Needs Met?

[SinfulSailor]

Yesterday's USA Today:

"The big thing that made marriages vulnerable in the past was that we expected so little, and today the big problem is we expect so much," says Stephanie Coontz, director of research at the non-profit Council on Contemporary Families, a group for researchers and clinicians.

Those expectations focus on the spouse as best friend or soul mate, which adds to the pressure on spouses and makes marriages more vulnerable, experts say.

"We expect one person to give us what an entire community used to — family life and stability and economic support and be a trusted confidant and passionate lover and experience adventure with the same person," says Esther Perel, a couples and family therapist in New York City.

--------------

Do you think this is accurate?

What about in a D/s relationship? Is it accurate? Not accurate? More accurate?

If there is any accuracy in the "expert" opinions and conclusions quoted, does it have a meaningful effect on the concept of "needs"? And needs being "met"?

 

[intothewoods]

I'm always thinking about this, especially in relation to poly and monogamy.

At the end of the day, one person cannot fulfill your every possible emotional need. I just don't think it's possible or healthy.

For me, just speaking as someone who would like to get married again and have more kids, the question is how to "design" (for lack of a better term) those outside interests and relationships (friendships, familial relationships, mild flirtations, whatever) in a way that you as an individual and supports the couple.

Not everyone will have that as an interest. But I do.

So, yeah, it's not a question I have the whole answer to right now.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I'm more into the feminist philosophy concerning 'experts'...the only expert in anyone's life is themselves. I think it makes for another avenue to pump out a few more books and earn some extra cash, apart from that I find it strange any expert would apply a blanket statement to anything and expect validity. We are all individuals, we all have our own unique life and quirks...what one person 'expects' may be totally different to what their neighbour expects, so it becomes a little ridiculous to make an expert opinion which comes over as a blanket statement about something as complicated as marriage and relationships. For one thing, even saying marriages in different time frames expected too little or too much is subjective...who decides what is too little or too much and too little and too much defined by what criteria?

So no, I don't think it serves as an accurate statement for mainstream marriages or D/s relationships, it just serves as an opinion a particular group of people may have on a particular set of marriages they examined or knew of. Same goes for needs....who defines what are appropriate needs and by what criteria and authority?

Catalina

 

[BiBunny]

I was talking about something similar with my friend Susan, who's going through a divorce. She's my age (24). She's come to realize that in order to have healthy relationships, she has to be happy with herself. AND she also can't say to herself, "I want to be happy, so I can find the right kind of man" or whatever because that's still basing your life around a single relationship. The very reason her marriage is breaking up is that neither she nor her husband really knew jack shit about themselves when they got married.

She's not worried about romantic relationships right now. She's focusing on bettering the lives of herself and her children. She wants to re-connect with her friends and have fun. Just because she's a divorced mother of two doesn't mean she's dead. Like I said, she's my age! She wants to become comfortable with herself and what she wants, and I think that's exactly what she needs to do, not do what a lot of people do and jump from one relationship to another because they're so terrified of getting to know themselves as individuals rather than as parts of relationships.

So many people believe they can find happiness in other people. Nope. Many people never learn this lesson (and thus are never truly happy), but real happiness comes from INSIDE YOURSELF. Learn to like who you are and change the parts of you that you don't like. Don't hide those parts in relationships with others.

A romantic relationship should never be the key to happiness. It's just another facet that makes your life fuller. It took ME a long time to realize that, but I'm grateful that I learned it the way I did, rather than some of the alternative ways. I'd hate to be in my 30s and still just as miserable with myself as I was when I was 18 or 19.

 

[00Syd]

Haha, her name is Coontz.


/hijack

 

[madetotakeit]

ITW and Bunny covered the two points that immediately came to my mind. Expecting one person to bear the brunt of someone's every emotional need is not healthy. It's not fair to the person receiving that weight. We are social creatures by design. Everyone we choose to have in our life should meet some emotional need as there are different types of emotional needs that should be met.

