Birth control = abortion ???

[Homburg]

It's from the Huffington Post

In a spectacular act of complicity with the religious right, the Department of Health and Human Services Monday released a proposal that allows any federal grant recipient to obstruct a woman's access to contraception. In order to do this, the Department is attempting to redefine many forms of contraception, the birth control 40% of Americans use, as abortion. Doing so protects extremists under the Weldon and Church amendments. Those laws prohibit federal grant recipients from requiring employees to help provide or refer for abortion services. In the "Definitions" section of the HHS proposal it states,

"Abortion: An abortion is the termination of a pregnancy. There are two commonly held views on the question of when a pregnancy begins. Some consider a pregnancy to begin at conception (that is, the fertilization of the egg by the sperm), while others consider it to begin with implantation (when the embryo implants in the lining of the uterus). A 2001 Zogby International American Values poll revealed that 49% of Americans believe that human life begins at conception. Presumably many who hold this belief think that any action that destroys human life after conception is the termination of a pregnancy, and so would be included in their definition of the term "abortion." Those who believe pregnancy begins at implantation believe the term "abortion" only includes the destruction of a human being after it has implanted in the lining of the uterus."

The proposal continues,

"Both definitions of pregnancy inform medical practice. Some medical authorities, like the American Medical Association and the British Medical Association, have defined the term "established pregnancy" as occurring after implantation. Other medical authorities present different definitions. Stedman's Medical Dictionary, for example, defines pregnancy as "[t]he state of a female after conception and until the termination of the gestation." Dorland's Medical Dictionary defines pregnancy, in relevant part, as "the condition of having a developing embryo or fetus in the body, after union of an oocyte and spermatozoon."

Up until now, the federal government followed the definition of pregnancy accepted by the American Medical Association and our nation's pregnancy experts, the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, which is: pregnancy begins at implantation. With this proposal, however, HHS is dismissing medical experts and opting instead to accept a definition of pregnancy based on polling data. It now claims that pregnancy begins at some biologically unknowable moment (there's no test to determine if a woman's egg has been fertilized). Under these new standards there would be no way for a woman to prove she's not pregnant. Thus, any woman could be denied contraception under HHS' new science.

This hurts my head. Badly. Call me crazy, but birth control is a priori and abortion is ex post facto. How the fuck could those two be juxtaposed?

Before. After. Fucking muppets on Sesame Street get this idea.

 

[iluvyou3638]

yeeeah....that's pretty messed up. you're not stopping a life, you're just preventing it.

 

[kinkyknickers]

Just another way "the man" is trying to gain control over people. I hate that shit.

My body my fucking choice.

 

[Homburg]

The Pill (and birth control in general) has been a huge boost to women's rights. Now it is going to be equated with abortion, and thus can be refused, er ... I'm fucking lost. It's absurd to the point where I can't parse it.

And, utterly aside from that, they need to stop fucking with things that make sex more possible.

 

[kinkyknickers]

No offence to any Catholics, but it does sound like something the Catholic Church would be well behind.

We had the Australian government try to pass a law (that got overturned, thank fuck) that would put people in jail for trying to hand out condoms to the Catholic pilgrims in Sydney for world youth day. The Pope has alot to answer for with these archaic laws.

 

[intothewoods]

I'm pro-choice and also do not believe bc is abortion, but I'm not surprised.

So the rule now states that a grant recipient can refuse to provide abortions. It's probably easier to change the definition of abortion in the rule, than expand the rule to include a refusal to provide bc as well. Probably figured it wouldn't attract as much attention to boot.

Anyway, there are pro-life religious persons who believe that birth control interferes with God's plans. I don't agree, and it's totally foreign to the way I think about God and birth control (i.e., not at all in the same thought), but it's a free country.

It's also soooo 1980s. It's all about gay marriage now!

 

[Netzach]

Jesus. Why don't they just take anyone who's ever had a miscarriage out back and shoot her, that's an abortion too.

 

[intothewoods]

No offence to any Catholics, but it does sound like something the Catholic Church would be well behind.

We had the Australian government try to pass a law (that got overturned, thank fuck) that would put people in jail for trying to hand out condoms to the Catholic pilgrims in Sydney for world youth day. The Pope has alot to answer for with these archaic laws.

I am guessing it's more about political maneuvering than a belief that bc = abortion.

 

[BiBunny]

I'm not surprised, either. More "be fruitful and multiply" bullshit. Not out of any real religious obligation, but the more poor people we can keep down, the better. Yay!

I really need to hurry up and get the tubal ligation before it becomes nigh impossible. The Handmaid's Tale, anyone?

