Is this service?

[VelvetDarkness]

I am an owned slave in a 24/7 TPE dynamic. I am naturally passive and submissive and very service oriented. Master has a few issues at present. He has a chronic health problem that is slowly improving but it has left him depressed. He has a history of depression (more than slightly bipolar in my opinion) and mild OCD that worsens when he is depressed. He is overweight and his medication and sedentary lifestyle caused by the health problem has left him bordering on obese. He has been to his GP recently about getting some therapy but has yet to receive his first appointment. Master has never had any kind of chronic physical health problem before and it has sapped his strength a lot, which upsets him. He has always been a big guy but he used to be strong with it. Now he feels like a feeble fatty.

I have supported him as best I can, listened when he wants to talk and let him be when he doesn't. I have cooked him healthy food and encouraged walks, sex exercise etc to get him back into shape. I have discovered that he has occasionally been binge eating/boozing behind my back. I know his eating and drinking habits are strongly comfort motivated and when he is down, he couldn't give a shit about his diet or health. He always regrets these slip ups but lately there has been a new twist.

Master has been encouraging me to 'nag' him. He wants me to speak up when he is eating too much or hasn't worked out in a few days as a part of my service. This sounds simple enough but it's causing friction because at this stage in the game, Master is far from accustomed to having his behaviour moderated by me. It also gets him down that he feels he has to ask me to keep an eye on him this way. He has lost his confidence as a dom somewhat because this weight problem and depression has basically decimated his self esteem - which has never been huge.

There is also an underlying tension caused by the fact that Master feels unattractive right now. I still fancy the ass off him and keep telling him so but he doesn't believe me, he thinks I'm just being a 'good slave' while I wait for the weight to come off. I couldn't care less about his weight, I just want him to be happy and healthy and we both know that this isn't possible at his current weight. He also dislikes the way he now lacks strength and stamina. He is now convinced that I think he's fat and ugly and want him to lose weight, which is simply untrue. I want to help him reach his own goals so that he's happy.

I'm really not very good at playing Jiminy Cricket when he reaches for a cookie and it always makes him angry with himself that he is so 'weak' when it comes to food. He is hungry all the time and sits there clutching his stomach some evenings, wiling himself not to eat after I've fed him a large, wholesome dinner.

I know there are no quick solutions here but I am finding it really tough to play drill seargent and in truth I feel more like I'm mothering him, which is no good for either of us because it makes him feel weak and disempowered and if I'm brutally honest, my respect for him is starting to suffer a little. I have always been a member of the 'if it needs fixing, suck it up and make the changes' brigade and I feel he should be more committed to his goals re weightloss and fitness rather than appointing me to nag all the time and cause friction between us.

Ok, end of rant.

Thoughts?

 

[Netzach]

That's only service up to a point, and eventually the same few basic laws that apply to regular relationships whether they're at the office or in school or in bed apply.

IE: you can't change someone, they have to do it themselves.

I have food issues - one helpful thing I've found is to not let food I can't eat follow me home at all. There's no "cookie" to reach for.

We both have difficulties with the healthy lifestyle thing, and I get very resentful at the times I think I'm so much more motivated to change etc. I stopped nagging, I stopped reminding, and I started doing my OWN. It has incited him into working out a little more, getting the tires on his bike fixed, getting into the headspace to make his changes his way.

I discovered we both HATE the gym, it's never going to be part of how we solve the problem, we have to find things we like to do and do them.

I would definitely call off an order that was making things difficult in the relationship, OR consider teaching how I want to be nagged, limiting the things said, the duration, the frequency. But this involves a sense of one's own habits and a desire to change them - the "nagging" is really only hearing what you're already telling yourself then in someone else's voice.

 

[rida]

HUGS to you first. You too are not in a easy position at the moment and deserve some comfort.

I know how you feel. I was there, minus the 24/7 TPE, for almost how long I've been married, but it really got bad in the last few years or so when he started feeling the weight of age and, incidentally after adding the D/s dynamic.

He always drank, but he started binging. He realized it was bad and asked me to ask him every night how much had he drank. I would ask and he would either dismiss the question or get upset and defensive and drink after I went to bed. He was not ready to fix the problem and all I could do was being there for him and nag when I had to. I resented him. A lot.

I too am of the school of thought that if something bothers you either you fix it or you shut up. And even if I rationally understood that his depression was the cause and he truly could not do much about it, I resented him. I resented that he would not go and find help. And would dismiss me if I tried to mention it. I resented that he was not going to be the Dom I needed and yet had demands on me. I knew he was doing what he could because he did start to do something for his feeling overweight problem: stationary exercising bicycle twice a day and fasting one day a week (he cannot reduce the amount he eat at one sitting, let alone eat lightly at dinner so he has found that for him going one whole day without food is much easier.).

