Transparency

[BiBunny]

I have a lot of failings, but this is what I have the most trouble with, hands down.

I'm a very private person. (Yeah, I know you wouldn't believe it from the stuff I post here regularly, but humor me, please.) There are various reasons for this, but I won't get into them right now because I'm not sure if they're actually relevant to the thread or not. I'll throw them out there later if someone really wants to know.

I'll tell you what I think all day long. I'll talk about events and people and information and whatever else, but the second "feelings" get mentioned, I clam the hell up. It's easier to pull teeth than it is to get me to talk about what's really going on in my head and in my heart. I generally have to be backed into a corner and coerced.

It's taken me a long time, but I'm finally realizing that this isn't exactly the best attitude to have. I'm very independent and used to taking care of things on my own. People I'm with get angry with me because I get into some crazy situations and won't ask for help. I don't see burdening others with problems they can't do anything about. The most common complaint from people I'm with is "Dammit, you're so stubborn and hard-headed, and you act like you don't need me at all."

That's not the truth of it, though. I DO need them, else I wouldn't keep them in my life. But, for them, that isn't enough. And, honestly, I guess I can understand that, at least intellectually. I'm sure it's not very confidence-inspiring for them to have to back me into a corner to get me to own up to my true feelings about something.

In all relationships, this is a problem. In BDSM ones, it's really bad. I know all the rigmarole about it being based on mutual trust and open communication and the sharing of feelings. I KNOW this. I just suck at it. I'm good at lying around with no clothes on. I'm not very good at being naked.

Anybody got any suggestions? Thanks.

 

[ataxia.girl]

i have determined that this time when i am with Daddy and i FEEL like crying i will just cry. If i feel like screaming i will do it. If i feel like nothing and just staring into space i will do it.

With just this ONE person i will be and feel whatever i am in that moment and just trust him to take care of it.

i'm not really interested in talking talking talking all the time with him. This is something he has taught me. Talking about your feelings isn't always the same as truly expressing them and with at least one person i am just going to express them.

 

[BiBunny]

i have determined that this time when i am with Daddy and i FEEL like crying i will just cry. If i feel like screaming i will do it. If i feel like nothing and just staring into space i will do it.

With just this ONE person i will be and feel whatever i am in that moment and just trust him to take care of it.

i'm not really interested in talking talking talking all the time with him. This is something he has taught me. Talking about your feelings isn't always the same as truly expressing them and with at least one person i am just going to express them.

I'll buy that.

I still don't know HOW to do it, though. I mean, no matter how close I am to someone, no matter how much in my heart I need him/her, I still hold that person at arm's length when we're together. I'm afraid of SOMETHING. I just don't know what it is. Maybe of placing the burden of my feelings on the other person, of making him/her feel responsible for me. I don't know.

 

[BiBunny]

Sorry for the double post, but this just occurred to me, and I didn't want to edit my other post.

I don't know how to be open. I don't know how to let my guard down. I don't know how to lower my defenses. It's not a matter of not wanting to do these things. It's that I do not know how, and I'm scared to even try.

And that was way more than I wanted to reveal, but I'm trying to be better about this.

 

[keagan043]

Wow, this is the exact reason I joined Lit last night. I could have written your exact post, BiBunny. It isn't the emotions with me .. I can cry and be vulnerable that way, but I cannot seem to express my feelings .. when I feel pressured to do so, I have panic attacks and shut down. Which, as you can imagine is very VERY frustrating.

It will be interesting to see the responses .. but at least I know I am not alone.

 

[intothewoods]

I'm not surprised to hear that at all, because I have noticed that when you post about an issue troubling you, you'll write about some of it, but you will keep a lot of the details close to your vest. You certainly have no obligation to spill your guts on an internet message board of course!

How much you choose to reveal to people is a deep, kinda complicated issue. It's in part a good thing that you are guarded. It's protective. As far as what is holding you back, there could be a number of different reasons. Is it a control thing?

 

[ataxia.girl]

I'll buy that.

