Ain't No Time for Hate

[Etoile]

I encourage everyone to watch this segment of Bill Moyer's Journal: Rage on the Radio. (Yes, I made the ******* myself.) A complete transcript is available.

I don't understand why right-wing people are so full of hate. Liberals tend not to be hateful. There are exceptions to the rule, of course, but generally liberals don't condemn people the way conservatives do. The vitriol spewed by right-wing radio hosts is just appalling. Liberals just don't hate the way conservatives do. Why are they like this? Jesus certainly didn't tell them to propose violence against their fellow human beings. Where is this hate from? Why do they hate so much?

 

[CutieMouse]

I encourage everyone to watch this segment of Bill Moyer's Journal: Rage on the Radio. (Yes, I made the ******* myself.) A complete transcript is available.

I don't understand why right-wing people are so full of hate. Liberals tend not to be hateful. There are exceptions to the rule, of course, but generally liberals don't condemn people the way conservatives do. The vitriol spewed by right-wing radio hosts is just appalling. Liberals just don't hate the way conservatives do. Why are they like this? Jesus certainly didn't tell them to propose violence against their fellow human beings. Where is this hate from? Why do they hate so much?

You obviously haven't met the same liberals I have IRL.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

Almost twenty minutes, but well worth the listen, for both conservative and liberal thinkers. Thanks, Etoile, for posting this.

 

[Etoile]

Almost twenty minutes, but well worth the listen, for both conservative and liberal thinkers. Thanks, Etoile, for posting this.

Thanks for mentioning the length, I didn't realize it was so long!

You obviously haven't met the same liberals I have IRL.

Would you be willing to elaborate? My own experience has been entirely in the Washington DC area, and we have a lot of middle-of-the-road liberals here, so perhaps I'm not familiar with the militant ones. Would you say that you know a greater number of hateful liberals than hateful conservatives, or just that you know liberals who hate in addition to conservatives who hate?

 

[EmpressFi]

I'm more familiar with the liberals Etoile is familiar with as well. I have them in my family. My one brother, is liberal enough to say, while I may not agree with your choice, you have the right to do whatever you want to do... my other brother stopped speaking to him for a year when he found out he was pro-choice and if he knew about how I live, would either disown me or at the very least, try and exorcise my demons. Most conservatives I know are the least flexible and most poison-tongued people I've ever known. It's why I usually hold my tongue so much.

 

[Betticus]

I think that the hate is about even on both ends of the extremes with the majority of people closer to the middle.

Me, personally... I just want to be left the fuck alone.

 

[CutieMouse]

Would you be willing to elaborate? My own experience has been entirely in the Washington DC area, and we have a lot of middle-of-the-road liberals here, so perhaps I'm not familiar with the militant ones. Would you say that you know a greater number of hateful liberals than hateful conservatives, or just that you know liberals who hate in addition to conservatives who hate?

I think both sides are equally uncivil as hell.

Personally, I think a lot more conservatives are like me than most people realize - and most people who know me assume I'm not conservative, based upon my lifestyle choices (pro-choice, divorced, supportive of same sex marriage, etc), and my tolerance of those who believe differently than I... but ya know what? I self-identify as conservative. (Not Republican, but Conservative.)

 

[caela]

Liberals just don't hate the way conservatives do. Why are they like this? Jesus certainly didn't tell them to propose violence against their fellow human beings. Where is this hate from? Why do they hate so much?

I'm with CM on this one in that you're obviously not exposed to the same sort of Liberals that I am. Around here the vitriol on both sides is pretty evenly distributed. Hatred isn't the sole niche of the conservatives but seems to be the bailiwick of the extremes of both sides, neither one willing to listen to or hear what the other has to say because if you don't agree with them then you are just wrong and couldn't possibly have anything of value to say.

Most of the people I know however, whether they identify as liberal or conservative, are more in the middle holding some beliefs that could fall on either side of the line and are at least willing to discuss differing opinions and viewpoints. They may think you're wrong if you disagree with them but they won't utterly close their ears to what you have to say and are usually fairly open to the idea that you may have valid reasons for your POV.

Oh and just a sidenote, not all conservatives identify as christian so there's a good number that won't give a damn what Jesus told his followers to do. It just tends to happen that the ones shouting the loudest (and craziest) often do it from a pulpit.

 

[FFOTS4Life]

I don't understand why right-wing people are so full of hate. Liberals tend not to be hateful.

I think that the hate is about even on both ends of the extremes with the majority of people closer to the middle.

I think both sides are equally uncivil as hell.