It has been a long way, and finally he accepted that he needed help. He went to see a doc and was diagnosed with bipolar and has been on stabilizing med for slightly over a month now. The difference is night and day. To the point that I am falling in love with him even more, if possible. LOL

He has cut down on alcohol. When he would just burst out in an anger fit or a depressed bout, he is now able to rationally express his anger or disappointment. He also sleep better and feel more energy, as such having more desire to play.

I know how hard is to see someone we love spiraling down, not able to do the things that need to be done to fix the problem, when we see the solution so clearly. Feeling pissed at him, disappointed at him at times is natural and inevitable. In the worst moment I honestly thought that for all the love I had for him and he had for me, I did not need the grief of being with him in my life. That being miserable alone was better than being miserable with him. I spent nights crying, days walking on tip toes not knowing what the day would bring (he was never violent, but I honestly feared he would do something stupid out of desperation).

What kept me going was the memory of the magic moments we experience together. The closeness and intimacy, the knowledge deep down of what together we could have achieved and the hope that we would.

Be there for him. Do as he asks, yes, that is service too. But also take time to nurture yourself. When he wants to be alone, even if you feel it would be better to be there for him, from time to time, take that time to pamper yourself. Talk and vent with friends, remember to stay strong.

Yes, he is the Master and you are the slave. Yes, he has the power in the relationship. But it does not mean he has all the strength. Sometime, it is our job, as pyl, to be the strength of the relationship, to be the ones giving more and being in charge. That too is service as it is done to nurture the relationship, to nurture the PYL, to serve.

 

[Sharon_]

I am an owned slave in a 24/7 TPE dynamic. I am naturally passive and submissive and very service oriented. Master has a few issues at present. He has a chronic health problem that is slowly improving but it has left him depressed. He has a history of depression (more than slightly bipolar in my opinion) and mild OCD that worsens when he is depressed. He is overweight and his medication and sedentary lifestyle caused by the health problem has left him bordering on obese. He has been to his GP recently about getting some therapy but has yet to receive his first appointment. Master has never had any kind of chronic physical health problem before and it has sapped his strength a lot, which upsets him. He has always been a big guy but he used to be strong with it. Now he feels like a feeble fatty.

I have supported him as best I can, listened when he wants to talk and let him be when he doesn't. I have cooked him healthy food and encouraged walks, sex exercise etc to get him back into shape. I have discovered that he has occasionally been binge eating/boozing behind my back. I know his eating and drinking habits are strongly comfort motivated and when he is down, he couldn't give a shit about his diet or health. He always regrets these slip ups but lately there has been a new twist.

[...]

Thoughts?

Remember you ~asked~.....

I'm an INTJ personality type, not a sub (or a domme, for that matter) and a couple decades longer in the tooth than you so bear my points of reference in mind:

I would *NEVER* allow someone so demonstrably not in control of their own self to be in control of *me*, and I'm not talking about the food....I'm referring to the unstable moodiness and drinking. If someone wants to be in charge, they have to be level and balanced first and foremost; if they can't operate in that frame during normal events they certainly can't be trusted when things run slightly askew of normal let alone in a crisis.

I would *NEVER* (again) allow someone with a demonstrable substance abuse issue to be my mate.

If he's binge drinking and even worse, hiding his drinking, then he has an alcohol problem. Active alcoholics are unstable and will never care about you more than their booze; that way lies madness and often violence.

Sadly, most of us learn this thru Hard Knocks U - which can be a very unforgiving school.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Been there, done that and yes, it does cause friction. It was considered service always, but at times was treated as a point of disservice as another outlet for his frustration. Being the bad slave I am, I got to a point where I sat him down and told him I was no longer willing to do it the way he had been expecting me to, mostly because IMHO it was removing responsibility from him for his own issues and actually making it worse overall....at times even a game of what could be gotten away with. Didn't make me feel good, but basically it is one of those things you can support a person with, but cannot be responsible for if you have their best interests at heart.

I am still supportive, I still make sure the house is full of healthy food, but I no longer will tell him what to eat, when, or prod him verbally when I see him eating or doing the wrong thing. It has taken awhile, but he is beginning to take up the slack and actively attack the issue himself, and though it has been difficult, he feels better with it this way than my having to be his conscience or excuse, and I feel a lot better as well. Whether this will work for you both I don;t know, but sometimes a slave has to do what is best for the PYL, and what in the long term and once things are more positive, would be and is then appreciated and given credit. Does lend to lots of negative feelings for the pyl though, and that in itself requires a lot of self talk and closing down of emotions at times.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

Remember you ~asked~.....

