Frustrated Editor

[AsylumSeeker]

I make suggestions and leave the changes open for the writers to either accept or deny, but then they post and say a public "thanks" to me for editing and then I discover my "suggestions", for one reason or another, were not enacted upon. So others will see the mistakes...

Don't get me wrong, I am highly appreciative of the thanks from writers, but at the same time it may prove to be problematic. It's not as if my livelihood is affected but just my fragile ego, lol.

You all see my plight. I'm wondering if I shouldn't just edit and hand them a corrected copy to post. But then that removes "control" of the story from the writer, which is never a good thing. Not sure if a good answer exists.

Maybe I should take Snooper's route (if I remember correctly) in returning both a "corrected" copy and a "clean" copy. They can "see" the corrections in a "corrected" copy and then post the edited "clean" copy without having to "clean up" the corrected copy (assuming all suggestions are accepted). This may simplify the process and I would be open to a little more work to reduce errors.

Your thoughts?

And to the writer in question should you see this, we're good. Just trying to see if a solution can be agreed upon to improve the editing process.

 

[sr71plt]

If you hand anything back to them to post, they have control over what is posted. And it's their work. There's no reason why they shouldn't maintain control over what is posted--or why they should/must take your advice on any of it, if they don't want to. The problem here is in whatever credit the editor is being given. And the best response to that is not to encourage the author to connect a specific story with a specific editor at all. Any thanks can be general.

It is, indeed a problem. Someone posted something to another board here a couple of months ago and thanked their VE. What was posted, however, was a mess. It would have been better for the VE to be a little less thanked. Who knows who took ownership for the truly dreadful shape it was in.

If you, as an editor, find yourself in an embarrassing position over an instance like this, you certainly have the power not to take another editing project from someone who you think disregarded your suggestions to an insulting/reputation damaging degree.

I'm in that bind with a book now. Because of the way the author wrote it before turning the manuscript in for government clearance to publish it, he did screwy things to the content of the text. Since the government cleared it that way (they don't censor simple sillyness), the author and publisher are stuck with publishing it that way if the publisher wants to go through with publication (and I suggested that they just cancel the contract with the author). In turning the edit back, though, I've made quite clear that I'm not to be named as the editor in the acknowledgments. I have edited what is there, though, under the clearance limitation, and I won't have any trouble cashing the paycheck for doing what I could with it.

 

[emap]

Yes do go with snoopy's method, return it twice as big, first up is the story as the writer wrote it with the problems marked out and explained, after the whole story has been marked up and explained, post your version of the story with all edits.

The writer is free to take part of the edit or none but they are also free to use the entirely edited version, which I do with snoopy. So if you see glaring problems with punctuation or spelling yell at snoopy I just take his edited version and post it.

Course I'm pretty sure between the two of us there won't be spelling problems, punctuation possibly I have weird taste on that and not everything is caught by the word spellchecker or snoopy.

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

I make suggestions and leave the changes open for the writers to either accept or deny, but then they post and say a public "thanks" to me for editing and then I discover my "suggestions", for one reason or another, were not enacted upon. So others will see the mistakes...

Yet another reason for telling authors not to thank the editor on the posting.

So if surely that must be "when", not "if" you see glaring problems with punctuation or spelling yell at snoopy I just take his edited version and post it.

I always leave a deliberate mistake in the text so that I can tell if the author reads my comments or not!

 

[emap]

I do read your comments, they get stored away in my noggin somewhere and sometimes appear again when I am writing something else and generally when they appear again get used.

I just take out your edited version and post that cause I don't wanna see the darn thing again.

 

[sr71plt]

Can't really understand why it's so important to check back to see if the writer took your advice--certainly not to the extent of purposely embedding a mistake to see what they do (and what's the guarantee they'll see and identify a mistake anyway?). Is the editor trying to grab ownership of the work? Or if the writer doesn't accept xxx amount of the editing, is the editor not going to work with them again (which, at least, makes a bit more sense than the vanity urge does)?

Sounds like editors trying to move the spotlight to themselves to me. The story--and how it's submitted--is the property/responsibility of the writer.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

Thanks editors. I have just started (edited one this a.m.) returning both an "edited" file showing corrections, and a "clean" file with my suggestions incorporated. Will see how well that works. Maybe will reduce the error potential.

 

[michchick98]

Thanks editors. I have just started (edited one this a.m.) returning both an "edited" file showing corrections, and a "clean" file with my suggestions incorporated. Will see how well that works. Maybe will reduce the error potential.

I wish that all authors who credited their editors would put something like: "Thanks to so-and-so for editing. Any mistakes you find are strictly my responsibility."

I know many author's do that. I thank my editor on all my stories (unless they're multi-chapter, then every so often I throw in a thanks...but anyway..) but I also make sure I've used most or all of her suggestions and changes.

I also have a beta reader who catches stuff that my editor and I both miss. I do have stories posted with small errors that even the beta reader missed.

My story always gets a final read through before I post it, too.

I had one author copy and paste what I sent her. I had notes throughout the story and paragraph breaks also. When she emailed me about her story being posted, she obviously didn't read through it because it was posted exactly as she'd copied it from me....complete with all my notes.