 

[intothewoods]

Jesus. Why don't they just take anyone who's ever had a miscarriage out back and shoot her, that's an abortion too.

No, that's God's plan. Duh! Unless you were running around doing bad things and that caused it.

I grew up around a lot of fundies. I know how it goes.

 

[Netzach]

No, that's God's plan. Duh! Unless you were running around doing bad things and that caused it.

I grew up around a lot of fundies. I know how it goes.

I would like to live somewhere I have more legal rights than a mysterious was it wasn't it clot in my period.

 

[kinkyknickers]

To me church and the state seem too intertwined to be of any real difference,

 

[Netzach]

This election cycle is going to be interesting. If they came back with "Do not want" in SD on an abortion amendment, I think there's going to be a very loud "Do not want" on a lot of these issues.

 

[Homburg]

Jesus. Why don't they just take anyone who's ever had a miscarriage out back and shoot her, that's an abortion too.

There was a push to get a law instituted around here that would require the report to the police, by the prospective mother, of the death of any fetus within 24 hours. It was intended to have a chilling effect on women seeking abortion. I about lost my mid though, as a friend of mine had just had a miscarriage a few days before I'd read the article. She was an emotional and physical wreck, and would've been legally required to call the police and report her miscarriage.

I wrote a scathing letter to my representative, and still felt like a bitch for not somehow doing more. Thankfully, intelligence prevailed for once, and that particular idiocy was shot down.

 

[Netzach]

There was a push to get a law instituted around here that would require the report to the police, by the prospective mother, of the death of any fetus within 24 hours. It was intended to have a chilling effect on women seeking abortion. I about lost my mid though, as a friend of mine had just had a miscarriage a few days before I'd read the article. She was an emotional and physical wreck, and would've been legally required to call the police and report her miscarriage.

I wrote a scathing letter to my representative, and still felt like a bitch for not somehow doing more. Thankfully, intelligence prevailed for once, and that particular idiocy was shot down.

Insane!

INSANE!

I don't know if I can finish this thread. Ugh.

 

[00Syd]

This is outrageous, we're going back in time. Didn't we already have the struggle to legalize contraception? Are we going to have to do it all over again?

 

[Homburg]

Insane!

INSANE!

I don't know if I can finish this thread. Ugh.

I really did lose my mind. I was calling my friends and yelling over the phone, calling my parents, talking to neighbours. I was so pissed.

 

[graceanne]

Their are some people who consider the pill to be abortion because it causes the uterus to be inhospitable to the egg. There are also people who consider birth control a sin. Whatever.

Nonetheless, their's a huge difference between birth control and an abortion. Their is also a difference between a miscarriage and an abortion (one's involuntary and one is voluntary). Nonetheless this is ridiculous. Abso-fucking-ridiculous.

 

[vampire28]

I'm probably older than most of you, and I remember what it was like before the pill. I remember what it was like before Roe v. Wade when some of my friends had to go to backalley butchers for abortions.

Over the years, I've seen women's rights to control their bodies eroded primarily by the fundamentalist right in the U.S. This is just another attempt to put women back in "their place" and it makes me furious.

Years ago someone said, "If men got pregnant, abortion would be a sacred right." There should be another line to that adding that birth control would be available to everyone.

Forgive the rant, but this pushes my buttons badly.

 

[Homburg]

Forgive the rant, but this pushes my buttons badly.

I think this is a thread were a rant like that is very appropriate.

 

[EmpressFi]

There was a push to get a law instituted around here that would require the report to the police, by the prospective mother, of the death of any fetus within 24 hours. It was intended to have a chilling effect on women seeking abortion. I about lost my mid though, as a friend of mine had just had a miscarriage a few days before I'd read the article. She was an emotional and physical wreck, and would've been legally required to call the police and report her miscarriage.

I wrote a scathing letter to my representative, and still felt like a bitch for not somehow doing more. Thankfully, intelligence prevailed for once, and that particular idiocy was shot down.

I can still remember the night I miscarried.. there's no way I would have been in the frame of mind to call the police and report it..hell I called my doctor and they told me I hadnt miscarried, that I'd probably just started my period..

Their are some people who consider the pill to be abortion because it causes the uterus to be inhospitable to the egg. There are also people who consider birth control a sin. Whatever.

Nonetheless, their's a huge difference between birth control and an abortion. Their is also a difference between a miscarriage and an abortion (one's involuntary and one is voluntary). Nonetheless this is ridiculous. Abso-fucking-ridiculous.