I'm an INTJ personality type, not a sub (or a domme, for that matter) and a couple decades longer in the tooth than you so bear my points of reference in mind:

I would *NEVER* allow someone so demonstrably not in control of their own self to be in control of *me*, and I'm not talking about the food....I'm referring to the unstable moodiness and drinking. If someone wants to be in charge, they have to be level and balanced first and foremost; if they can't operate in that frame during normal events they certainly can't be trusted when things run slightly askew of normal let alone in a crisis.

I would *NEVER* (again) allow someone with a demonstrable substance abuse issue to be my mate.

If he's binge drinking and even worse, hiding his drinking, then he has an alcohol problem. Active alcoholics are unstable and will never care about you more than their booze; that way lies madness and often violence.

Sadly, most of us learn this thru Hard Knocks U - which can be a very unforgiving school.

Heavy on the J much?

I'm an INTP.

It'd be great if the world worked that way. Most of us don't walk out on our mates the moment depression or addiction rear their heads. Thank god for those of us who are less than perfect ourselves.

Do take stock of yourself though, don't stay in something that's more misery than not. Don't sink with someone who won't grab for the buoy of therapy. But at the end of the day, it boils down to you are responsible for YOUR life, he is for his own.

 

[Netzach]

Been there, done that and yes, it does cause friction. It was considered service always, but at times was treated as a point of disservice as another outlet for his frustration. Being the bad slave I am, I got to a point where I sat him down and told him I was no longer willing to do it the way he had been expecting me to, mostly because IMHO it was removing responsibility from him for his own issues and actually making it worse overall....at times even a game of what could be gotten away with. Didn't make me feel good, but basically it is one of those things you can support a person with, but cannot be responsible for if you have their best interests at heart.

I am still supportive, I still make sure the house is full of healthy food, but I no longer will tell him what to eat, when, or prod him verbally when I see him eating or doing the wrong thing. It has taken awhile, but he is beginning to take up the slack and actively attack the issue himself, and though it has been difficult, he feels better with it this way than my having to be his conscience or excuse, and I feel a lot better as well. Whether this will work for you both I don;t know, but sometimes a slave has to do what is best for the PYL, and what in the long term and once things are more positive, would be and is then appreciated and given credit. Does lend to lots of negative feelings for the pyl though, and that in itself requires a lot of self talk and closing down of emotions at times.

Catalina

You know, it really doesn't work in either direction in my experience. I've seen people "quit smoking because Master refuses to let me" and the moment the relationship ends (and it usually does) the smoking is back with renewed vigor.

 

[kinkyknickers]

I'm with Netzach on this one,

A couple of us in our relationship, (ie Master and myself, Minxie is currently trying to "grow boobs", so no problem there) have always had problems with overeating. We eat due to emotional problems, etc.

I find the best thing as a short term solution is to remove temptation altogether. I hardly ever have more food in the house than I can eat in a day, which, for alot of people, really inconvinient, but I'm used to it.

Maybe going for a walk together every morning or evening would be a good start to excersize, it doesn't have to start out long or strenuous, but even a little raise in your heart rate can give you a feeling of well being.

Body and mind cannot be fixed independently, they need to be slowly put back together as a unit.

As for service..... If he wants you to nag, then nag. If he bitches at you for doing so then...... poke your toungue out and say, "chase me", and run down the street, he'll have to catch you to exact punishment .

KK

 

[Recidiva]

He is essentially ordering you to rescue him.

Whether or not you like to think of him as needing to be rescued or that makes him unattractive, it's an opportunity to find a way to get him what he needs and get him to accept it. He needs your patience with him, as he has none right now. He needs to know that he's worth the hard work of becoming a better person. He needs someone to make an effort on his behalf.

This calls for either giving up, or trying anything and everything to help him, unappetizing as it may be to you personally. This is a medical issue, and if you take away all the judgment regarding how or why he got there, and deal with fixing it, it gets easier and the way is much clearer.

I would suggest going on a diet together or exercising together. Nothing huge. Changes in the way the home is stocked, acknowledging that there's an addictive, destructive thought pattern that's taken hold.