People who look to others to make them happy are bound to remain just the opposite. What happens when that person can not be there? Do they crumble, retreat from the world? A person should add to your life, not be your life. The only way to be happy is to find it in yourself and build out from there.

 

[intothewoods]

Haha, her name is Coontz.


/hijack

*snort* You're so funny.

Knowing what you want and need is key, although it does change over time. I think another important component of a long term relationship is a certain flexibility with your partner.

You know, the upside of marriage is you have someone to grow old with. The challenge will be monotony at some points or a change in your partner that you think you didn't sign up for, or any number of things you might not envision when you first get married. Ultimately, there are going to be things that you didn't expect and aren't "perfect." But the payoff for working through that is the shared history.

 

[licker4450]

Well being into total power exchange relationships, I find this topic interesting. Of course, as Master my needs are to be met or my slave is not fulfilling her mission (nor her desire). However, her needs are also extremely important. I meet many Masters in this lifestyle who believe that it is all about them.

Well I like the motto, "a happy slave=a happy Master". Even in a M/s relationship, there needs to be mutual satisfaction or else it will end.

 

[faeriefire]

Yesterday's USA Today:

"The big thing that made marriages vulnerable in the past was that we expected so little, and today the big problem is we expect so much" Those expectations focus on the spouse as best friend or soul mate, which adds to the pressure on spouses and makes marriages more vulnerable, experts say.

BS! Every marriage is different. I have coworkers who expect to take care of the kids, the house, work a full week, take care of their husbands and cover up the bruises the next day. There are marriages that look good from the outside, or the inside, or from upside down. And those that don't. I dunno what people today really expect marriage will bring. Honestly, I think it really depends of the group of people you're asking, their SES, religion, and the geographical region in which they were raised. Perhaps it's the next logical step, the socially acceptable thing to do, the reason we're here. But for every person that will be different. Um...and if your spouse isn't your friend or a 'soul mate' why bother marrying them convenience? survival? habit? a lark? because it makes logical fiscal sense?

"We expect one person to give us what an entire community used to — family life and stability and economic support and be a trusted confidant and passionate lover and experience adventure with the same person," says Esther Perel, a couples and family therapist in New York City. Do you think this is accurate?

The community is still there should one choose to reach out and be part of it. Far as I know marriage has been around awhile. I'm imagining the old west here, where couples depended on the other to fill very different roles because neither was capable of doing both at once. I really don't think there was a network of economic support, confidants, or community lovers hanging out at the local watering hole back then either...

What about in a D/s relationship? Is it accurate? Not accurate? More accurate?

If there is any accuracy in the "expert" opinions and conclusions quoted, does it have a meaningful effect on the concept of "needs"? And needs being "met"?

I think most people like being connected with others. Seem to gravitate towards forming relationships. Like to know they have friends. I think it's possible to be happy, that such a place has to come from within an individual, and that it is possible to be fulfilled by others too. There are personal wants and desires that I am not capable of providing solo...well, I suppose I could talk to myself, cuddle with a pillow or tie myself up

There's something to be said for forming relationships and finding contentment within them. But if there is a fundamental unhappiness within someone I don't believe it's possible for another person to fix it.

We all have needs and for some people marriage will meet some of them. For others D/s will. And some prefer fulfilling them personally. In any case I think an individual has to know their own needs first. Trick is, everyone is different...and I'm sorta surprised the experts would make blanket statements when each relationship is truly based on the subjective experiences of the people who formed that bond.

 

[Big Poppa]

In a vanilla relationship, I try my damnest to make sure my partner's needs are met. Does it always happen that way? Nope, Im not perfect and I have my moments.

In a D/s relationship I feel its important that both partners have their needs met. How/when for the pyl's is a different story.

 

[desertslave]

Well I like the motto, "a happy slave=a happy Master". Even in a M/s relationship, there needs to be mutual satisfaction or else it will end.

