Proposal to "The Poets"

Safe_Bet

No she's not back I'm Amy
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Aug 6, 2008
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Okay, GREAT Poets,

I want to proposition you… erm, maybe what I mean is make a proposal.

I’d like to have you give some “classes” (including “homework”) on the different forms of poems. I think that those of you that “can” could greatly increase the comfort level for those of us who “want to”.

Each of you has poetry forms in which you are “most skilled.” For example, I have never written a Villanelle. I have read HOW to write them, like them when I read them, but am terrified of trying one. I don’t “get” the rhyming scheme or the meter. The likelihood of my creating a Villanelle, within this forum – knowing that, for example a certain "Villanelle Slut” and others skilled in this form will help me, would be a tremendous encouragement. The same holds true for most other poetry forms, be they sonnets, Haiku, Ghazal, etc.

So here’s my proposal: Create a Poetry 101 thread. Every week, a different form is discussed by the “Experts” (figuring on at least two - three different people's 'expert' postings on each form) and the “students" then write their piece. Multiple parties critique each of these and we all can learn from each other’s mistakes and successes. The following week, this would be repeated with a different poetry form. It should also be easier to keep structured, because you will be “instructing” on form and meter, not critiquing the actual content.

I personally would find this less intimidating that submitting a specific poem for critique to the Poetry Discussion Circle (sort of like enjoying an orgy more than a gang bang - you still get screwed a lot, but you aren't the only 'target'!)

Even if we were to stick to the most basic forms this would be a long-term endeavor, but I think that it would help create a richer, more diverse base of poetry.

So what cha think GREAT poets?




(This is the implied threat! Do it or I will write absolutely horribly bad Villanelle’s until you are all insane!)
 
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Poetry

Ya mean people would actually teach me to write poetry? Then I could be a poet. I've never been a poet before, count me in.
 
LOL I sincerely think that "Villanelle Slut" is the nicest nickname I ever had. LOL Thank you, WickedEve.

I think that's a wonderful idea, SB. I'm a bit swamped right now with my art show tonight and my next art show on the first Friday in October. Plus, I'm taking a rather demanding psychology class for the next 5 weeks. I'd be happy to participate as I can for now. I hardly consider myself a villanelle expert, but I would be wiling to share my take on the form after the first week in October.

-Sheila
 
LOL I sincerely think that "Villanelle Slut" is the nicest nickname I ever had. LOL Thank you, WickedEve.
If you're going to be a slut, then be a slut for poetry. ;)

My form of choice is the terzanelle. I've been using that form since 2002. I'd be happy to share whatever I know.
 
If you're going to be a slut, then be a slut for poetry. ;)

My form of choice is the terzanelle. I've been using that form since 2002. I'd be happy to share whatever I know.

So now the truth comes out: you're a "Terzanelle Trollop!" Whoo Hoo!

Wanna start next week?


P.S. Think we can round up a Sonnet Skank, Haiku Hoochie Mama, Tanka Tramp or a Ballade Bitch?
 
So now the truth comes out: you're a "Terzanelle Trollop!" Whoo Hoo!

Wanna start next week?


P.S. Think we can round up a Sonnet Skank, Haiku Hoochie Mama, Tanka Tramp or a Ballade Bitch?
All this talk of whores and tramps and hoochie mamas, well, it's the kind of language I understand.
I actually took two years of Early Childhood Ed in college and decided that being a teacher would totally suck. So, if I do an instructional thread on this it will be on the level of Terzanelles for Dummies.
 
All this talk of whores and tramps and hoochie mamas, well, it's the kind of language I understand.
I actually took two years of Early Childhood Ed in college and decided that being a teacher would totally suck. So, if I do an instructional thread on this it will be on the level of Terzanelles for Dummies.

And I'd be the first dummy to sign up. LOL
 
This idea sounds good. Give me a week for ghazals. I'm no expert but I did a fair bit of research to write the couple of examples of the form I've attempted.

Ghazals for Gitchie Ho's...
 


Wanna start next week?