Small, evolutionary changes, not big drastic ones. Measurable gains and changes. Not condemnation, not hatred, not judgment. Be forgiving, be understanding, be encouraging, be effective. Keep trying different diets, exercise methods and motivational methods until one works. Be willing to keep going. Believe there is a solution.

Tell him the truth about how you feel, without apologizing.

Make the changes in ways he can't. Love him, support him, help him, and bear the burden.

He's showing you he can't bear it himself and needs your help.

Destructive habits and thought patterns can be overcome. Show him that.

For me, I limit calories, make sure I eat vegetables, fruit, protein and grain every few hours, and just do 10 minute bursts of exercise, even as simple as leg stretches watching TV. Tiny things that take the thought out of the process and leave me free to lead the rest of my life. Get the basics out of the way first.

Small things make huge changes. A slight change in trajectory of your attitude and a willingness to move a mountain one grain of sand at a time, not shooting for perfection, but shooting for improvement.

Forgiveness of failure and the willingness to try again with new committment every time a step back happens, and it will.

Good luck.

 

[Sharon_]

Heavy on the J much?

<grin>
Ayup.

"I'm really sorry you have to die."

I'm an INTP.

It'd be great if the world worked that way. Most of us don't walk out on our mates the moment depression or addiction rear their heads. Thank god for those of us who are less than perfect ourselves.

<shrug>
"Lead, follow or get out of the way.", I have neither the patience or the inclination to deal with drama.

And I never said walk away because one's partner is depressed...she specifically said "moodiness" aka swings. That's unstable, IMHO, and not the kind of drama I need or want in my life, certainly not from someone who takes it upon themselves to be "in charge".

If someone's mood is erratic then I have no confidence in their decision making abilities especially decision making under stress. Ditto someone with an active substance abuse problem, I wouldn't cede control by hopping in a cab with a drinking driver, let alone cede control over any other areas of my life.

Do take stock of yourself though, don't stay in something that's more misery than not. Don't sink with someone who won't grab for the buoy of therapy. But at the end of the day, it boils down to you are responsible for YOUR life, he is for his own.

In effect, by hiding his drinking, he *is* refusing to grab for the buoy. Highschool kids and college freshmen hide their drinking so they don't get in trouble. When adults do it, that's a flashing neon sign.

What I'm saying is if your mate won't seek treatment, your only option is to walk...otherwise you're just an enabler and things will get worse. Usually much worse, and you'll be drug down into the maelstrom alongside the substance abuser.

 

[Recidiva]

<grin>
Ayup.

"I'm really sorry you have to die."

<shrug>
"Lead, follow or get out of the way.", I have neither the patience or the inclination to deal with drama.

And I never said walk away because one's partner is depressed...she specifically said "moodiness" aka swings. That's unstable, IMHO, and not the kind of drama I need or want in my life, certainly not from someone who takes it upon themselves to be "in charge".

If someone's mood is erratic then I have no confidence in their decision making abilities especially decision making under stress. Ditto someone with an active substance abuse problem, I wouldn't cede control by hopping in a cab with a drinking driver, let alone cede control over any other areas of my life.

In effect, by hiding his drinking, he *is* refusing to grab for the buoy. Highschool kids and college freshmen hide their drinking so they don't get in trouble. When adults do it, that's a flashing neon sign.

What I'm saying is if your mate won't seek treatment, your only option is to walk...otherwise you're just an enabler and things will get worse. Usually much worse, and you'll be drug down into the maelstrom alongside the substance abuser.

I think there are many more solutions here than the one you're presenting.

It's not that simple for people to see into their own blind spots. And when they ask for help, you should at least make an attempt to give it before giving up.

Particularly in a situation where you've made it part of your internal choice to be that committed.

His buoy in this case, is her. I think he's made a grab for it.

 

[Sharon_]

I think there are many more solutions here than the one you're presenting.

Very true. Mine is based on years of experience and a highly developed instinct for self-preservation.

It's not that simple for people to see into their own blind spots.

By hiding his binge drinking, he's patently demonstrating this is not a blind spot.

And when they ask for help, you should at least make an attempt to give it before giving up.

Particularly in a situation where you've made it part of your internal choice to be that committed.

We agree.

His buoy in this case, is her. I think he's made a grab for it.

Unless she is an AA mentor with years of experience in the program or an accredited counselor with experience in substance abuse then she's an uninflated buoy. She can point him to AA or other substance abuse centers/therapists, but she can't save him.....and if she points him in that direction and he refuses to go, then her only option, IME, is to walk.