Very interesting...I really have to agree with Bett and Cutie Mouse. I have had equally bad experiences with people from either side. It tends to be those who are most extreme as, Betticus, pointed out.

I am a registered independent. I have had such bad experiences with people insulting me, and even threatening death in one instance simply because I had a different political belief from them. I could never affiliate myself with either of the major parties.

I am all for believing strongly in whatever it is you believe in but I also believe you have to have an open mind. How can you make a truly informed decision without knowledge of other options? And for me at least, knowing other sides of political arguments and beliefs has only made my own personal feelings on certain issues stronger.

I think if we look closely those extremists who make politics such an unbearable subject for many are those that are unwilling to see any opinion, belief, etc. other than their own. Unfortunately they are often the most vocal, and tend to be the most publicized within the media.

 

[Etoile]

I should mention something. I'm speaking in a more general sense than just extremists.

Like I said, there are exceptions to every rule. Extremists are part of those exceptions. But I know more "ordinary people" conservatives who hate than I know "ordinary people" liberals who hate. For example, my uncle is not especially extremist, he is happy in his little Catholic commune in Arkansas. (He converted from Judaism at age 40 or so.) But he hates people like me (ie, gays, liberals, pro-choicers, atheists) and all that we represent. He hates us. Sure, he says that he loves me, I'm his sister's daughter, and he probably does love me. (If he didn't, he wouldn't pray for me every day/week.) But if you showed him someone with IDENTICAL values to mine, who wasn't related to him by blood, he would be angry at them and condemn them to hell.

I just see that the religious right and right-wingers in general (thanks caela for pointing out that they are not always the same) seems to be more AGAINST things than liberals do. They seem to be more willing to deny rights than to grant them. Any rights, I'm not just talking gay marriage or abortion. They think people who are different are bad or evil. Liberals just seem more accepting to me. Liberals don't tell people they should go change their lives as often as conservatives do.

I don't know. It seems like a few people here see what I'm talking about, but I'm having a hard time articulating for those who disagree. I just see so much hate from the right wing and it makes me so sad. The piece on Bill Moyers Journal was just depressing. I felt so confused when I saw it. Why do these people hate us? That's what I feel.

CM, I think you are a very unusual conservative, actually.

 

[cherokee_dove]

Etoile, i listened to that 20 minutes of pure hatred from those radio hosts, and i will be honest; when Michael Savage said that about autistic children, i damn near punched the monitor.

Obviously, he has never had an autistic child that he was close to. That was just pure filth, lies, and evil, coming out of his mouth.

Most liberals that i know are mostly centered. Not so far off-centered in their views, that they speak out about something; unless a heated discussion has started on that subject.

But i can say the same with most on the conservative side, too.

Personally, i think it comes down to the fact that since these people somehow or other became radio and news hosts; they think they have the right to flame anyone and everyone they want to.

Its not about what side a person is on, but that some people are so full of themselves and get notoriety; they then think; "Hey, I'm Mr. BigandBad, so I can say whatever I please".

And only thing to say to that is; bullshit!

 

[Etoile]

Etoile, i listened to that 20 minutes of pure hatred from those radio hosts, and i will be honest; when Michael Savage said that about autistic children, i damn near punched the monitor.

Obviously, he has never had an autistic child that he was close to. That was just pure filth, lies, and evil, coming out of his mouth.

Yeah...sometimes I wonder if THEY even believe what they are saying, or do they just make shit up to get ratings?

 

[Lamont Cranston]

Both Edges are Extreme

I have to agree with Ms. Mouse. The people on both ends of the spectrum -- liberal or conservative -- are just equally, I'll say rude and vehement rather than full of hate. I don't know if it is the Internet, that gives each extreme more voice, or a real comment on today's society versus other days, but it does seem to me that the moderate voices / middle of the debate are being lost in the noise. None of the yelling from the edges is helping us solve our most pressing issues like better education or dealing with unfunded entitlements.

We just seem to be screaming at each other. Not solving anything. I have friends at both ends of the spectrum. As a fiscal conservative who thinks the federal government should stay out of many things my democrat friends don't get me. As a social liberal who, among other things, thinks marriage is between two people regardless of sex, my republican friends don't get me.

Frankly though, until the people closer to the center of these debates actually start influencing policy by ignoring the shouting / hateful (if you prefer Etoile) people at both edges I don't think we're going to solve the problems we need to solve. Unfortunately my POV is that we're having more screaming and less productive debate and conversation these days.

I get being offended by what's on this clip... I was offended by some of it and agreed with part of it. I have the same reaction to many things coming from the liberal side of things. I'm not saying this about you Etoile, but extremism in stating or reacting to anything can be dangerous. I think we have too much of that in this world. And yes, we have to much hate too -- from every edge of every debate.

