The End of Civility?

[SweetWitch]

A post just like this one could have been posted a year ago. Or a year gefore that. Or a year before that.

In fact, it was. Everyone always seem to reminisce the good old days. And everone seems to selectively filter out that there were bad old days too.

(Except me of course. Cause I'm better than all of you. )

When I first got here, one of the first things I saw was this big, dirty name-calling flamewar raging over several threads, people accusing each other left and right of god knows what, suspecting anyone who agreed with the other side of being a fake alt, and going on rampant conspiratory ranting-crusades to prove it, shouting "troll" at each other and being as nasty as can be. Just as ugly and uncivil as anything you've seen here lately.

That was the AH in early 2004.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm having a good time right now. The good ol' days can be damned. Right now is fun.

Every once in a while, JBJ comes up with a lyrical zinger, like the one he posted the other day, "putting a tap dancer in a ballet". As a songwriter, I'm always looking for those phrases that jump off the page, and JBJ is full of them. Putting him on ignore would be counterproductive to my appreciation of language.

But it is nice to see Shang back. If only we could all aspire to his/her (?) level of discourse.

The antics of BFW and Scouries do draw a certain amount of scorn, as do those of Ami and a few others. I think that's to be expected. In fact, I think that's the reason for their approach - to garner more attention to their cause. In that light, I don't feel guilty about piling on, since to leave them unchallenged would indicate approval of their spouted inanities, which could reflect poorly on the community as a whole. (At least that's my excuse.)

Anyway, thanks to the OP for bringing up the subject of civility. I'll make an effort to keep it in mind, at least for the next five or ten minutes.

I have to disagree with you, Dee. Every time you respond to the non-sense of the poo-flingers, you give them power. They have the power to respond to you, to attack you, to anger and upset you. If you ignore them, realize that what their doing is quite embarrassing and sad, you take that power from them. They lash out and rage for attention. If you don't pay attention, it takes the wind from their sails.

Oops. Wrong thread.

You're so adorable.

 

[jomar]

Anger is a worthless tool for any serious long-term goal, but I don't expect that to stop anyone. It is, alas, a fun tool for some people, and that ensures its popularity. If they can convince themselves that it's all in service of a cause, that's just icing on the cake.

And they probably don't even realize anger is a secondary emotion.

 

[tickledkitty]

(Typoed that as "head" initially; I don't recommend that either.)

Um. Ew.

A post just like this one could have been posted a year ago. Or a year gefore that. Or a year before that.

In fact, it was. Everyone always seem to reminisce the good old days. And everone seems to selectively filter out that there were bad old days too.

(Except me of course. Cause I'm better than all of you. )

When I first got here, one of the first things I saw was this big, dirty name-calling flamewar raging over several threads, people accusing each other left and right of god knows what, suspecting anyone who agreed with the other side of being a fake alt, and going on rampant conspiratory ranting-crusades to prove it, shouting "troll" at each other and being as nasty as can be. Just as ugly and uncivil as anything you've seen here lately.

That was the AH in early 2004.

I'm sure you're right. Maybe it just bothers me more now because I actually know what's going on. Being a hapless noob has its benefits, apparently.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

DEE ZIRE

Thank you.

Many of my zingers are published in the efforts of others, especially my humorous anecdotes. I also sell humorous original quotes to crypto-quote puzzle makers. My latest effort is drawing political cartoons.

Cartoons, of course, demand a KO with the first punch. Obama will be a lot of fun because he has such thin skin....covered with racism antennae. His acolytes will spend the next 4 years in a funk as some of us try to break his glass jaw. Farrakan just confirmed that Obama is indeed the Messiah.

 

[BlackShanglan]

(Except me of course. Cause I'm better than all of you. )

Well, that goes without saying.

(But as for Shang's snoofling? Can I have some, too?)

It's the one commodity that no economic downturn to drive into short supply. Free snooflage for everyone!

(And Gnome, I'm much obliged for your faith in my ability to maintain a strong snooflage supply in the face of a uncertain and volatile market. )

 

[rgraham666]

How can the market for snooflage be volatile when every body wants it?

 

[BlackShanglan]

How can the market for snooflage be volatile when every body wants it?

Citing fears of long-term economic instability, some households have cut back to mere snufflage.

I'm doing my best to stabilize the exchange rate and provide a snufflage-to-snooflage bail-out.