I still don't know HOW to do it, though. I mean, no matter how close I am to someone, no matter how much in my heart I need him/her, I still hold that person at arm's length when we're together. I'm afraid of SOMETHING. I just don't know what it is. Maybe of placing the burden of my feelings on the other person, of making him/her feel responsible for me. I don't know.

Well to a degree you just need someone who can see through it and pick up on the little nuances that do come out. i don't think its something you will be able to fix all by yourself. You can help by not getting in the way of yourself.

Part of it is just being able to look at them at those moments and say "i'm really afraid of something right now, i don't know what" and then just articulate what little you can about what you are feeling or not feeling. You don't necessarily have to understand it or even know.

It is very easy to get hung up on thinking you have to understand yourself before you can communicate anything. Its okay to just tell them you feel awkward and closed off and you aren't sure how to open up. i think if i did that my Daddy would just tell me i don't need to worry about it and i would immediately feel not only better but more open.

It sounds like you are trying to take on the responsibility for opening up when part of that lies with them to open you.

You may like the book Intimate Communion by David Deida.

 

[ataxia.girl]

Sorry for the double post, but this just occurred to me, and I didn't want to edit my other post.

I don't know how to be open. I don't know how to let my guard down. I don't know how to lower my defenses. It's not a matter of not wanting to do these things. It's that I do not know how, and I'm scared to even try.

And that was way more than I wanted to reveal, but I'm trying to be better about this.

THAT is what you need to reveal. Find someone who is not afraid of that and let them worry about the rest. You just need to be willing to reveal your own weakness which in this case is a fear of opening up and being vulnerable. You will become more vulnerable simply by sharing that fact.

 

[BiBunny]

Wow, this is the exact reason I joined Lit last night. I could have written your exact post, BiBunny. It isn't the emotions with me .. I can cry and be vulnerable that way, but I cannot seem to express my feelings .. when I feel pressured to do so, I have panic attacks and shut down. Which, as you can imagine is very VERY frustrating.

It will be interesting to see the responses .. but at least I know I am not alone.

Were we separated at birth?

I hope this little discussion helps you, too. I know how much all this sucks, and you have my sympathies. :rolse:

I'm not surprised to hear that at all, because I have noticed that when you post about an issue troubling you, you'll write about some of it, but you will keep a lot of the details close to your vest. You certainly have no obligation to spill your guts on an internet message board of course!

How much you choose to reveal to people is a deep, kinda complicated issue. It's in part a good thing that you are guarded. It's protective. As far as what is holding you back, there could be a number of different reasons. Is it a control thing?

Haha, busted.

I think it probably is a control thing. And I think the need for that control stems from some kind of undefined fear of some sort. The whys and wherefores are what I'm still in the dark about.

Well to a degree you just need someone who can see through it and pick up on the little nuances that do come out. i don't think its something you will be able to fix all by yourself. You can help by not getting in the way of yourself.

Part of it is just being able to look at them at those moments and say "i'm really afraid of something right now, i don't know what" and then just articulate what little you can about what you are feeling or not feeling. You don't necessarily have to understand it or even know.

It is very easy to get hung up on thinking you have to understand yourself before you can communicate anything. Its okay to just tell them you feel awkward and closed off and you aren't sure how to open up. i think if i did that my Daddy would just tell me i don't need to worry about it and i would immediately feel not only better but more open.

It sounds like you are trying to take on the responsibility for opening up when part of that lies with them to open you.

You may like the book Intimate Communion by David Deida.

Well, that's the problem, actually. When I see that someone CAN see more than I want to reveal to him/her, I shut down even more. It becomes this vicious cycle where nobody really gets anything out of it. I need to know how NOT to get in the way of myself.

Damned annoying defense mechanisms.

 

[Homburg]

Y'know, you and I have had some pretty in-depth talks, and you seemed to have been pretty open with me. Look at those conversations and try to suss out why you had less issues with talking to me. Then replicate those conditions mentally.

You probably already know about neuro-linguistic programming. Can't hurt to try, eh?