It's all very nice and natural to delude oneself into thinking, 'if I do this...if I'm more supportive...if I take on more of the load....if I..." But it won't work. Again, my opinion. Weigh it with the same credence one would take any other advice on a public forum

 

[celticsunspiral]

I understand where you are coming from, it is difficult to be put in that kind of stiuation. Currently I am in a very similar one, more vanilla though. Unfortunately, for me I don't think it is going to be resolved.

For the first 5 yrs my SO and I were together we had a good relationship, we had fun and worked together mostly it was good. I see now looking back that there were some warning signs (major mood swings) but at the time I glossed over them.

The next 5 years have become a spiraling downward trend and until recently, the past 6 months or so, I was allowing him to take me with him. He was diagnosed with diabetes and this has caused other issues. He basically refuses to take medicine and when his mother or I try to talk with him about it, he does the exact opposite. He has major mood swings, and disapears most nights for hours at a time. I started taking up the slack, I pay the bills, do laundry, clean house, and more. Because of his attitude, lack of effort in all aspects of our relationship I have started to feel like his mom, not his wife, and have lost most of the respect I had for him. I have tried talking with him and he just doesnt want to do the things he needs to do, in fact he will do the opposite on purpose.

Your relationship sounds like it has a good chance. I know you feel uncomfortable in the role he needs from you but he knows there is a problem and wants to fix it, he just feels he needs help. I know that because you both care for each other and are willing to work on it that you can and will make it through this bump in the road and come out the other side more committed and closer.

Know that there are many others out there in similar situations and you are not alone. Thoughts and hugs your way.

 

[Recidiva]

Very true. Mine is based on years of experience and a highly developed instinct for self-preservation.

By hiding his binge drinking, he's patently demonstrating this is not a blind spot.

We agree.

Unless she is an AA mentor with years of experience in the program or an accredited counselor with experience in substance abuse then she's an uninflated buoy. She can point him to AA or other substance abuse centers/therapists, but she can't save him.....and if she points him in that direction and he refuses to go, then her only option, IME, is to walk.

It's all very nice and natural to delude oneself into thinking, 'if I do this...if I'm more supportive...if I take on more of the load....if I..." But it won't work. Again, my opinion. Weigh it with the same credence one would take any other advice on a public forum

I'm not suggesting delusion.

I'm suggesting trying.

There's no reason why she couldn't gain the skills and perspective of an AA mentor. And they're worth having.

I don't really think I'm arguing with you, just providing more options. I think your path is valid and I included it in my original post. Yes, if it's too much weight and you're the uninflated buoy, bail. But sinking isn't a foregone conclusion yet. You're not asking questions any more when you're sunk, then you know. A good deep breath can help strategically.

I have seen enough people overcome addiction to believe it can be done. Not that it will, but that giving up because it's "too hard" to fight it isn't always in your best interest. And the fact is, people rarely give up addiction for themselves. They give it up because someone else gives enough of a damn about them to care. They give it up for someone else, and then they learn how to give it up for themselves.

I'd give the same advice if it were anyone who is family. Daughter, son, brother, sister, parents, self.

 

[cati]

Master has a few issues at present. He has a chronic health problem that is slowly improving but it has left him depressed. He has a history of depression (more than slightly bipolar in my opinion) and mild OCD that worsens when he is depressed. He is overweight and his medication and sedentary lifestyle caused by the health problem has left him bordering on obese. He has been to his GP recently about getting some therapy but has yet to receive his first appointment. Master has never had any kind of chronic physical health problem before and it has sapped his strength a lot, which upsets him. He has always been a big guy but he used to be strong with it. Now he feels like a feeble fatty.

and so he should under the circumstances.
he is working on getting an appointment for therapy, sometimes this can take a while. i think its more difficult for men to admit they have a problem and to seek help from outsiders.

I have supported him as best I can, listened when he wants to talk and let him be when he doesn't. I have cooked him healthy food and encouraged walks, sex exercise etc to get him back into shape. I have discovered that he has occasionally been binge eating/boozing behind my back.

Ok, so he "occasionally " binge eats or drinks, but doesn't do it "all" the time.
So I can't imagine he's a "closet" alcoholic, nor really a "secret" drinker because you find the evidence of his being bad. He doesn't want to eat or drink in front of you because he feels ashamed of himself. At least he isn't purging (or is that just a female thing) *s

You seem to be doing everything in your power to help him but it's taking it's toll.


I know his eating and drinking habits are strongly comfort motivated and when he is down, he couldn't give a shit about his diet or health. He always regrets these slip ups but lately there has been a new twist.

I'm listening...smiles.