 

[rgraham666]

Citing fears of long-term economic instability, some households have cut back to mere snufflage.

I'm doing my best to stabilize the exchange rate and provide a snufflage-to-snooflage bail-out.

My brain hurts.

 

[Guest]

Well, that goes without saying.



It's the one commodity that no economic downturn to drive into short supply. Free snooflage for everyone!

(And Gnome, I'm much obliged for your faith in my ability to maintain a strong snooflage supply in the face of a uncertain and volatile market. )

But, Shang, you have your very own private snoofleupagus...

 

[gauchecritic]

The thing is, however uncivil it all is I've never been angry when posting. I've posted many expletives, I've posted some biting, unrealised, sarcasm but I've never been angry when I press submit.

One of the reasons for this is that I learned, after a while, never to apologise. and that, is really hard work. Having to stand behind every single thing you say and post, which is one of the reasons it takes me so long to compose them.

(I mean really. I posted a one word reply to a recent thread and it took me several minutes to decide on that one word, which was always going to be an expletive, but which one? In the end I went for what I deemed the funniest)**

The largest drawback is hurting friends, when they read something other into what you say, or the cumulative effect of several posts giving rise to apparent points of view which aren't explicitly expressed and without any intent whatsoever. Such is the written word.


**Which is quite interesting and probably revealing, the choice of humorous reply being proportional to the disgust or rage.

BTW. Putting a smiley next to cutting remarks butters no parsnips. I eschew smileys, and now I have a cold coming on.

*eschew*

*escHEW*

*ESCHEW*

 

[Sandy_Fox]

The thing is, however uncivil it all is I've never been angry when posting. I've posted many expletives, I've posted some biting, unrealised, sarcasm but I've never been angry when I press submit.

One of the reasons for this is that I learned, after a while, never to apologise. and that, is really hard work. Having to stand behind every single thing you say and post, which is one of the reasons it takes me so long to compose them.

(I mean really. I posted a one word reply to a recent thread and it took me several minutes to decide on that one word, which was always going to be an expletive, but which one? In the end I went for what I deemed the funniest)**

The largest drawback is hurting friends, when they read something other into what you say, or the cumulative effect of several posts giving rise to apparent points of view which aren't explicitly expressed and without any intent whatsoever. Such is the written word.


**Which is quite interesting and probably revealing, the choice of humorous reply being proportional to the disgust or rage.

BTW. Putting a smiley next to cutting remarks butters no parsnips. I eschew smileys, and now I have a cold coming on.

*eschew*

*escHEW*

*ESCHEW*

Thank you for saying that. A cart load of BS with a smilie face after it is still a cart load of BS. Seems like a lot of folks kinda hide behind the smilies, regardless of what they say.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Thank you for saying that. A cart load of BS with a smilie face after it is still a cart load of BS. Seems like a lot of folks kinda hide behind the smilies, regardless of what they say.

Isn't it funny-- that smiley looks exactly like a lying smile, too, when it's used that way.

 

[Guest]

The thing is, however uncivil it all is I've never been angry when posting. I've posted many expletives, I've posted some biting, unrealised, sarcasm but I've never been angry when I press submit.

One of the reasons for this is that I learned, after a while, never to apologise. and that, is really hard work. Having to stand behind every single thing you say and post, which is one of the reasons it takes me so long to compose them.

(I mean really. I posted a one word reply to a recent thread and it took me several minutes to decide on that one word, which was always going to be an expletive, but which one? In the end I went for what I deemed the funniest)**

The largest drawback is hurting friends, when they read something other into what you say, or the cumulative effect of several posts giving rise to apparent points of view which aren't explicitly expressed and without any intent whatsoever. Such is the written word.


**Which is quite interesting and probably revealing, the choice of humorous reply being proportional to the disgust or rage.

BTW. Putting a smiley next to cutting remarks butters no parsnips. I eschew smileys, and now I have a cold coming on.

*eschew*

*escHEW*

*ESCHEW*

Gesundheit.

(So's your face.)

 

[gauchecritic]

Gesundheit.

(So's your face.)

Which (if I can type whilst still laughing) reminds me of an old Yorkshire saying that goes: "Thy is."

 

[Guest]

Which (if I can type whilst still laughing) reminds me of an old Yorkshire saying that goes: "Thy is."