I agree! He makes me happy, and I know I do the same for him. I have friends related to outside interests that he's not into, but I can still talk to him about absolutely anything (and do). He's my Master, my husband and, as an added bonus, he's my best friend, too! He fulfills me, he makes me laugh, he amazes and delights me, and he allows me to do as much of the same for him as I possibly can.

I'm not saying that it has to be that way for everyone, but it most certainly works that way for us, and damned well, too. And I most certainly don't see our relationship as being 'stressed' in any way.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Yesterday's USA Today:

"The big thing that made marriages vulnerable in the past was that we expected so little, and today the big problem is we expect so much," says Stephanie Coontz, director of research at the non-profit Council on Contemporary Families, a group for researchers and clinicians.

I can kind of see this because, certainly in my grandparents day, people worked through and made the best of marriage. Exceptions were in the vast minority. This was by no means always a good thing but people were more dedicated to marriage and a stable environment for kids than they are these days. Also, it was post war and people had more appreciation for things. Everything they had was something that had been fought for. There’s a lot to be said for having genuine appreciation and gratitude for what you’ve got.

"We expect one person to give us what an entire community used to — family life and stability and economic support and be a trusted confidant and passionate lover and experience adventure with the same person," says Esther Perel, a couples and family therapist in New York City.

I think people do expect more from marriage and are quicker to walk away from a marriage if they feel their needs aren’t being met. I also think that some people confuse the natural ebb and flow of passion in a marriage as ‘falling out of love’ and jump ship because their life is no longer like the last scene in a chick flick. People are less likely to gamble with their time and stick around to see of things improve. There is also far less stigma to leaving a marriage now and people are less afraid of being on their own or that they might not meet someone else.

I think also there is often less of a sense of community, especially in cities. We have lived in our little street for nearly a year and I know the people on one side of us to nod and smile to, the guy in the corner shop and that’s it. I have tried nodding and smiling to other neighbours and I just get the bare minimum of a response. People are very wary and closed these days. There was a baby crying across the street for hours once and then the sound of a row between the parents erupted. There was screaming and yelling and it was still 20 min or more before I called the police. I felt bad for that, that people have such a general fear of each other that even when I’m across the street I wait that long to make that call. No action was taken by the police that night but the couple have since had their kids taken into care so something must have been very wrong.

I love Master and he is one of my best friends but the fact remains that there are some things for which I need the company and counsel of women. My female friends are so very valuable to me. I have never been the type of girl to shun her friends when a new man comes along (after the flush of the first month anyway) because I recognise that no man could ever take their place in my life. To try and find one who could would be utter stupidity. In the same way, I am never going to be able to fill the role of ‘mate’ to Master. He needs guys to hang out with, get drunk, play computer games and tell obscene jokes with. We need different things from different people.

What about in a D/s relationship? Is it accurate? Not accurate? More accurate?

I personally think that in D/s you are more aware of your partner’s needs. It is less easy to take them for granted IMO because very specific roles have been assigned. In many nilla relationships, people take each other for granted because they have no real concept of what their partner’s needs truly are. It’s the Mars and Venus syndrome all over again. I know many couples like this. Once a need for D/s has been admitted to and a dynamic is established, it makes confessing all the little things so much less of a big deal. It’s also something that comes with maturity and trust in a partner but there is almost nothing I couldn’t tell Master. He has seen the darkest, nastiest facets of my personality and exploited them for his own amusement. Confessing that I made a mistake with the finances or whatever is child’s play by comparison.

 

[the_mgp]

**********

 

[unfoundiamond]

I am interested in poly for this reason.

I don't see how one person can fulfill all my needs.
But 9 out of 10 people think they can... and don't wanna admit they can't... so then you have to hide friends or people...

Its bullshit.

I want to have a small commune of people.

I should have a cult.

 

[desertslave]

I've been thinking more on this. Perhaps it's a degree. Does anyone ever have ALL their needs fulfilled? By one OR by many people?