 

[keagan043]

Were we separated at birth?

I hope this little discussion helps you, too. I know how much all this sucks, and you have my sympathies.

We must have been

I think just knowing I'm not alone in what I am experiencing makes me feel less "broken". And, yes it does suck .. hard.

It is like this is the last final thing and I can't seem to let myself go ... I am scared beyond belief but I can't put my finger on the exact why. Sometimes I think I am afraid of losing myself, like I will have nothing left. Perhaps that is how it should be, but I don't know how to get there. I am just grateful, my daddy is a patient man.

 

[celticsunspiral]

I understand exactly what you are saying, I don't think (I could be wrong) that I completly shut down because I usually give someone a chance.

For me I think I only show most people the top layer of me and am afraid to really let them know me. There are many reasons I think that I do this, because I never feel like I quite fit in, or I have been hurt one to many times. I always worry that I am spilling too much and the other person is not really interested I don't want to force myself on anyone. Another thing maybe is that I hide things and feelings from myself, when something really bothers me I put it in a hidey hole inside myself and then try to move on. Of course that does not mean that the issue still isn't effecting me but sometimes I don't even know why I am upset at first and then I have to figure it out.

One thing I really like since starting a BDSM relationship is the honesty and openness that I am forcing myself to show. Since I am new to this, I know it is what I want, I am trying very very hard to be as open and honest as I possibly can be. My thought is that how can Sir know me and choose what is best for me if I do not let him know what I think and feel, and how can I as a sub know this is right for me if I am not 100% open. Especially since we are in a LDR and Sir cant see or hear me. Writing it down helps me figure out my true thoughts and feeling and opens to Sir who I am. I think it is also easier sometimes to talk with a faceless person that you may never meet.

It is HARD, probably one of the hardest things I am doing. I worry every email or IM am I sharing too much or too little, will I anger or disapoint him, what does he think of me. But I keep telling myself I want to do this. Just remind yourself it is what you want and need to do, pick someone you trust and give them a chance. Once you open to one person you will open to others.

Good Luck!

 

[Zoots_owner]

When I see that someone CAN see more than I want to reveal to him/her, I shut down even more. It becomes this vicious cycle where nobody really gets anything out of it. I need to know how NOT to get in the way of myself.

Damned annoying defense mechanisms.

I wonder if most of this isn't a trust issue.

When we're growing up, we know that if we tell our siblings or friends too much about our feelings, they're likely to eventually be blabbed in the worst possible way, or otherwise used against us. As adults, the risks are a little different, and hopefully lower, but it's really hard to overcome that early training. If, before the problem under discussion started, you had bad experiences along these lines, maybe give a little thought to different approaches to solving it, rather than just shutting down to everyone?

I'm not one to advocate being totally open with everybody, not at all. But I do think that it should be your conscious decision about whether to be open with a particular individual or not, rather than have it be something which is out of your control.

Sometimes my girl doesn't know her own feelings, and would often be too shy to discuss them if she did, but I know her well enough to be able to read most of them, and point them out to her. She always appreciates this, since it saves her from having to say things which she finds difficult. I gather that, in a similar situation, it'd really bother you if someone could tell your feelings that way. I'm thinking that maybe this should be one of the first things you try to overcome, since it prevents anyone else from helping you. Getting over it with one very well chosen person might be all it takes to turn the tide the other way. The challenge then is to be a good enough judge of character to pick the right person to do it with.

 

[rida]

I'm scared to even try
.

I think that is the crux of the issue. Fear.
Perhaps if you can pint point what you fear, it might help you getting to the point of trying.

Also, I found the post below very insightful:

It is very easy to get hung up on thinking you have to understand yourself before you can communicate anything. Its okay to just tell them you feel awkward and closed off and you aren't sure how to open up. i think if i did that my Daddy would just tell me i don't need to worry about it and i would immediately feel not only better but more open.