I emailed her back and told her about it. Never heard from her after that and never checked to see if she submitted an edited version of the story. And yes, she did thank me at the end of her story...go figure.

I just sent a story back to someone that I didn't finish editing. I found myself re-writing more than I should have. Compared to his first story, which had very few changes, this one had tons and I'd only gotten through half the story.

I told him if he wanted me to continue that I would. I also gave him the option to fix the rest of his story based on the changes I'd made.

It's a tough thing, this editing. I don't know how people can do it on a daily basis.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

I wish that all authors who credited their editors would put something like: "Thanks to so-and-so for editing. Any mistakes you find are strictly my responsibility."

That would help, sure, but then I'm not perfect. My only claim is that I can help writers to get accepted at Lit. Not an English major and all that.

I think the two copies, one "edited" and one "clean" is the best way to go. Worked once, will see how this goes in the future.

 

[song_bird]

If you hand anything back to them to post, they have control over what is posted. And it's their work. There's no reason why they shouldn't maintain control over what is posted--or why they should/must take your advice on any of it, if they don't want to. The problem here is in whatever credit the editor is being given. And the best response to that is not to encourage the author to connect a specific story with a specific editor at all. Any thanks can be general.

It is, indeed a problem. Someone posted something to another board here a couple of months ago and thanked their VE. What was posted, however, was a mess. It would have been better for the VE to be a little less thanked. Who knows who took ownership for the truly dreadful shape it was in.

If you, as an editor, find yourself in an embarrassing position over an instance like this, you certainly have the power not to take another editing project from someone who you think disregarded your suggestions to an insulting/reputation damaging degree.

Just jumping in with my two-cents about the first couple of comments you had here. I had an editor who agreed to look at my work, but after a week he turned back a copy without any apparent changes. Granted, I didn't go over it word for word, but I did read it through several times to make sure he hadn't made any unusual or disagreeable suggestions. Everything looked as I'd written it. Then he actually left a comment on the posted story, remarking on how it was nice to work with me as my editor. How very strange! It didn't bother me much, but I do like to give credit when credit is due.

And as a side note, thank you to all of you volunteer editors! I enjoy working with you because of the opportunity to observe how to think and give feedback as an editor.

 

[emap]

I kinda think you should go with all of it in one file, if you send two files, one changed to your edit and the other marked up with what is wrong and why, I am pretty sure alot of writers will simply open the edited version and post that without even bothering to read. Which isn't a problem except well they will keep making the same mistakes.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

Experiment Worked Once

I kinda think you should go with all of it in one file, if you send two files, one changed to your edit and the other marked up with what is wrong and why, I am pretty sure alot of writers will simply open the edited version and post that without even bothering to read. Which isn't a problem except well they will keep making the same mistakes.

Actually finished an edit a few days ago, sent an "edited" version and a "clean" version and explained to the writer the reason for both files. The writer responded back with thanks and a note that he/she was agreeable to all changes and submitted the "clean" copy, just as I'd hoped it might work. May continue doing this if at all possible.

 

[Iamcanadian28]

I kinda think you should go with all of it in one file, if you send two files, one changed to your edit and the other marked up with what is wrong and why, I am pretty sure alot of writers will simply open the edited version and post that without even bothering to read. Which isn't a problem except well they will keep making the same mistakes.

I think that greatly depends on the writer. Those of us who really want to get better, want to know not only what was changed but why. I never take an edit at face value, although she usually wins. A good editor is worth their weight in gold. Personally I couldn't handle getting an edited version, I like having one with the suggested corrections noted and then going over with the editor the reason for the changes and having the option of making many of them myself.

 

[sunandshadow]

When I edit I find it too much work to make two copies - instead I like to mark the changes I made with red or blue text or highlighter. Of course that assumes the writer can accept openoffice files or similar, so it has its own problems. But it's nice because the color-edited version can instantly be turned into a postable clean copy by just selecting it all and setting the font color to black, or if copying and pasting the story even that is unnecessary.

 

[PrincessErin]

.....

 

[_Lynn_]

My lovely wonderful amazing editor will make grammatical changes in red. Since starting with him I make alot less errors because I scan my document and look over each mistake. I try not to make the same mistake twice.

In parentheses he puts in comments and suggestions to make my story better. Normally it's questions that I haven't answered or time line confusions.

I had one editor before him who basically changed my whole story. I didn't like that because it wasn't my own work. Maybe it's a better story that way but not my story.

Erin

I agree there. I tell an author it's their choice to use or ignore my comments/suggestions/corrections. It's their story no matter what I feel should be changed in it and they can submit it however they want to, really.

I find that talking things over helps them make less mistakes in the future. They would never improve if they just used a corrected version in my opinion. Wouldn't I just be changing the same errors in every piece I did for them that way?

 

[AsylumSeeker]

I agree there. I tell an author it's their choice to use or ignore my comments/suggestions/corrections. It's their story no matter what I feel should be changed in it and they can submit it however they want to, really.

I find that talking things over helps them make less mistakes in the future. They would never improve if they just used a corrected version in my opinion. Wouldn't I just be changing the same errors in every piece I did for them that way?