Master has been encouraging me to 'nag' him. He wants me to speak up when he is eating too much or hasn't worked out in a few days as a part of my service. This sounds simple enough but it's causing friction because at this stage in the game, Master is far from accustomed to having his behaviour moderated by me. It also gets him down that he feels he has to ask me to keep an eye on him this way. He has lost his confidence as a dom somewhat because this weight problem and depression has basically decimated his self esteem - which has never been huge.

He wants proof that you still love him and if it's mothering he needs, try and give it to him. Something bigger is going on, quite obviously.


There is also an underlying tension caused by the fact that Master feels unattractive right now. I just want him to be happy and healthy and we both know that this isn't possible at his current weight. He also dislikes the way he now lacks strength and stamina. He is now convinced that I think he's fat and ugly, which is simply untrue.

Understandably, but you can't help him with this

I'm really not very good at playing Jiminy Cricket when he reaches for a cookie and it always makes him angry with himself that he is so 'weak' when it comes to food. He is hungry all the time and sits there clutching his stomach some evenings, wiling himself not to eat after I've fed him a large, wholesome dinner.

A little bit of drama to go with...
I think he's trying to pacify himself by eating. He sounds frustrated and bored with the whole thing likely wishes it would just go away.

I know there are no quick solutions here but I am finding it really tough to play drill seargent and in truth I feel more like I'm mothering him, which is no good for either of us because it makes him feel weak and disempowered and if I'm brutally honest, my respect for him is starting to suffer a little. I have always been a member of the 'if it needs fixing, suck it up and make the changes' brigade and I feel he should be more committed to his goals of weightloss and fitness rather than appointing me to nag all the time and cause friction between us.


Right, there are no quick solutions. Your nagging isn't going to help one iota, he might appreciate it for a second and then find it annoying whenever it suits him. He's looking for an easy way out and there just isn't any and I bet he knows this as well.
You want things to stop before they get much worse and you are frustrated and angry because this is not what you want or expected to happen.
I think he doesn't know how to fix himself and to admit there may be underlying issues.

Velvet, if I may say, I've gone through this myself recently. I've neglected my own health in much the same way this past year. Being nagged by members of my own family, just makes me want to tune them out. I appreciate their concern but I know the only one who is going to take care of me is me (hard lesson to learn, believe me) and only when the time is right and I've got my head together.
I can't beleive how often I neglect my health.
Sometimes we need that wake up call (ie) fear of stroke or heart attack, before anything gets done.

I know my Master loves me, just as you love yours....however in times of "ugliness" I need reassurance. I can't help that and I hate myself for needing it, shows I'm weak maybe? He expects people to be able to take care of "themselves" and feels he shouldn't have to micromanage. I know it sounds a bit cold...sigh

I'm guessing that since your Master has mood swings and is depressed right now, he can't help himself in the right way and that's where you come in by filling in the emotional gap. You mentioned his having a touch of OCD with his depression, is he taking any meds for that?

May I suggest a Zoloft cocktail followed by a Ritalin chaser? or something similar.
If he is the type of Dominant that I think he is, he may refuse out of stubborness.
Under all that Domliness is just man, an inner boy child, a person who doesn't know how to reach out without sacrificing who he thinks he is or that person you expect him to be. I dunno, I just thought I'd post this mess .....

 

[Sharon_]

I'm not suggesting delusion.

I'm suggesting trying.

There's no reason why she couldn't gain the skills and perspective of an AA mentor. And they're worth having.

I don't really think I'm arguing with you, just providing more options. I think your path is valid and I included it in my original post. Yes, if it's too much weight and you're the uninflated buoy, bail. But sinking isn't a foregone conclusion yet. You're not asking questions any more when you're sunk, then you know. A good deep breath can help strategically.

I have seen enough people overcome addiction to believe it can be done. Not that it will, but that giving up because it's "too hard" to fight it isn't always in your best interest. And the fact is, people rarely give up addiction for themselves. They give it up because someone else gives enough of a damn about them to care. They give it up for someone else, and then they learn how to give it up for themselves.

[...]

I couldn't disagree more strongly with your last two sentences. A functioning addict can be very charming, suave , attractive, but most important: manipulative; they have to be, that is how they acquire and maintain their array of enablers. By and large, addicts recover when they hit rock bottom. When they completely run out of enablers and are forced to face all the consequences related to their addiction. ~That~ is when they recover - if they don't die or go to jail, and I've been witness to both. It is one of the most difficult things in life to step back and watch a loved one fall into the abyss, but that's the only way one can truly help them...but this man is neither her child or her father so for her own sake, she should consider walking if he won't get help.

