overall. How many pseudophed tablets are there in a pack? 12? 12 pills X 30 mg /pill X 50% X 90% = 162 mg meth, which hardly seems like it's worth the trouble to me. But there's another factor involved: stereochemistry.

You want to stick around for the lecture?

There are two forms of methedrine, a "right-handed" form and a "left-handed" form, mirror images of each other, like your left and right hands. (These are called enantiomers or stereo isomers in the business.) They're identical in every practical way EXCEPT THAT only the right-handed form is pharmacologically active. The left-handed form doesn't do diddly. Pseudoephedrine is all "right-handed" stuff (It's sometimes called 'd' or '+' pseudoephedrine to show this) and meth made by the above kitchen dehydroxylation process is all right-handed too, or twice as strong as the usual street meth, which is a mixture of right-handed and left-handed molecules (a "racemic mixture" we call it). So since your kitchen meth is twice as strong, you could cut it 2:1 with lactose or something and still sell it. So now our 30 mg-->324 mg methedrine and now we're starting to get somewhere. Get three packs of pills and we've got a gram of meth.

Hope this helps...

Yeah, what Doc said.

 

[emap]

Related question. What the heck do they use cough syrup for or did they stop doing that?

 

[sutherngent985]

Related question. What the heck do they use cough syrup for or did they stop doing that?

I think cough syrup was used years ago to get high because it had codeine in it. The makers took out the codeine and replaced with something which wont get you high. I do know that codeine will give a fairly decent high, but I think you had to drink quite a bit if cough syrup to get the high.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I think cough syrup was used years ago to get high because it had codeine in it. The makers took out the codeine and replaced with something which wont get you high. I do know that codeine will give a fairly decent high, but I think you had to drink quite a bit if cough syrup to get the high.

Right. Codeine is an opiate, and all opiates are cough suppresents. (All opiates affect the respiratory system, and the usual cause of death in an opiate overdose, if one doesn't choke on one's vomit, is due to asphyxiation.) But there was enough codeine in a bottle of cough syrup for a nice buzz, and enterprising college students used to go one better: they'd dip cigarettes in the stuff and let them dry and smoke them, which is a much more efficient way of taking the drug, kind of like smoking opium.

They took the codeine out of cough syrup in the 60's and replaced it with other, less effective medicines, but kids still guzzle the stuff for a terrible high. It's called robo-tripping now, and it's more dangerous and destructive than the codeine was.

 

[shereads]

Yeah, what Doc said.

Coffee spew. Lawsuit.

 

[shereads]

Science talk with fingerless weight-lifting gloves on!

I am now officially High on Life.

 

[glynndah]

Oh, I dunno know. I'm a 51 year-old librarian/lunch lady. Buying Sudafed is the closest I come most of the time to an illicit activity.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Oh, I dunno know. I'm a 51 year-old librarian/lunch lady. Buying Sudafed is the closest I come most of the time to an illicit activity.

You nasty addict you! You probably even treat the pills meanly which makes you a drug abuser as well!

 

[Zeb_Carter]

So if I purchased or acquired 10 packs of 24 at 30mg each I would now have 324mg x 24 x 10 = 77,760mgs of the good stuff or 77.76 grams. And it's only been stepped on once.

At $25-30 a 1/4 gram that's $9,331.20 minus the cost to cook @ approx. $200.00 and that's $7,331.20 profit.

Now if I step on it again my profit sores to $16,662.40.

True it's only a quarter as effective as the original but what do I care.

 

[Safe_Bet]

So if I purchased or acquired 10 packs of 24 at 30mg each I would now have 324mg x 24 x 10 = 77,760mgs of the good stuff or 77.76 grams. And it's only been stepped on once.

At $25-30 a 1/4 gram that's $9,331.20 minus the cost to cook @ approx. $200.00 and that's $7,331.20 profit.

Now if I step on it again my profit sores to $16,662.40.

True it's only a quarter as effective as the original but what do I care.

I see where you're going with this - Brilliant!

So how many packages of Sudafed do we need to pay off the Bail-Out plan?

 

[Zeb_Carter]

I see where you're going with this - Brilliant!

So how many packages of Sudafed do we need to pay off the Bail-Out plan?

Well, my own personal bail-out plan would call for around 50 - 100 24 tab packets. The other bail-out plan was ill conceived and stupid and should have been scrapped.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Well, my own personal bail-out plan would call for around 50 - 100 24 tab packets. The other bail-out plan was ill conceived and stupid and should have been scrapped.

Where the hell is your patriotism?

DON”T make me use the “C” word!

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Where the hell is your patriotism?

DON”T make me use the “C” word!

Don't question my patriotism, I did my duty and served in the military, the real military, unlike most. Don't blame me if the only place I was posted was Colorado Springs, Colorado . Of course there were the occasional junkets to Korea and Johnston Island, but most of my time in service was spent at Peterson AFB, Colorado Springs, Colorado.

ETA: I just don't see why my tax dollars have to be used to bailout a company(s) that knew they were going to have trouble with the loans they were making. And as far as congress pushing them to make the loans, nobody ever accused them of be smart! Only greedy.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Don't question my patriotism, I did my duty and served in the military, the real military, unlike most. Don't blame me if the only place I was posted was Colorado Springs, Colorado . Of course there were the occasional junkets to Korea and Johnston Island, but most of my time in service was spent at Peterson AFB, Colorado Springs, Colorado.

ETA: I just don't see why my tax dollars have to be used to bailout a company(s) that knew they were going to have trouble with the loans they were making. And as far as congress pushing them to make the loans, nobody ever accused them of be smart! Only greedy.

Please tell me you are not serious! Tell me that you just have a really dry sense of humor and that you are pulling my leg.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Please tell me you are not serious! Tell me that you just have a really dry sense of humor and that you are pulling my leg.

Nope, as serious as a heart attack, which I have experience with and it wasn't fun.

 

[Guest]

Zeb, I really think Safe_Bet was kidding.

I was enjoying the back and forth bit between the two of you until I realized you were taking it as if it was serious.