That's a great counter-argument and worthy of discussion IMHO. Are we, as editors, also not teachers? Wow, that's powerful. Thanks Mistress for pointing that out. Further proof that multiple opinions (diversity) is a very good thing indeed!

Line up a bunch of people from the same background, present the same challenge, and they'll all pretty much come up with the same solution (as I've been told) But call out to the world and you'll get back a multitude if ideas.

Differences aren't something to be limiting but rather expanding. I'm liking where this is heading.

Mistress Lynn, thanks much for your input! Have a BDSM story surfacing soon (if Laurel decides to post it there) and would be most privileged if you took the time to read and comment. It's 5 Lit pages (was thinking breaking it up would result in chapters going here and there, none of them BDSM) but would love to get your input.

 

[_Lynn_]

That's a great counter-argument and worthy of discussion IMHO. Are we, as editors, also not teachers? Wow, that's powerful. Thanks Mistress for pointing that out. Further proof that multiple opinions (diversity) is a very good thing indeed!

Line up a bunch of people from the same background, present the same challenge, and they'll all pretty much come up with the same solution (as I've been told) But call out to the world and you'll get back a multitude if ideas.

Differences aren't something to be limiting but rather expanding. I'm liking where this is heading.

Mistress Lynn, thanks much for your input! Have a BDSM story surfacing soon (if Laurel decides to post it there) and would be most privileged if you took the time to read and comment. It's 5 Lit pages (was thinking breaking it up would result in chapters going here and there, none of them BDSM) but would love to get your input.

We are 'teachers' in the aspect that we hope the authors learn from what we point out.

I find that by talking to the authors I work with they tend to ask more questions. They then see their mistakes in a way they didn't before and work harder at correcting them in the future. Less work for me is a result but also there is a sense of pride for them in doing a better job.

It's all about improving. Changes are still their choice in their work, in my opinion.

I can teach them but I can't force them to take my suggestions.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

We are 'teachers' in the aspect that we hope the authors learn from what we point out.

I find that by talking to the authors I work with they tend to ask more questions. They then see their mistakes in a way they didn't before and work harder at correcting them in the future. Less work for me is a result but also there is a sense of pride for them in doing a better job.

It's all about improving. Changes are still their choice in their work, in my opinion.

I can teach them but I can't force them to take my suggestions.

I agree on all accounts. Interaction is by far the best.

 

[_Lynn_]

I agree on all accounts. Interaction is by far the best.

Of course. I was right.

 

[LadyCibelle]

Of course. I was right.

Of course you are, Lynn. Anybody who says the opposite is a fool.

 

[_Lynn_]

Of course you are, Lynn. Anybody who says the opposite is a fool.

Hi there, LadyC.

Being a little sassy wasn't I?

 

[LadyCibelle]

Hi there, LadyC.

Being a little sassy wasn't I?

Nahh, you were just your loveable self.

 

[michchick98]

My lovely wonderful amazing editor will make grammatical changes in red. Since starting with him I make alot less errors because I scan my document and look over each mistake. I try not to make the same mistake twice.

In parentheses he puts in comments and suggestions to make my story better. Normally it's questions that I haven't answered or time line confusions.

I had one editor before him who basically changed my whole story. I didn't like that because it wasn't my own work. Maybe it's a better story that way but not my story.

Erin

I do the same thing with people I edit, Erin. I made the changes in red then my notes in blue so my notes stand out from the edit and he/she can see why I changed that particular word/phrase, etc.

Most of the authors I edit seem to make the same mistakes, although I do notice they make an effort to apply what they've learned from me in previous stories/chapters.

If I find I'm re-writing more than just actually editing, I'll send the story back to the author with an explanation as to why and give him/her the option to fix it. When there's more red than black, I feel it's no longer something they've written, even though their name will be on the story.

I had to chuckle about the one girl who I edited, I think I mentioned her before, she just copied and pasted what I sent back to her then submitted it. When the story posted it had all my changes and notes in the story. I emailed her about it but never heard back and never checked if she fixed it.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

I do the same thing with people I edit, Erin. I made the changes in red then my notes in blue so my notes stand out from the edit and he/she can see why I changed that particular word/phrase, etc.

Most of the authors I edit seem to make the same mistakes, although I do notice they make an effort to apply what they've learned from me in previous stories/chapters.

If I find I'm re-writing more than just actually editing, I'll send the story back to the author with an explanation as to why and give him/her the option to fix it. When there's more red than black, I feel it's no longer something they've written, even though their name will be on the story.

I had to chuckle about the one girl who I edited, I think I mentioned her before, she just copied and pasted what I sent back to her then submitted it. When the story posted it had all my changes and notes in the story. I emailed her about it but never heard back and never checked if she fixed it.

I'm thinking the mistake that led to the debacle inspiring this thread is the use of Tracking Changes. I only recently learned about it as other editors told me they used it, so I figured "why not?". And I mentioned to the writer that I was doing this, but it's a feature that can be turned on and off. I think therein lies the problem. I have since stopped using it since this failed effort.