Actually most BC pills are just hormones. It's not that they make the uterus inhospitable, the uterus is fine, which is why a woman can still get pregnant and achieve implantation while on the pill. What the hormones do is trick the ovaries into thinking that you're pregnant so you dont ovulate. BC pills are usually a combination of estrogen and progesterone. Taking that dose, keeps the levels equal, your body thinks..uhoh.. we has a baby..so you dont ovulate again. That's why you have the last row of different colored pills, they're usually sugar pills, placebos, or in the case of Lo Estrin FE, they're iron pills. But when you take those, the hormones drop off, your body realizes it's not pregnant and the lining breaks down, if you're lucky it sloughs off and you have your period.

 

[graceanne]

Actually most BC pills are just hormones. It's not that they make the uterus inhospitable, the uterus is fine, which is why a woman can still get pregnant and achieve implantation while on the pill. What the hormones do is trick the ovaries into thinking that you're pregnant so you dont ovulate. BC pills are usually a combination of estrogen and progesterone. Taking that dose, keeps the levels equal, your body thinks..uhoh.. we has a baby..so you dont ovulate again. That's why you have the last row of different colored pills, they're usually sugar pills, placebos, or in the case of Lo Estrin FE, they're iron pills. But when you take those, the hormones drop off, your body realizes it's not pregnant and the lining breaks down, if you're lucky it sloughs off and you have your period.

I know that - I'm just telling you the propaganda put out by the ones who are against the birth control pill. I was on the pill for years, I don't consider it abortion.

AND, if you do ovulate and you're on the pill (it happens for some people) and that egg gets fertilized it has a lower chance of attaching to lining of the uterus wall. Frankly, the morning after pill is just a LOT of the same hormones in the birth control pill. I know, because my sister had several around, because she's lousy about remembering to take her pil (which is why she got her tubes tied) l and that's what the OB told her. That it's just like the birth control pill, but in a higher dosage.

 

[Betticus]

Ok, without reading any of the addended posts I shall now put out my own opinion...

If I were growing a tumor in my guts, human or not, I think that it's my right to control everything.... EVERYTHING... that is growing inside my body.

I feel that being forced to bear a child is akin to being forced to endure rape.

When someone forces me to endure something that I do not wish to go through they are raping me in some fashion. God under any religion never condoned the forcible production of anything from anyones body.

If you feel that abortion is wrong then please, gladly do not get yourself an abortion but do not force your own fucked up opinion upon anyone else. Let the rest of us sin unto oblivion and we will at the end of days answer to your god for our own sins. As was taught.

So shut your fucking holes and let us sinners dig our own holes.

 

[YourCaptor]

The parts Homburg posted make no sense without at least the next paragraph, so here is the rest.

The other rarely discussed issue here is whether hormonal contraception even does what the religious right claims. There is no scientific evidence that hormonal methods of birth control can prevent a fertilized egg from implanting in the womb. This argument is the basis upon which the religious right hopes to include the 40% of the birth control methods Americans use, such as the pill, the patch, the shot, the ring, the IUD, and emergency contraception, under the classification "abortion." Even the "pro-life" movement's most respected physicians cautioned the movement about making these claims. In 1999, the physicians -- who, like the movement at large, define pregnancy as beginning at fertilization-- released an open letter to community stating:

"Recently, some special interest groups have claimed, without providing any scientific rationale, that some methods of contraception may have an abortifacient effect...The 'hormonal contraception is abortifacient' theory is not established fact. It is speculation, and the discussion presented here suggests it is error...if a family, weighing all the factors affecting their own circumstances, decides to use this modality, we are confident that they are not using an abortifacient."

As the HHS proposal proves, the absence of fact or evidence does not slow anti-abortion movement attempts to classify hormonal contraception as abortion. With HHS' proposal they have struck gold. Anyone working for a federal clinic, or a health center that receives federal funding -- even in the form of Medicaid -- and would like to prevent a woman from accessing most prescription birth control methods has federal protection to do so. As the HHS proposal details,

"Because the statutes that would be enforced through this regulation seek, in part, to protect individuals and institutions from suffering discrimination on the basis of conscience, the conscience of the individual or institution should be paramount in determining what constitutes abortion, within the bounds of reason. As discussed above, both definitions of pregnancy are reasonable and used within the scientific and medical community. The Department proposes, then, to allow individuals and institutions to adhere to their own views and adopt a definition of abortion that encompasses both views of abortion.

" (emphasis mine)

So HHS proposes that anyone can enforce his or her own definition of abortion "within the bounds of reason." And, it would seem the bounds are pretty far flung. Most dangerously, perhaps, this new rule establishes a legal precedent that may eventually be used as a basis for banning the most popular forms of birth control along with what is, in fact, abortion.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Maybe they've been watching Monty Python?