Rep. Lynn Westmoreland (R-GA) Forgets The Talking Points

[isthisdesire]

I have never in all my life ever heard anyone call a black person a redneck.

you'll live.

 

[Recidiva]

I'll answer by asking a question: Why aren't they just called "trash"?

Then I'll answer your inability to answer by asking another question: Why does it include the term "white" and how is that somehow a reflection on black people?

How is Le Jackelope here calling me "white trash" somehow a backhanded insult to black people?

 

[Sonny Limatina]

It's an insult. It's just not inherently racist.

As phrased, this is true. But it leaves out history and context. "Cheap," for example, is also inherently unbiased. But when it's used for jews, it becomes freighted with history and intention. And if it's used mostly for jews, or for Jew A who acts in no way different from Cheap non-Jew B, it does take on an additional color.

So your sentence is true, but inaccurate--and possibly disingenuous, although this I do not know.

 

[Recidiva]

As phrased, this is true. But it leaves out history and context. "Cheap," for example, is also inherently unbiased. But when it's used for jews, it becomes freighted with history and intention. And if it's used mostly for jews, or for Jew A who acts in no way different from Cheap non-Jew B, it does take on an additional color.

So your sentence is true, but inaccurate--and possibly disingenuous, although this I do not know.

So when it's linked with racist terms it's a racist insult.

Here it's liked with class terms, it's a classist insult.

It's an adjective.

 

[Sonny Limatina]

Then I'll answer your inability to answer by asking another question: Why does it include the term "white" and how is that somehow a reflection on black people?

How is Le Jackelope here calling me "white trash" somehow a backhanded insult to black people?

Well, "white trash," unlike uppity, has lost most of its original context. The implication of the term is that trash isn't usually white. That it's white people acting like the lowly negro. It's become much more divorced from that implication over time, but that is its original implication.

"Uppity," on the other hand, still has its sting. As I say, if you think it doesn't, walk into a room of black business people and whip that little word out, then see if you're greeted by shrugs and chuckles.

 

[isthisdesire]

So when it's linked with racist terms it's a racist insult.

Here it's liked with class terms, it's a classist insult.

It's an adjective.

when you're talking about a black person and you describe them as "uppity," it takes on a racial tinge.

just like when you describe a Jewish person as "cheap."

it's pretty clear.

 

[Sonny Limatina]

So when it's linked with racist terms it's a racist insult.

Here it's liked with class terms, it's a classist insult.

It's an adjective.

Again, you're divorcing mere the fact of it being a word from its ability to inflict damage to a certain group of people. ""Lazy," "shiftless" and "savage" are also just adjectives. Would you argue that they're unfreighted as well?

 

[Recidiva]

Well, "white trash," unlike uppity, has lost most of its original context. The implication of the term is that trash isn't usually white. That it's white people acting like the lowly negro. It's become much more divorced from that implication over time, but that is its original implication.

"Uppity," on the other hand, still has its sting. As I say, if you think it doesn't, walk into a room of black business people and whip that little word out, then see if you're greeted by shrugs and chuckles.

Oh man.

Well, good luck with that argument.

Using the word in context with a real definition doesn't at all mean that if you use that word out of context in an entirely different situation, you're right.

Any more than on Project Runway if someone calls someone outfit "cheap" they're saying they're jewish and they hate them. Heidi Klum is a Nazi!

 

[Recidiva]

when you're talking about a black person and you describe them as "uppity," it takes on a racial tinge.

just like when you describe a Jewish person as "cheap."

it's pretty clear.

I take word definitions and context seriously and allow people to use optional meanings.

Not just the most insulting or inflammatory. In context, it's a class statement.

The fact that it's just dumbass bad judgment is not something I'm going to disagree with. But I am not leaping to racism. Just the guy being not too bright.

 

[Sonny Limatina]

Oh man.

Well, good luck with that argument.

Using the word in context with a real definition doesn't at all mean that if you use that word out of context in an entirely different situation, you're right.

Any more than on Project Runway if someone calls someone outfit "cheap" they're saying they're jewish and they hate them. Heidi Klum is a Nazi!

He wasn't calling an outfit cheap. He was calling a black man and woman "uppity." Maybe, maybe maybe, he truly meant that in this case, it's just a class thing. But again, Biden is dirt poor and always has been. The Obamas are ivy educated lawyers and professors. It's a little hard to make the argument that they're playing above their head--and that Biden, for example, is not.

 

[commonfreeman]

you'll live.

And maybe you will grow up one day.

 

[Recidiva]

He wasn't calling an outfit cheap. He was calling a black man and woman "uppity." Maybe, maybe maybe, he truly meant that in this case, it's just a class thing. But again, Biden is dirt poor and always has been. The Obamas are ivy educated lawyers and professors. It's a little hard to make the argument that they're playing above their head--and that Biden, for example, is not.

Okay. That's my opinion. If you look at the sentence, it has a descriptor that is accompanied by other words that make it an entirely class-based comment.

I don't care to speculate on what's going on in the idiot's head other than what he actually said. Which was bad enough, but not racist.

Given a chance to really clarify I'm sure he'll screw himself up further. I look forward to it.

 

[isthisdesire]

And maybe you will grow up one day.

yes, clearly because I've heard people of all races referred to as "rednecks," I'm but a child.

in the south, it's more of a class thing. google Jeff Foxworthy or some shit. I don't have time to break it down for you.