Sorry, too close to 9/11 for extremism and hate not to be on my mind. And yes, I'd like to see the current presidential campaigns start addressing some less extreme points of view so that we might have some hope that we might actually make some progress in the next few years.

Okay, sorry for the soapbox...

LC

 

[Etoile]

By the way folks: I am always open to my views being changed. In my sociology class on Wednesday there was a guy who absolutely insisted he would not change his mind about illegal immigration. They should be kicked out, he said. Their kids should not be given citizenship if they are born here, etc. I was just so surprised that even our discussion about immigration reform couldn't persuade him otherwise...he just refused to sway.

I'm not like that. I started this thread for intelligent debate and discussion. I just want you all to know that I'm open to all possibilities, okay? I just want to talk about the issue, not convince anybody that I'm right.

 

[Lamont Cranston]

By the way folks: I am always open to my views being changed.

That goes for me too and if it was true of everyone we would live in a better world.

LC

 

[cherokee_dove]

Yeah...sometimes I wonder if THEY even believe what they are saying, or do they just make shit up to get ratings?

Well, in his case; with that statement, 99.9% of what he said is just his own opinion. And made up bullshit to run kids with disabilities into the ground.

And i will be honest, that man; I HATE! Just for that statement.

 

[FFOTS4Life]

I should mention something. I'm speaking in a more general sense than just extremists.

Like I said, there are exceptions to every rule. Extremists are part of those exceptions. But I know more "ordinary people" conservatives who hate than I know "ordinary people" liberals who hate. For example, my uncle is not especially extremist, he is happy in his little Catholic commune in Arkansas. (He converted from Judaism at age 40 or so.) But he hates people like me (ie, gays, liberals, pro-choicers, atheists) and all that we represent. He hates us. Sure, he says that he loves me, I'm his sister's daughter, and he probably does love me. (If he didn't, he wouldn't pray for me every day/week.) But if you showed him someone with IDENTICAL values to mine, who wasn't related to him by blood, he would be angry at them and condemn them to hell.

I just see that the religious right and right-wingers in general (thanks caela for pointing out that they are not always the same) seems to be more AGAINST things than liberals do. They seem to be more willing to deny rights than to grant them. Any rights, I'm not just talking gay marriage or abortion. They think people who are different are bad or evil. Liberals just seem more accepting to me. Liberals don't tell people they should go change their lives as often as conservatives do.

I don't know. It seems like a few people here see what I'm talking about, but I'm having a hard time articulating for those who disagree. I just see so much hate from the right wing and it makes me so sad. The piece on Bill Moyers Journal was just depressing. I felt so confused when I saw it. Why do these people hate us? That's what I feel.

CM, I think you are a very unusual conservative, actually.

I will give you that...I do think that Liberals are perceived as being more open to going against what is "socially acceptable".

However I don't think conservatives like CM are really all that rare. (I tend to lean conservative and find myself in the much the same boat as CM)

I know many out there who are like me. However, I don't think you hear as often about them because it wouldn't be nearly as interesting to publicize the beliefs of a politician, political commentator, etc. if it didn't offend half of the country.

I do understand what you are saying about your uncle though. I came from a strict Christian family...Church of Christ (That's the one where the minister's wife shot her husband in the back .) Truth be told I still identify myself as a member of the church though my lifestyle choices would not be tolerated at all.

This has been a constant source of conflict in my life. Especially when it comes to my fellow Christians bad mouthing gays. My best friend David grew up in the church with me. He came out when he was fifteen. He was so harshly persecuted by the people who should have had the most love for him. He ended killing himself within a month of coming out. I stopped going to church shortly after that.

The realization that hits me though is that these people are human...they judge just as we all do. They believe they know what is right and wrong just as we all do. They stick to their convictions just as strongly as we do. Perhaps that's why we who are different from them consider them hateful...but I think if I went to talk to people from the church I grew up in they would perceive me much the same way.

In the end I have come to terms. The Bible doesn't give degrees of sin...that is a human adage. It doesn't say that being gay is any worse that sister Mary gossiping about brother so and so having an affair with the minister's wife. The sad thing is that I think most Christians don't realize this.

ETA I just want to make you all aware I have no problems with people being gay...in case it came out that way.

 

[caela]

O.k. I think I have a better grasp of the people you're talking about more now and I think it still actually does come out pretty evenly numbers-wise but that the hatred and intolerance you're talking about from the (mostly) religious right is just more blatant that what comes from the left. The religious right is pretty outspoken about what they think is right and wrong and they do vilify(sp) what they think of as wrong or "immoral" but the left does it as well. It's the expression of that hatred that differs.