In some cases (because I can't believe I'm the only one LOL) I guess it's a matter of having "enough." Master does this for me. I treasure my artist friends, my SCA friends, my best pal from high school. But Master is my foundation, everything else is transitional. He gives me enough, and then some, to sustain me and inspire me and, well, all that good stuff. He doesn't seem particularly burdened by this, either.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I've been thinking more on this. Perhaps it's a degree. Does anyone ever have ALL their needs fulfilled? By one OR by many people?

I've gradually come to the realisation that if I'm not having all or enough of my needs met by people then it's my own responsibility. Either I am not meeting enough of other people's needs in return or I need to work on attracting new acquaintances and potential friends into my life. I consider myself to be a good and loyal friend but sometimes, for various reasons people lose touch with each other and then a gap appears in my personal fulfilment zone. Whether I await that friend's return to my life, accept the gap or try to fill it is down to me. Blaming friends for 'deserting' me and getting depressed and low-self-esteemy is just harmful IME.

 

[Homburg]

Well I like the motto, "a happy slave=a happy Master". Even in a M/s relationship, there needs to be mutual satisfaction or else it will end.

I've said this numerous times. The caveat is that what may look dissatisfying to one can be very satisfying to another, so it is tough to tell from the outside. In general though, I try to keep my gals happy. It works out better that way.

 

[honoria]

I've gradually come to the realisation that if I'm not having all or enough of my needs met by people then it's my own responsibility. Either I am not meeting enough of other people's needs in return or I need to work on attracting new acquaintances and potential friends into my life. I consider myself to be a good and loyal friend but sometimes, for various reasons people lose touch with each other and then a gap appears in my personal fulfilment zone. Whether I await that friend's return to my life, accept the gap or try to fill it is down to me. Blaming friends for 'deserting' me and getting depressed and low-self-esteemy is just harmful IME.

You're absolutely right. Not only that, but it is unfair and unreasonable to expect any one person to meet all your needs. ("Your" is used in the communal sense). I don't believe that any one person can be the "be all, end all" for anyone and it is a sure-fire recipe for failure and frustration to try. Both parties will end feeling that they have failed when it is really only unrealistic expectation.

Having said that, I see a lot of people that believe they only need that one special someone and then all of life will be perfect. (OK, overstated, but you get the point) Those people don't feel they need to cultivate any other relationships and a large number of them are interested only in what they recieve, not what they give in return.

I wonder if this is a function of maturity or if there is some basic instruction that is being neglected?

 

[unfoundiamond]

I guess there's two kinds.

I guess there's people who have relationships to be together and have companionship and there's people who seek to have a fulfilling companion.

Or maybe I want both. Not just someone who is there, but makes the time sweeter.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I wonder if this is a function of maturity or if there is some basic instruction that is being neglected?

I think that a large part of this is maturity. As a child, by and large, we seek positive reinforcement and love above all things. Not to receive these things damages our self esteem. As adults, we recognise that people are imperfect and life isn't fair. As a result, we (ideally) become more self reliant and less dependent on positive reinforcement from others. In some people, for various reasons, this process is interrupted or curtailed and emotional problems occur as a result.

This is by no means a blanket statement. Just my observation of the majority of people in my life.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I guess there's people who have relationships to be together and have companionship and there's people who seek to have a fulfilling companion.

Or maybe I want both. Not just someone who is there, but makes the time sweeter.

I think it all depends what you need for your own satisfaction and wellbeing. Some need a full time SO, others need independence, punctuated with love and companionship as a kind of light relief.

 

[honoria]

I think that a large part of this is maturity. As a child, by and large, we seek positive reinforcement and love above all things. Not to receive these things damages our self esteem. As adults, we recognise that people are imperfect and life isn't fair. As a result, we (ideally) become more self reliant and less dependent on positive reinforcement from others. In some people, for various reasons, this process is interrupted or curtailed and emotional problems occur as a result.

This is by no means a blanket statement. Just my observation of the majority of people in my life.

