The Hook

[Corylea]

This discussion reminds me of a discussion I had with a fellow intern when we were both in training to become therapists. We had rather different theoretical orientations, and I was astonished and appalled when she said, "I know how to hook the client, but I'm still working on the next part."

I asked her what she meant by "hooking" the client, and she said, "You know, where you listen to them and let them know that you understand what they're saying and you care about what they're saying." Ah. It would never occur to me to call that "hooking" the client -- I thought that listening, understanding, and caring was just called good therapy.

I guess I also think that making a story interesting enough that people want to keep reading is just called good writing.

 

[Belegon]

Hallelujah! I got tag teamed recently here pretty nastily for trying to point out the same thing.

Let's not start that idiocy again, shall we?

Arguing over the definition of a term is what that was. Call it a first line. Who cares? Calling it a first line or a hook doesn't change the discussion in the slightest.

My usage was the same as those of the professors. Yours was the same as Docs. So what? Let's get past the "I'm right and my ego demands I defend my POV" stuff and not drag this thread down, okay?

 

[Stella_Omega]

My fav first line of all time?

"In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit."

So what the hell is a hobbit and why does he live in a hole? I wanted to read more...and did.

I was unimpressed with the second line, though, I have to say. I ended up skipping through the book to see if it were worth slogging through those early chapters, and, of course, it was.

 

[SweetWitch]

Let's not start that idiocy again, shall we?

Arguing over the definition of a term is what that was. Call it a first line. Who cares? Calling it a first line or a hook doesn't change the discussion in the slightest.

My usage was the same as those of the professors. Yours was the same as Docs. So what? Let's get past the "I'm right and my ego demands I defend my POV" stuff and not drag this thread down, okay?

Dammit! I started this thread as a change of pace from all the politcal, catty, or angry threads. It was meant for FRIENDLY discussion, not a chance to get all worked up over crap that happened in the past about stuff that no one else cares about.

Bel is absolutely right. Don't try to use it as a forum to air your personal grievences.

Can't we have an intelligent discussion around here without all this nonsense?

 

[sr71plt]

Let's not start that idiocy again, shall we?

Arguing over the definition of a term is what that was. Call it a first line. Who cares? Calling it a first line or a hook doesn't change the discussion in the slightest.

My usage was the same as those of the professors. Yours was the same as Docs. So what? Let's get past the "I'm right and my ego demands I defend my POV" stuff and not drag this thread down, okay?

But then, I sort of doubt that this was how the professors put it either--because the distinction is not exactly rocket science in university-level creative writing programs, toots.

 

[TE999]

Dammit! I started this thread as a change of pace from all the politcal, catty, or angry threads. It was meant for FRIENDLY discussion, not a chance to get all worked up over crap that happened in the past about stuff that no one else cares about.

Bel is absolutely right. Don't try to use it as a forum to air your personal grievences.

Can't we have an intelligent discussion around here without all this nonsense?

Evidently not.

Those noises you hear are axes grinding.

 

[sr71plt]

Those noises you hear are axes grinding.

Both sides of the ax, of course.

 

[TE999]

Both sides of the ax, of course.

Or both sides axes as the case may be.

 

[sr71plt]

Or both sides axes as the case may be.

indubitably.

 

[CWatson]

"As Gregor Samsa awoke one morning from uneasy dreams he found himself transformed in his bed into a gigantic insect."

THAT isn't the play we're looking for! It's too good!

 

[Belegon]

My axe isn't needing any more grinding. I gave my opinion of what I want to happen going forward in this thread and that is the absolute last thing I will say on the subject.

 

[Corylea]

Dammit! I started this thread as a change of pace from all the politcal, catty, or angry threads.

Thank you! I, for one, really appreciate it. I also thought it was fun to talk about writing for a change -- a strange thing to talk about in the Authors' Hangout, I know.

 

[CWatson]

I haven't read it, but the reviewer makes it sound worth reading.

Which? The autobio, or Flowers for Algernon? Because Flowers is an extraordinary story. Go to your library right now and grab it.

 

[Corylea]

Which? The autobio, or Flowers for Algernon? Because Flowers is an extraordinary story. Go to your library right now and grab it.

The review was of the autobiography, so of course I was talking about the autobiography.

Yes, I've read Flowers, and I agree that it's extraordinary.