I should be able to post something next week. It's really pretty simple to find info online for how to write a terzanelle or any form, but I what I'll try to do is describe how I write one. Anyone who participates in the terzanelle thread will be required to wear underpants on their head. It really helps you focus.
 
"Form poem" is like a candy wrap with something brownish inside. It may be a chocolate morsel or, more often than not, it is something else.
 
I should be able to post something next week. It's really pretty simple to find info online for how to write a terzanelle or any form, but I what I'll try to do is describe how I write one. Anyone who participates in the terzanelle thread will be required to wear underpants on their head. It really helps you focus.
I'll wear the pannies. I hope I don't need to sneeze while I do ... ick!
 
I think that this is a wonderful idea and I would love to learn more about poetic forms in a more personal and less technical way, so I would definitely like to participate in a Poetry Feedback and Discussion Poetic Form Master Class.

I could probably offer something on East Asian forms, too.


"Form poem" is like a candy wrap with something brownish inside. It may be a chocolate morsel or, more often than not, it is something else.

As opposed to?
 
S_B, I apologize for not responding sooner, but I don't necessarily consider myself a "Great" poet (aside from occasional flights of delusion), so I wasn't quite sure how to respond. I'm happy to see the thread though because I think writing in forms (as opposed to free verse, which arguably is also a "form") can help tone up one's writing skill. I also agree with Senna though that adhering to form rules can produce uh brown writing. But not always. In fact, I think the best form poems are the ones where the writing is so good that you don't really notice the form.

I have a copy of Lewis Turco's The Book of Forms, which is a great resource. I'd be happy to share info from it on whichever forms people want though I'll leave the Asian forms to Equinoxe and others who excel at them (I don't). Just schedule me for at least three weeks from now cause I just committed to a huge editing job that is arriving on my doorstep tomorrow. :)
 
I'm happy to see the thread though because I think writing in forms (as opposed to free verse, which arguably is also a "form") can help tone up one's writing skill. I also agree with Senna though that adhering to form rules can produce uh brown writing. But not always. In fact, I think the best form poems are the ones where the writing is so good that you don't really notice the form.

I think that form in poetry provides a structure and a central unifying element which has to be part of the poem's strength: a form poem has to make use of the form in such a way that the form becomes part of its meaning. This is actually every bit as as true in free verse poetry—the structure and organisation of a free verse poem must be to the advantage of its expression: where a line breaks, the relative length of lines, the repetition of thoughts, the repetition of sounds, the visual element of the poem, etc. all should be to the benefit of the poem. While it is true that a form poem written solely to satisfy the form will rarely be good, it would rarely be better as a free verse poem.

To borrow and extend Senna's simile: the difference is that non-form poems don't have a wrapper, not that they're more likely to be chocolate.
 
S_B, I apologize for not responding sooner, but I don't necessarily consider myself a "Great" poet (aside from occasional flights of delusion), so I wasn't quite sure how to respond. I'm happy to see the thread though because I think writing in forms (as opposed to free verse, which arguably is also a "form") can help tone up one's writing skill. I also agree with Senna though that adhering to form rules can produce uh brown writing. But not always. In fact, I think the best form poems are the ones where the writing is so good that you don't really notice the form.

I have a copy of Lewis Turco's The Book of Forms, which is a great resource. I'd be happy to share info from it on whichever forms people want though I'll leave the Asian forms to Equinoxe and others who excel at them (I don't). Just schedule me for at least three weeks from now cause I just committed to a huge editing job that is arriving on my doorstep tomorrow. :)
Well, you're good with the villanelle, sestina, terzanelle, etc. Before I mentioned offering any advice on the terzanelle, I though of you. You've written far better form poetry, especially my favorite form. I remember one terzanelle you wrote that was particularly good. Maybe you want to do the terzanelle thread or help? I'm not very good at teaching anyone anything. I just do things in my own weird way. lol
 
S_B, I apologize for not responding sooner, but I don't necessarily consider myself a "Great" poet (aside from occasional flights of delusion)

You don't have to; the rest of us "consider you that" for you!