I'm the same at time. I want to have everything clear in my mind, have all the answer before opening up and expressing my feeling. The fear that drive such a behavior is that: what if I open up and the other person get scared and runs away (happened in the past) and I'm left open and vulnerable? I might as well have my answers before hand so I am not totally lost if that happens.

Of course, being the way I am, I cannot hold on to my thoughts and feeling and they will just overflow and smack the other person square. Interestingly thou, even when they do run away scared, the act of opening in itself makes me feel better and stronger; as if having let the feelings go out and survived, makes me not need to control them anymore.

 

[myinnerslut]

this is going to sound a little silly, but mabye it would help you to "practice" saying the things that are tough. im not telling you to write out a script, but to actually practice saying what you want to say in a safe way. use a landline or a friends phone to call your cellphone, and just start talking. you can do this in your room, while you pace, however you feel comfortable. then the best part it, you can call you voicemail and see how it all sounds.

it really does sound like a silly technique but being able to just talk/rant/ramble without having to worry about making sense has helped me in the past.

 

[ecstaticsub]

I'm always much better about writing out my feelings than saying them in person. At this point in my relationship it is almost the only time I ever email my PYL--those few times that I feel I need to express something that is bothering me emotionally. I have also written when I want to express love or gratitude above the normal.

It is just easier that wy, I can proof read and rewrite. It's less scary than in person.

 

[BiBunny]

I'm always much better about writing out my feelings than saying them in person. At this point in my relationship it is almost the only time I ever email my PYL--those few times that I feel I need to express something that is bothering me emotionally. I have also written when I want to express love or gratitude above the normal.

It is just easier that wy, I can proof read and rewrite. It's less scary than in person.

I've always hidden behind this. (Not saying that's what you're doing, of course.) I can generally pour out my feelings in text, but not in spoken words. At some point, though, I think I have to put away the cowardice, look people in the eye, and tell them the truth.

Folks think that strength and courage go hand-in-hand, but I don't think they necessarily go together. I'm strong, but quite possibly the biggest coward I know. I hate it.

Thanks to everyone who's responded. I've got a lot to think about, and I'd appreciate it if y'all kept it coming my way.

 

[vampire28]

If you were a coward, you would never have brought this up. Fear does not make you a coward.

I understand what you're saying because I am much the same. I don't like to talk about my feelings although I have no problem talking about anything else. I sometimes wonder if anyone knows the real me, and I know that if they don't, it's my fault because I haven't allowed them to know me.

For me, the best thing is to let out a little of my feelings at a time with a few people that I really trust. I explained the situation to the three people I picked for this, and I told them that I couldn't just let go and release everything all at once. I was very lucky because they understood and were willing to help me. It takes time, and I'm no where near finished with this, but it has helped.

I hope you can find your way in this.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

Anybody got any suggestions? Thanks.

Sorry, no, because I identify with pretty much everything you said.

I will however, be reading the other responses with interest.

Thanks for posting this.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

BB, I can identify with what you're talking about but I'm not entirely sure if my experience is relevant.

My mother knew all her adult life that she was going to get Huntingon's Disease, a degenerative neurological disorder, similar to Parkinson's or Alzheimer's. My grandfather became ill in his 30s and died in his 40s of the disease, which is a dominant genetic trait that has a 50/50 chance of manifesting in any children. My grandfather died so young partly because he was misdiagnosed repeatedly and in the 70s, the only test for the condition was a biopsy on the brain post-mortem. My mother was a single parent from when I was about 8 and she was profiled for the gene in the 90s and found that she had it. Her style of parenting was therefore, a bit unique. She always pushed us to be independent, never coddled or fussed over us. At times, my sister and I felt quite unloved because mum was always hopeless at expressing it. With hindsight, we now know she was just terrified that she might become ill before we were old enough to take care of ourselves. Her attitude was always 'you never rely on anybody else; not me, not each other, not a man, nobody. Always have a plan B.'

Losing her was terribly painful. Even though she was already symptomatic, she was still living independently at home and - to my view - capable of enjoying a few more years of independence and dignity. She had other ideas. She made the decision to take her own life while she still had all her faculties. She always swore she would never rot in a nursing home but I had no idea quite how determined she was not to be a burden to my sister or I (not that we would have considered her one.)