If one looks at the original post- "I know his eating and drinking habits are strongly comfort motivated"....making excuses for his drinking, that is textbook enabling. He's hiding his drinking - he knows he has a problem. He's putting his problem on her shoulders - 'I want you to nag me'...or rather, he's manipulating her into believing he's trying to deal with the issue. *I* see that ploy as just another con an addict runs so they can continue with their addiction while maintaining their enabler. I sincerely hope she urges him to go to AA and he goes....but the odds of that happening are stacked high against.

 

[catalina_francisco]

You know, it really doesn't work in either direction in my experience. I've seen people "quit smoking because Master refuses to let me" and the moment the relationship ends (and it usually does) the smoking is back with renewed vigor.

Yep, it is one of those things which no-one can do for you, and has to be done because the person in question can see and believe in the wisdom of it and accept the reality.

Catalina

 

[Evil_Geoff]

Understand that _my_ perspective is from someone who grew up with two active alcoholic parents, who found sobriety when he was a teenager. And someone dealing with depression and weight issues and diabetes in his own life.

Sharon_, for all her harshness, is spot on, Velvet. When it comes to alcoholism, most alcoholics will not quit until they hit rock bottom and are forced to quit. Some never do quit and drink themselves to death. A few very fortunate and dedicated souls realize they have a problem and get help before the alcoholism consumes and destroys their families and careers. This is a situation where "tough love" is required and the alcoholic must suffer the consequences of their actions or inaction in the case of NOT getting help.

And YOU, dear girl, need to get into Al-Anon, the support group for the adult spouses, family and SO's of alcoholics. You might not be able to get HIM to quit drinking, but you CAN get help and guidance on how to deal with it.

If he can't put the bottle down on his own, he needs Alcoholics Anonymous or a similar 12 Step Program, or professional counseling, and he needs to WANT to quit. If his desire isn't there, no detox program in the world will keep him sober.

I have Adult Onset (Type II) diabetes. At the time I was diagnosed with diabetes (about 6 years ago) I was pushing 300 pounds around. Currently I am at 250 and slowly working the weight down, I'm happy with a 5 - 10 lb net loss over a year. It crept up that way, it'll come off that way. I was on insulin for a while but I decided that because I had made myself diabetic, I had to own the disease and make myself better. Through learning how to eat smarter and making small changes in my habits, I am able to slowly lose weight, control the disease and use oral medication only. No more insulin shots.

I am fighting long term depression as well. I've gone to counseling but my counselor fired me after 2 sessions. *LOL* Seems he did not feel qualified or capable of dealing with someone who is openly a sadist into the BDSM lifestyle. And before anyone suggests consulting the Kink Aware Professionals list maintained by the NCSF, I've already looked and the closest KAP counselors are in Charlotte, NC. At today's gasoline prices I am NOT doing that commute. 4 hours of driving for a 1 hour counseling sessions seems silly. So I am searching on my own for someone local who will assist me.

Like the diabetes, the depression is MY frigging problem. I got myself this way, I have to get myself better. It will take professional help to get me where I want to be. Owning my problem and making the effort and doing things on my own has helped me. Daily affirmations, forcing myself to go out and be social, taking one day at a time, sometimes one hour or one minute at a time, I can (and do) get through it all. I am NOT where I want to be emotionally but I am better than I was 6 months ago.

Velvet, you are in a difficult place. HE is in a worse and darker place. But he put himself there and he has to make the effort to get out. You can help, you can hold the rope and reel him in... but he has to climb the ladder or steps back up out of the pool on his own. If you pull him out as soon as you let go he will fall back in. That's the insidious nature of mental health and addiction problems. You can force the drugs or sobriety for a time. But when left to his own devices, unless he wishes to make the necessary changes, he WILL slip back into those old habits.

I was taught that the first and most import duty to instill in any slave in my service is "Protect The Property!" It is your responsibility to yourself AND to him because if you don't take care of yourself, you cannot possibly take care of him. Get yourself help, protect his property for the time when he can use it again properly. I wish you much love and luck in dealing with his issues. And don't hesitate to email or PM or IM me anytime.

 

[Netzach]

Geoff I agree with you. But you're not saying that if people aren't the picture perfect image of mental health they're something you must FLEE in self preservation. There are gray areas and degrees in your picture to some measure.

Most depressed people are depressed in an episodic fashion. You don't need to be bipolar for ups and downs.