Every week, a different form is discussed by the “Experts” (figuring on at least two - three different people's 'expert' postings on each form)

Well, you're good with the villanelle, sestina, terzanelle, etc. Before I mentioned offering any advice on the terzanelle, I though of you. You've written far better form poetry, especially my favorite form. I remember one terzanelle you wrote that was particularly good. Maybe you want to do the terzanelle thread or help? I'm not very good at teaching anyone anything. I just do things in my own weird way. lol

There are too many of you that excel at a given form. Personally, I think that's fantastic. Even if you both make the exact same point, you will make it differently. Some of us "pigmentally impaired" individuals need that (WHAT? am I the only REAL blonde here ? geeze...)

Of course (muahahaha), that DOES mean that you will both cover a couple different forms??????
 
Well, you're good with the villanelle, sestina, terzanelle, etc. Before I mentioned offering any advice on the terzanelle, I though of you. You've written far better form poetry, especially my favorite form. I remember one terzanelle you wrote that was particularly good. Maybe you want to do the terzanelle thread or help? I'm not very good at teaching anyone anything. I just do things in my own weird way. lol

You taught me how to do terzanelles! And I happen to think yours are better than mine, so there you go lol. But I think we should all contribute. Why just have one teacher if more than one of us has written the form, you know? I think Fooly should teach the sonnet though. Heeheehee.

There are a lot of good form poetry writers here. That shy table thingy is very good. So is Kaishaku with Eastern forms. And if Judo were around she'd be a great form teacher.

You don't have to; the rest of us "consider you that" for you!








There are too many of you that excel at a given form. Personally, I think that's fantastic. Even if you both make the exact same point, you will make it differently. Some of us "pigmentally impaired" individuals need that (WHAT? am I the only REAL blonde here ? geeze...)

Of course (muahahaha), that DOES mean that you will both cover a couple different forms??????

Aw shucks.
 
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I think that each person who wants to "teach" a given form could take their week and begin a thread, first defining and discussing the formula, secondly explaining how they work within the form to develop a poem, and third, provide what they feel are good examples of the form at work.

The "students" of each master's lecture class are going to be responsible for intelligent questions regarding adaptations of the form, putting their newly acquired knowledge to use by creating a poem using the formula, aiding the other members of the "class" in developing the formula and techniques discussed through constructive critique, and finally, having fun.

In this situation I feel the heavier responsibility needs to be on the shoulders of those who want to learn from these discussions. Only a few people here are practiced teachers so for anyone to presume any one of the "masters" are good instructors is taking an awful lot for granted. The key point to remember as the series takes shape, would be to treat each thread starter as if they are guest lecturers, not professors. It will be up to the "students" to create a study circle around the material given in the lecture.

If I'm off the wall, make sure you brush the velcro and restick me... thx.
 
I think that each person who wants to "teach" a given form could take their week and begin a thread, first defining and discussing the formula, secondly explaining how they work within the form to develop a poem, and third, provide what they feel are good examples of the form at work.

The "students" of each master's lecture class are going to be responsible for intelligent questions regarding adaptations of the form, putting their newly acquired knowledge to use by creating a poem using the formula, aiding the other members of the "class" in developing the formula and techniques discussed through constructive critique, and finally, having fun.

In this situation I feel the heavier responsibility needs to be on the shoulders of those who want to learn from these discussions. Only a few people here are practiced teachers so for anyone to presume any one of the "masters" are good instructors is taking an awful lot for granted. The key point to remember as the series takes shape, would be to treat each thread starter as if they are guest lecturers, not professors. It will be up to the "students" to create a study circle around the material given in the lecture.

If I'm off the wall, make sure you brush the velcro and restick me... thx.
Reading this, I know what I'd offer probably wouldn't be up to standards. Seriously, I can only tell you what works for me and how I approach poetry, forms, etc. I'd like someone else to start the terzanelle thread, and I'll just add in all my tips. I've already taken notes and filled up one word doc page. :D Oh, god, a little while ago I even wrote a terzanelle about terzanelles! I'm happy to be a teacher's assistant, though.
 
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