 

[Wrong Element]

There's a reason Clarence Thomas, also from Georgia, referred to his confirmation hearing as "a high-tech lynching for uppity blacks"--it's a word and a sentiment he must have known well.

When a white Southerner calls a black person uppity, there are a few centuries of baggage there. The term rarely used these days unless you're a complete idiot as Westmoreland seems to be, because the associations are so obvious.

 

[isthisdesire]

Okay. That's my opinion. If you look at the sentence, it has a descriptor that is accompanied by other words that make it an entirely class-based comment.

I don't care to speculate on what's going on in the idiot's head other than what he actually said. Which was bad enough, but not racist.

Given a chance to really clarify I'm sure he'll screw himself up further. I look forward to it.

if you're not going to speculate what was going on in his head, how do you know it wasn't a racial thing? you're speculating that it wasn't.

 

[RoryN]

Sorry - there's no argument to be made re: this not being a racist comment in the context in which it was uttered.

I come from a family where my father, who was black, lived in affluent black neighborhoods in Chicago and elsewhere. "Uppity" was an extremely common adjective used by racists to describe minorities whom they felt had overstepped their bounds through finance or other means. And it was often used without "nigger" afterwards in polite company, especially after the phrase became popular enough for people to understand the inference. "Nigger" was always implied.

You can argue that he's ignorant of the history of the term. But I'm not, and neither was whoever asked him to clarify the comment.

 

[Guest]

since when is "uppity" racially tinged?

Since the phrase "uppity nigger" became a classic turn of phrase all throughout the middle portion of the 20th century. "Uppity" came to refer to a black person who didn't "know their role."

 

[isthisdesire]

You can argue that he's ignorant of the history of the term.

I don't even think you can do that.

 

[Sonny Limatina]

if you're not going to speculate what was going on in his head, how do you know it wasn't a racial thing? you're speculating that it wasn't.

Well said!

 

[RoryN]

I don't even think you can do that.

Neither do I. I didn't mean one could argue it successfully - I should've made that clearer.

 

[Recidiva]

if you're not going to speculate what was going on in his head, how do you know it wasn't a racial thing? you're speculating that it wasn't.

Because of grammar and sentence composition.

That saves me from being psychic and wrong. Because the assumption is that a spokesperson for a political party is not out to make a racist comment on air. That didn't keep him from being a dumbass, but I can see it as "on talking point" because "uppity" has actually more to do with the Republican talking point of Obama's lack of experience.

That it's not the best choice of words, fine. But I'm not going to leap to a certain conclusion that is not borne out by the party, social situation and purpose of this gentleman. Or his words.

I think he had a poor choice of words, but that the poor choice of words in his socioeconomic standing is synonomous with "low class" and "inexperienced" and not anything racist.

Otherwise I'd have to make the leap of logic to think this is just a racist dickhead who is being passive-aggressive instead of just ignorant. And I think the ignorant is more likely in this case.

Yes, ignorant can also be considered a racist term. Here, however, I'm using it to describe a specific person.

I think this an excuse for outrage and more political bullshit that can be easily explained by someone being slightly dumb and clueless, and not a racist mastermind.

 

[isthisdesire]

Neither do I. I didn't mean one could argue it successfully - I should've made that clearer.

indeed.

your dad was black? you're mixed?

 

[commonfreeman]

yes, clearly because I've heard people of all races referred to as "rednecks," I'm but a child.

in the south, it's more of a class thing. google Jeff Foxworthy or some shit. I don't have time to break it down for you.

And almost all black comedians use the N word. It still does not make it right. Using racial terms breeds racism, does not matter who is saying it.

 

[isthisdesire]

Because of grammar and sentence composition.

That saves me from being psychic and wrong. Because the assumption is that a spokesperson for a political party is not out to make a racist comment on air. That didn't keep him from being a dumbass, but I can see it as "on talking point" because "uppity" has actually more to do with the Republican talking point of Obama's lack of experience.

That it's not the best choice of words, fine. But I'm not going to leap to a certain conclusion that is not borne out by the party, social situation and purpose of this gentleman. Or his words.

I think he had a poor choice of words, but that the poor choice of words in his socioeconomic standing is synonomous with "low class" and "inexperienced" and not anything racist.

Otherwise I'd have to make the leap of logic to think this is just a racist dickhead who is being passive-aggressive instead of just ignorant. And I think the ignorant is more likely in this case.

Yes, ignorant can also be considered a racist term. Here, however, I'm using it to describe a specific person.

I think this an excuse for outrage and more political bullshit that can be easily explained by someone being slightly dumb and clueless, and not a racist mastermind.

then don't say you're not going to speculate or that you're "not going to leap to a certain conclusion" because that's exactly what you're doing. if not, you'd say you didn't know if it was a racist remark or not. THAT would be reserving judgment. that's not what you're doing.

 

[Aliea]

Personally, I think he was being racist. This is from my personal experience and my own opinion, but uppity to me means Uppity Negro. I have never heard it applied to a white man. Valid points made here about Biden. Why isn't he uppity?

But since it's not a blatant racist comment, he should probably be given the benefit of the doubt by the general media. Everyone else can draw their own conclusions.