So I have always had this drilled into me: never depend on anyone else, always pull your weight, people don't last forever. It has coloured all my adult relationships. I love my friends, I love my Master and I want them in my life forever but I know it may not work out that way. If Master died, I would grieve terribly but I would survive. If he left me, I would mourn our relationship but again, I would manage. This had been compounded by my nurse training. I know just how fragile life is and sometimes people have thought me unfeeling when I can act calmly and almost detachedly in an emergency situation, even if it involves people I love. In order to be useful, I have to be detached but sometimes I wonder if I'm too good at it.

I love the people in my life but I know in my heart that I don't really need anybody.

I think also that it's part of the reason I'm not interested in having kids. Being needed like that makes me feel vulnerable and scared. Master needs me at the moment but as a character trait, neediness is one of the most gut-churningly repellent ones as far as I'm concerned. To me it represents a desire to abdicate responsibility and despite what others may think, that's not what true M/s is about at all.

 

[wicked woman]

Just throwing out some ideas based on my own experiences.

Definitely a concern about lack of control...and being vulnerable. Concerned that people will think less of you because you need them...or need their help/advice. Completely irrational in my case because I would only be asking of them, what I'd given them numerous times. I never thought less of them...but a fear they would think less of me...because I was the strong, independent one.

As for the feelings...sometimes it's difficult for me to talk about them because, frankly, I'm often not that in touch with my feelings. I experience them...but not on an intellectual level. I don't stop to check in with myself to 'see' how I'm feeling...I just feel. If I'm not very experienced at 'seeing' what my feelings are, it's pretty hard to put them into words. As far as the writing versus in person...when you're writing about your feelings, you can take the time to find the right words...express yourself better...plus you don't have to 'face' the person and their immediate reactions. Sure it's scary...but I find if it's with someone I care deeply for, and they me...then it's worth it. I just need to remind myself that silences...as in delays to find my words...are fine.

Any way...don't know if any of this hits a bell with you, but hope you find the answer you're looking for.

 

[rida]

Got some more thinking going so sorry for butting in once again

I found that even if I can express my feelings (eventually), asking for help or showing that I might need something is much much harder for me to do. It touch a totally different level of vulnerability.

Because I am quite self reliant and can take care of myself on my own pretty well, it would have to be an extreme circumstance for me to need to ask for help (we are not talking carrying the grocery or moving furniture here). And part of me is also snobbish enough to think that if I cannot solve it on my own, I don't see you being able to. I had to learn to be humble. But there is only one person to whom I'll go for help right now, Hubby. And even with him, it is not always easy.

As for admitting that I need something and express it or ask for it ... that is even tougher. Is it the fear of rejection? of refusal? of showing a weakness and as such giving control to the person that can fulfill the need? Probably all of it. What has been helping is learning to express the need without the expectation of having it fulfilled.

Will stop rumbling now.

 

[ecstaticsub]

I've always hidden behind this. (Not saying that's what you're doing, of course.) I can generally pour out my feelings in text, but not in spoken words. At some point, though, I think I have to put away the cowardice, look people in the eye, and tell them the truth.

Folks think that strength and courage go hand-in-hand, but I don't think they necessarily go together. I'm strong, but quite possibly the biggest coward I know. I hate it.

Thanks to everyone who's responded. I've got a lot to think about, and I'd appreciate it if y'all kept it coming my way.

There is nothing cowardy about using the written word. Just as some people are visual learners, vs audio vs tactile some people need to express themselves using different means. I've been with my husband for over 25 yrs now and there are still the rare occasion where I feel I need to write him a note to explain how I am feeling instead of talking. I can better organize my thoughts that way. I don't get as emotional, and I actually make some sense.

 

[the_mgp]

vomit

 

[Janlou]

Well you're only human so this is not unusual. I think if you find the right fellow you will feel safe enough to open up.