While I agree that we should become more self reliant a not need others for ALL our self esteem I don't believe we ever outgrow the need for love, approval and postive reinforcement from outside ourselves. Nor should we or life would be incredibly empty. But the hope is that somewhere along the line we learn to GIVE as well as receive. Sometimes our inner voice gets drowned out and the kindness of others, the lift, the encouragement, the hug are the only thing that keeps us from depression. And sadly, oftentimes the people closest to us don't always see that need. So having a larger base to draw from becomes needful.

This board is a prime example. I've seen kindness and encouragement given and recieved. People come here to be heard, to be understood and if it were possible for one person to supply all of anothers needs then this would be an empty medium.

 

[desertslave]

Having said that, I see a lot of people that believe they only need that one special someone and then all of life will be perfect. (OK, overstated, but you get the point) Those people don't feel they need to cultivate any other relationships and a large number of them are interested only in what they recieve, not what they give in return.

I wonder if this is a function of maturity or if there is some basic instruction that is being neglected?

Interesting point of view. I never expected the depth of this relationship. I've never actually been friends with my PYL before. When I moved cross-country to be with him, I'd already made some local friends (I thought) via online. However, once I got here I got "left" high & dry, despite several attempts on my part.

Eventually I settled in and met folks related to other interests. I'm friendly with many but really don't have another deep-serious friend. (I should also mention that I was seriously burned by someone a few years ago who turned out to be an utter sociopath. It made me a little skittish about getting to know anyone else beyond a certain point. Master is the only one who's persevered and won my trust since then.)

Perhaps it's immaturity (though at almost-48 I think I've gained that in other areas, anyway). Perhaps it's insecurity. I think I'm very giving. Master worries that I tend to get over-committed from time to time. Maybe it's just my ADD nature, a lot of people get impatient with that, with me. Whatever it is, I find that most of the time I prefer to either be alone, with him, or with my kids. That's where the fun is.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

While I agree that we should become more self reliant a not need others for ALL our self esteem I don't believe we ever outgrow the need for love, approval and postive reinforcement from outside ourselves.

Oh I completely agree. When I said 'more self reliant' I never meant to imply 'completely.' Family expectations and validity from other sources is very important and not to be trivialised at all. I hope you will permit me to fence-sit here.

 

[honoria]

Oh I completely agree. When I said 'more self reliant' I never meant to imply 'completely.' Family expectations and validity from other sources is very important and not to be trivialised at all. I hope you will permit me to fence-sit here.

Of course, love.

Interesting point of view. I never expected the depth of this relationship. I've never actually been friends with my PYL before. When I moved cross-country to be with him, I'd already made some local friends (I thought) via online. However, once I got here I got "left" high & dry, despite several attempts on my part.

Eventually I settled in and met folks related to other interests. I'm friendly with many but really don't have another deep-serious friend. (I should also mention that I was seriously burned by someone a few years ago who turned out to be an utter sociopath. It made me a little skittish about getting to know anyone else beyond a certain point. Master is the only one who's persevered and won my trust since then.)

Perhaps it's immaturity (though at almost-48 I think I've gained that in other areas, anyway). Perhaps it's insecurity. I think I'm very giving. Master worries that I tend to get over-committed from time to time. Maybe it's just my ADD nature, a lot of people get impatient with that, with me. Whatever it is, I find that most of the time I prefer to either be alone, with him, or with my kids. That's where the fun is.

Friends and validation come in all flavors and types. Some fairly superficial others deeper and longer lasting.

Trust, well that's scary and hard and something I work on all the time. Once you've been burned trust is no longer something you give freely. It becomes a concious act of will -- a very scary act of will. But one I'm not willing to give up because the rewards are so much greater than never trusting again. Yes, there are those people that will betray and abuse that trust. I understand that and realize that some see me as a doormat or someone that can be taken advantage of. What they don't understand is that it's my choice how much I put up with. I truly believe that for all the pain there has been at least twice as much joy.