 

[Belegon]

Thank you! I, for one, really appreciate it. I also thought it was fun to talk about writing for a change -- a strange thing to talk about in the Authors' Hangout, I know.

I've been enjoying this... and I intend to continue doing so. To hopefully get some momentum in the right direction, here is an old beginning and a new beginning to one of my WIP's...

Old: Lynn looked around her little country kitchen one last time.

New: The door slammed open hard enough that she thought the hinges might fail and in stepped the last person in the world she wanted to see.

So, do you feel it's better? Does it make a difference at all? Do you actually like the old one?

ETA: And how many think that limiting it to one single line is just too restricting? Should we look at first paragraphs?

I do think that it is entirely possible to get to the point where you obsess about the first line. If the first line rocks and the rest of the first page sucks... no one will read page two. If you rewrite your beginning over and over again... when will you write your middle and end?

 

[Corylea]

Old: Lynn looked around her little country kitchen one last time.

New: The door slammed open hard enough that she thought the hinges might fail and in stepped the last person in the world she wanted to see.

So, do you feel it's better? Does it make a difference at all? Do you actually like the old one?

Actually, I think there's a case to be made for either of them. The new one certainly starts with a bang, but that means that it sets a particular tone, the tone of an action-movie sort of story. The old one is less grabby, but it does tell us who and where, and it sets a different sort of tone. I think that if you set up expectations in the reader that are unmet, they'll be disappointed in your story, no matter how good it is.*

So I think which first line is better depends on what kind of story you're writing. If you start with an action-movie line and then lead us into a sweet little comedy of manners, it'll sound weird. If you start with an ease-the-reader-in-gently line and then have six gruesome murders on page two, the reader of cozies will be unhappy.

So I'd say which is the better line depends on your story -- which line fits your story?


*My husband and I call this "Riddlemaster of Hed Syndrome" after a fantasy trilogy we both read where all of books one and two and three-quarters of book three said "Something really, really, REALLY cool is going to happen any minute," and then at the end of book three something sorta cool happened. The build-up had been so great that essentially NO ending could have lived up to it, and it made the novels unsatisfying, even though they were reasonably good fantasy novels by other criteria. If there's an Official Literary Term for this, I'd love to know what it is. If there isn't, well, I make you a present of Riddlemaster of Hed Syndrome.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I'm with 3113, each beginning sets up a different expectation.

I do not count on the first sentence alone to hook a reader, for me it's the first, say.. three paragraphs or so.

Which is why "In a hole in the ground..." wasn't enough...

 

[Belegon]

So I'd say which is the better line depends on your story -- which line fits your story?

...and that actually plays well into why I made the change. The story is one that builds. There is a gradual increase of "what the fuck is going on here?" atmosphere.

My worry is that people will be so bored by the slow build that they will never get to the more exciting part. So I created a prologue that hinted at what was to come later.

I still need the slow build to get people to see the character relationships. But I also want readers to stick with it.

Some would say this is best accomplished with a blurb. Part of me agrees with that. The dilemma? How to get the story sold and get to the point where a blurb is being written.

Truthfully, at this point just getting it sold is less of a struggle than it originally was. I've built up enough of a rep and enough recognition in certain places that most of the people I would market to are not going to put my work down right away. They will keep going long enough to give it a real chance.

But if I want to stretch my wings, into markets where I'm not known yet? That's different.

My awards and nominations and reviews don't mean as much to Random House as they would to Samhain. Just to pull some names out, not to say that either of those are my chosen market for this novel.

 

[Corylea]

I'm with 3113, each beginning sets up a different expectation.

*looks around room* *checks under chair* *checks behind curtains* Huh. I'm alone here, so I guess I must be 3113 -- I wonder why no one ever told me.

...and that actually plays well into why I made the change. The story is one that builds. There is a gradual increase of "what the fuck is going on here?" atmosphere.

My worry is that people will be so bored by the slow build that they will never get to the more exciting part. So I created a prologue that hinted at what was to come later.

I still need the slow build to get people to see the character relationships. But I also want readers to stick with it.

Some would say this is best accomplished with a blurb. Part of me agrees with that. The dilemma? How to get the story sold and get to the point where a blurb is being written.

Well, a prologue is a blurb that's part of the story , so it should still work.

Good luck with it!

 

[Stella_Omega]

*looks around room* *checks under chair* *checks behind curtains* Huh. I'm alone here, so I guess I must be 3113 -- I wonder why no one ever told me.