(Not too certain of the meaning? Is that like - "Nuh uh, YOU are!")

 

[BlackShanglan]

I hope you do know, Gauche, how very fond of you I am. However, years of watching my father repeatedly make an ass of himself through a terminal inability to apologize for anything, ever - including shutting an electric car window on my mother's hand - has left me cold on the "I never apologize" line. I can imagine only two assumptions that could justify such an approach: either the belief that one is never wrong, or a callousness to the results of one's occasional slips. I can't really believe either of those to be true of you, but that simply leaves me a baffled as to why an otherwise charming fellow would take that tack.

Then again, many things baffle me. I hate to say it, but there's quite a queue in front of you.

 

[gauchecritic]

It's not an inability horsey and refers only and entirely to posting on threads.

I'm not quick witted enough (and I don't believe anyone is) to be able to follow that in RL. Offending people by word in RL is an easy slip to make and in my case, contrition and apology flow unreservedly when face to face and in the heat of the moment.

But online there is plenty of thinking time and all anyone has to do, to avoid less than salubrious sobriquets, is pause before hitting 'submit'.

All the egregious epithets can be muttered whilst typing. They can be voiced live whilst pressing the button but what gets sent and printed needs thought.

The majority of us are writers (or at least dabbling dilettantes) and would mostly never dream of posting a story that hadn't been given thought and edited to within an inch of its life.

Civility, on the boards, lies very much in the realm of what a novelist wants readers to see in his book.

So I would suggest that in the Authors' Hangout a poor vocabulary, as evidenced by the gnashing of teeth and invidious interjections is entirely out of place in those that would profess a love of words.

(I'll finish there because I've run out of apt alliteration)

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

God created violence because people try to weasle around civility. Gauche is a master of weasle words.

 

[gauchecritic]

Gauche is a master of <> words.

That should look really good in me sig. (had to remove the snipped word for spelling)

 

[BlackShanglan]

Interesting thoughts, Gauche. I certainly like the emphasis on thinking one's posts through carefully. We'll just have to differ on whether that's likely to yield consistently perfect results. I think it's human nature to occasionally miss a connection or a different point of view; that's what apologies are there for. They recognize the inherent but essentially innocent fallibility of humanity.

(Taken from Miss Manner's Handbook for the Catholic Mannered.)

 

[CharleyH]

I hope you do know, Gauche, how very fond of you I am. However, years of watching my father repeatedly make an ass of himself through a terminal inability to apologize for anything, ever - including shutting an electric car window on my mother's hand - has left me cold on the "I never apologize" line. I can imagine only two assumptions that could justify such an approach: either the belief that one is never wrong, or a callousness to the results of one's occasional slips. I can't really believe either of those to be true of you, but that simply leaves me a baffled as to why an otherwise charming fellow would take that tack.

Then again, many things baffle me. I hate to say it, but there's quite a queue in front of you.

I love you Shang. I say that first and I really do mean it, but I think you a bit harsh on Gauche. I can understand the "never apologize" because I have nothing to regret- not anything done to me and not anything I have done. I love life no matter what was/is dealt to me. I know Gauche feels the same.

 

[sr71plt]

Well, being cute in skewering and ever so pleased with yourself in the use of the language isn't ipso facto, civil.

 

[BlackShanglan]

*nuzzles* to Charleyh. At least there's ample love and goodwill about to help us over even so substantial an area of disagreement.

I did also seriously mean what I said above. I recognize that my distaste for the non-apology position is strongly shaped by seeing a particularly ugly version of it over and over. I realize that that makes it more difficult for me to see a benign purpose to it; that doesn't mean it's not there.

 

[CharleyH]

I think it's human nature to occasionally miss a connection or a different point of view; that's what apologies are there for. They recognize the inherent but essentially innocent fallibility of humanity.

Fallibility may be human nature, but I'm a true believer in not apologizing for things I don't really regret. Even the mistakes and flaws brought me to where I am, and I'm not sorry I made them. Many people (like me) apologize for far more than we should.

 

[damppanties]

Fallibility may be human nature, but I'm a true believer in not apologizing for things I don't really regret. Even the mistakes and flaws brought me to where I am, and I'm not sorry I made them. Many people (like me) apologize for far more than we should.

You don't have to be sorry you made the mistake. You can be sorry for causing misunderstanding / hurt.