Around here (can't speak for anywhere else lol) you have to look to see it but that same level of hatred and contempt is there on the left, they simply try and hide it behind being "tolerant" but what that really means for them is looking down on those whose beliefs are different from their own as if they also have no sins or are somehow better people than those they despise. They often speak of those they perceive to be on the right with the same level of disdain as the right speaks of them. They aren't extremists, they aren't whackjobs ranting from a pulpit or microphone but they are just as convinced of their moral superiority and "rightness" as the religious right are.

Just my experience and 0.02$ worth.

 

[fishercat]

My experience on this topic is that the amount of outspoken criticism, negativity and hate is proportional to the percentage of the local population that agrees. When I lived in a very liberal town in a very liberal state, I ran into some very hateful liberals. I now live in a very conservative town in a very conservative state, and there are plenty of hateful conservatives.

The only difference I've seen is that the conservative statements are often condemning individuals and their personal lifestyle choices, (abortion, homosexuality), whereas the liberals are condemning people for their community lifestyle choices (environmental stuff, conspicuous consumption).

The extremists will spout off no matter how few agree. The run of the mill person will spout off only when there's a good chance most of the people around them will agree.

 

[Etoile]

A question pertaining to the Bill Moyers piece...has anybody ever seen liberals preach violence in the way the talkers portrayed on Bill Moyers do? Sure, give somebody a microphone and they'll say all kinds of stuff. But the UU church attack was somebody who believed what he was told. The right-wing talkers Bill Moyers showed preach violence against people. Do liberals do that?

I'm learning more about life with every post on this thread.

 

[Lamont Cranston]

O.k. I think I have a better grasp of the people you're talking about more now and I think it still actually does come out pretty evenly numbers-wise but that the hatred and intolerance you're talking about from the (mostly) religious right is just more blatant that what comes from the left. The religious right is pretty outspoken about what they think is right and wrong and they do vilify(sp) what they think of as wrong or "immoral" but the left does it as well. It's the expression of that hatred that differs.

Around here (can't speak for anywhere else lol) you have to look to see it but that same level of hatred and contempt is there on the left, they simply try and hide it behind being "tolerant" but what that really means for them is looking down on those whose beliefs are different from their own as if they also have no sins or are somehow better people than those they despise. They often speak of those they perceive to be on the right with the same level of disdain as the right speaks of them. They aren't extremists, they aren't whackjobs ranting from a pulpit or microphone but they are just as convinced of their moral superiority and "rightness" as the religious right are.

Just my experience and 0.02$ worth.

Excellent points. And it goes beyond Christianity. And good debate and disagreement are healthy as long as they stay intellectual. The more we can discuss and debate the more we have a chance of solving.
LC

 

[FFOTS4Life]

A question pertaining to the Bill Moyers piece...has anybody ever seen liberals preach violence in the way the talkers portrayed on Bill Moyers do? Sure, give somebody a microphone and they'll say all kinds of stuff. But the UU church attack was somebody who believed what he was told. The right-wing talkers Bill Moyers showed preach violence against people. Do liberals do that?

I'm learning more about life with every post on this thread.

What about the extreme environmental groups that blow up factories, other places of business, etc.?

 

[caela]

Excellent points. And it goes beyond Christianity. And good debate and disagreement are healthy as long as they stay intellectual. The more we can discuss and debate the more we have a chance of solving.
LC

Agreed. The key there though is to discuss and debate. A lot of people, on both sides, just seem to like to try to talk over each other without even realizing they are doing it.

 

[Lamont Cranston]

A question pertaining to the Bill Moyers piece...has anybody ever seen liberals preach violence in the way the talkers portrayed on Bill Moyers do? Sure, give somebody a microphone and they'll say all kinds of stuff. But the UU church attack was somebody who believed what he was told. The right-wing talkers Bill Moyers showed preach violence against people. Do liberals do that?

I'm learning more about life with every post on this thread.

Unfortunately the one that comes to mind first would be from the campaigns and it would have come from a church. My other examples would probably be Islamic.

 

[Etoile]

What about the extreme environmental groups that blow up factories, other places of business, etc.?

And animal activists with research facilities I guess.

I don't know why they do that.

I think they are the most extreme of the extremists, though. I would say that those people are even more cracked up than Mike Savage, who at least stays in his easy chair all the time. Liberal or conservative, if you're blowing shit up, you're fucking whacked in the head. IMHO. I think.