You have similar taste in avs...

And similar opinions in matters literary!

 

[Belegon]

You have similar taste in avs...

And similar opinions in matters literary!

...and, speaking as one of the few on this board that have met both Stella and 3113, let me assure Corylea that the confusion is a compliment.

 

[DeeZire]

Here's an opening line from my fave mainstream author, Stacy Richter.

Sometimes I feel like the punch line to a Cathy cartoon: a pair of stumpy arms flap by my sides and the balloon says, "How far does a girl have to go to meet a nice guy!!?"

 

[impressive]

Two of my college professors once argued and debated this topic. They took the argument to the classes. I was in both classes that these professors chose to air this particular argument.

One believed the hook was in the first paragraph of the literary work. One contended it was the first sentence, even the first word, that drew in the reader.

In my opinion, one of your professors was using the definition of a literary scholar whereas the other was using the definition of a literary agent.

While those of us in the AH may have aspirations for our work to eventually be studied as a classic and thereby subject to such scholarly scrutiny, I think it safe to say that our more immediate concern is to sell the work.

To that end, a hook is what the consumer of said work SAYS it is. They get to define it 'cause they're the ones who are being hooked.

Once the book is on the market, readers & critics will assess the hook by their own standards.

Then, maybe, it will attract the attention of the scholars (whose shit doesn't stink).

I get lazy with hooks because most of my work is sold before I write it. My partner is more focused (and talented) when it comes to opening sentence hooks.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

This debate over sentence vs paragraph is silly. A hook is a marketing tool designed to keep the potential reader's interest. The words are what counts, not how they're arranged.

To quote from that semi-brilliant bit of Lit wisdon, How To Be A Happy Hooker, http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=311940 by humble, modest, little ol' moi,

The mission of those first few words at the beginning of your story is to intrigue--not inform--your readers and keep them reading.

Here are two examples of why sentence vs paragraph is a pointless fuss. Both are long, single-sentence paragraphs by great writers.


If you really want to hear about it, the first thing you'll probably want to know is where I was born, and what my lousy childhood was like, and how my parents were occupied and all before they had me, and all that David Copperfield kind of crap, but I don't feel like going into it, if you want to know the truth.

The Catcher in the Rye, J.D. Salinger

--

FRANCIS MARION TARWATER'S uncle had been dead for only half-a-day when the boy got too drunk to finish digging his grave and a Negro named Buford Munson, who had come to get a jug filled, had to finish it and drag the body from the breakfast table where it was still sitting and bury it in a decent and Christian way, with the sign of its Saviour at the head of the grave and enough dirt on top to keep the dogs from digging it up.

The Violent Bear It Away, Flannery O’Connor


Rumple Foreskin

 

[SweetWitch]

I've been enjoying this... and I intend to continue doing so. To hopefully get some momentum in the right direction, here is an old beginning and a new beginning to one of my WIP's...

Old: Lynn looked around her little country kitchen one last time.

New: The door slammed open hard enough that she thought the hinges might fail and in stepped the last person in the world she wanted to see.

So, do you feel it's better? Does it make a difference at all? Do you actually like the old one?

ETA: And how many think that limiting it to one single line is just too restricting? Should we look at first paragraphs?

I do think that it is entirely possible to get to the point where you obsess about the first line. If the first line rocks and the rest of the first page sucks... no one will read page two. If you rewrite your beginning over and over again... when will you write your middle and end?

Bel, your second opening seems to give just a bit more mystery. Now I want to see who the person is. I don't really care for country kitchens.

In my opinion, one of your professors was using the definition of a literary scholar whereas the other was using the definition of a literary agent.

While those of us in the AH may have aspirations for our work to eventually be studied as a classic and thereby subject to such scholarly scrutiny, I think it safe to say that our more immediate concern is to sell the work.

To that end, a hook is what the consumer of said work SAYS it is. They get to define it 'cause they're the ones who are being hooked.

Once the book is on the market, readers & critics will assess the hook by their own standards.

Then, maybe, it will attract the attention of the scholars (whose shit doesn't stink).

I get lazy with hooks because most of my work is sold before I write it. My partner is more focused (and talented) when it comes to opening sentence hooks.

I think the job of the first sentence is to draw the readers attention and awaken his imagination. The first few words make you want to read the next few and so on. If we do our jobs well, the reader never wants to stop reading.