I guess having been physically ill myself in an open-ended way, I am very sensitive to the idea that if I were mentally ill the wisdom would automatically be "ditch her." That's completely horseshit if you're serious about any KIND of enduring relationship and not just your own jollies and ups.

I don't know anyone fit for a relationship if depression takes you out of the game automatically.

I definitely agree that AA and Al-Anon may have a place here, but even more so antidepressants, therapists all that. I also have run into the kink-unfriendly therapist problem, but I found that when things were really really bad dis-integrating my sexuality from therapy still had behavioral benefit for me - it's OK to just do "basics".

 

[Netzach]

Yep, it is one of those things which no-one can do for you, and has to be done because the person in question can see and believe in the wisdom of it and accept the reality.

Catalina

That would also be nice if it were a neat straight line, but Recidiva covered the way it actually happens in reality so well I don't think I need to. We're in agreement on this one.

 

[intothewoods]

I really agree with Netz and Catalina's posts. I've followed your posts for a while now Velvet, and think there's a lot of love between you and your Master. Mister Man also gets down on himself because of his weight, and I can totally see how something like that would affect your M's feeling of self-worth and confidence in his Domliness.

I think the question of whether it's service is less important than is it working for you. Er, didn't mean to sound like Dr. Phil just there.

Now, I'm not a slave, so take my approach with a grain of salt, but here's what we've done recently, as Mister Man was recently diagnosed pre-diabetic and wanted to get serious about his diet. He's already started walking more because he walks to work.

Okay, so I basically made it a joint effort. We shopped together, and I helped plan his menus for the week. I cook when I'm there. I went over all of the diabetes websites and gave him a basic rundown on nutrition. And I'm eating whatever he's eating - it's not a diet for him. The two of you should throw out all of the crap together.

Here's the thing though - Mister Man is motivated right now, because the diagnosis scared the shit out of him. Your M is depressed, and not so motivated. I think the real issue is probably his depression right now, and even the most slaveliest slave in the world can't really fix that for him. Perhaps you can suggest that you two see a therapist together? And maybe a nutritionist as well? Are there any other paths to motivation that you see?

 

[Evil_Geoff]

Geoff I agree with you. But you're not saying that if people aren't the picture perfect image of mental health they're something you must FLEE in self preservation.

I don't know anyone fit for a relationship if depression takes you out of the game automatically.

Indeed. If depression automatically disqualifies me, I know a lot of submissives and/or slaves who will be disappointed I'm not in the game.

But sometimes it IS necessary to let go and walk away. I'm not saying it is automatically required, I'm not hinting that it's the preferred course of action. When dealing with an alcoholic or other substance abuser, or a mentally ill person who refuses to get treatment, sometimes it's the last thing you can do to help them. When the last enabler stops enabling their illness or addiction, stops covering for them, stops making excuses... when the job fires them, when the family turns their backs and stops helping with bills and such, when there is no place else for them to turn, no one else to con, then and only then will most alcoholics seek help. It's that hard SLAM at bottom of the pit that finally jars them into wanting to get better. Sometimes.

The mentally ill can be just as tough to help as alcoholics. They have to WANT the help to get better. I had to lose janey before I sought counseling for my depression. 'Nuff said.

 

[Netzach]

And I never said walk away because one's partner is depressed...she specifically said "moodiness" aka swings. That's unstable, IMHO, and not the kind of drama I need or want in my life, certainly not from someone who takes it upon themselves to be "in charge".

Huh?

Swings are depression. Instability, ugliness, all that mess. Depression isn't this neat mild manageable version of the beast, with "swings" being something else.

 

[Netzach]

Indeed. If depression automatically disqualifies me, I know a lot of submissives and/or slaves who will be disappointed I'm not in the game.

But sometimes it IS necessary to let go and walk away. I'm not saying it is automatically required, I'm not hinting that it's the preferred course of action. When dealing with an alcoholic or other substance abuser, or a mentally ill person who refuses to get treatment, sometimes it's the last thing you can do to help them. When the last enabler stops enabling their illness or addiction, stops covering for them, stops making excuses... when the job fires them, when the family turns their backs and stops helping with bills and such, when there is no place else for them to turn, no one else to con, then and only then will most alcoholics seek help. It's that hard SLAM at bottom of the pit that finally jars them into wanting to get better. Sometimes.

The mentally ill can be just as tough to help as alcoholics. They have to WANT the help to get better. I had to lose janey before I sought counseling for my depression. 'Nuff said.

Yes. In relationships, I guess my philosophy is to do everything you can till you can't.

 

[Primalex]

Thoughts?

Weight Watchers.

Someone else will play the drill sergeant.