Shame and Humiliation

[saphicsub]

Ive just heard an interesting article on BBC radio 2 here in the UK.

Some one is propsing that criminals convicted of less serious crimes, who are ordered to carry out their sentance doing community work should in future be made to wear some form of costume which will draw attention from members of the public and bring shame and humiliation on them as part of their punishment.

Naturally the proposal was well debated from both sides yet i can only imagain that the only winners in all of this will be the growing hoard of smart ass human rights lawyers who will have a field day.

Its proposed that male offenders be made to wear highly visable girly pink overalls.

I cant stop laughing !!!!!

 

[catalina_francisco]

Sounds like an idea some idiot on too much money dreamed up while filing their nails. Personally I think if they are given community service as a sentence that should be enough...if it isn't, then the responsibility lies with the legal system to attach more appropriate sentencing. From a social justice background, I can only see more problems coming from such a scheme if it were made a reality, not to mention it really isn't encouraging good community spirit which I would think was more conducive to stopping crime than encouraging the public to take part in further punishing someone in a way which could not be guided by law, nor controlled if a situation got way out of hand.

Catalina

 

[Chicklet]

It was already being done to discipline Thai law enforcement officers.

One article
I always found it hard to imagine Thai policemen wearing Hello Kitty armbands as a mark of shame for wayward officers.

Evidently most policemen did too, because Thailand's top cops decided Friday to abandon the idea.

It seems there was a rebellion in the macho ranks, as well as outrage on Hello Kitty Web sites.

You have to understand that it's embarrassing for our 30- to 40-year-old policemen to be made to wear this girly, pink armband," conceded police Maj. Weeraprach Wongrat, of the Crime Suppression Division, whose idea it was in the first place.

"It also attracted so much attention – a lot of praise, but a lot of criticism," he said Friday. The Thai police found themselves blasted by Hello Kitty lovers for using their cute icon as a means of punishment.

"We are concerned about the image of police as much as that of Hello Kitty," Weeraprach said. "We decided to drop the plan."

He said they would be looking at other designs.

That plan had been to order offending policemen – and most police officers here are men – to wear a pink armband with a Hello Kitty face and a pair of linked hearts as a disciplinary measure – if the officer was late to work, parks in the wrong place or left his desk while on duty.

"It was meant to be a moral armband for our police," said Weeraprach, "to teach them not to overlook minor mistakes. The armband reminded them that they were being watched." A mark of humiliation, in other words.

But now it is Weeraprach who is a little humiliated.

The Crime Suppression Division has a new commander, Weeraprach's boss, who trained with the American Secret Service and the Canadian police, and who has pledged to modernize a force that has been accused of widespread corruption and extrajudicial killings.

The new commander is said to be a believer in behavioral science and in the "broken window theory," according to which small changes can have large effects. He saw pink armbands as a start. Now it's back to the drawing board.

http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/070810/070810_hellokitty_vmed_9a.standard.jpg
http://jalopnik.com/assets/resources/2007/08/1026699120_3a81e0c23a.jpg

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I do think that there are a lot of convicts these days who have no shame and no remorse. Every day you see people in the news laughing and sneering despite having committed crimes that have harmed others or robbed society in some way. In some gang cultures a criminal record is a status symbol, as are ASBOs (anti-social behaviour orders). I genuinely think that wearing pink overalls for community service would deter people who think crime is cool from petty vandalism and thuggery more effectively than many other measures.

People might scoff but when you think how effective measures such as wearing a sign around the neck saying 'I am a liar' or 'I am a thief' were in Victorian schools for making somebody genuinely ashamed of what they had done and aware that their character and self worth had been damaged because of it. I think that worse ideas have been broached (like the other recent one of 'rewarding' offenders for turning up for community service with no absences or lateness - thereby effectively paying them for carrying out their sentence).

I think that many of these people could use a little humility and the ones that don't will be big enough to be equanimitous about it. Pink overalls might get the militant gays out saying that the object of the exercise is to make people look homosexual, thereby implying that it's a bad thing to be gay. They may have a point too.

In a similar vein, a scheme has been started in my area where convenience stores have problems with teenagers hanging around in packs intimidating others into buying them cigarettes and alcohol. They litter everywhere, they piss up the walls, they fumble and fuck in alleys, they're feral, disenfranchised moral vacuums with (in all likelihood) parents who started out in pretty much the same way. One small victory has been where stores have started playing classical music out through speakers by the doors. The result? The teenagers won't hang around there because their poxy mobile phones aren't loud enough to drown out Beethoven. I think it's brilliant. The young worship the Great Consumer God Of Conformity and they're very loyal. I think they would be susceptible to pink overalls.

Another simple but brilliant idea adopted in my area is blue lighting in public toilets. It is impossible to see ones veins under a blue light, so the toilets don't become shooting galleries.

 

[twysted73]

Ive just heard an interesting article on BBC radio 2 here in the UK.


Its proposed that male offenders be made to wear highly visable girly pink overalls.

I cant stop laughing !!!!!

Umm...we already have a few prisons that make the inmates wear pink.
http://isaacs.newsvine.com/_news/2008/01/05/1205899-i-think-its-time-for-prison-pink

Our prison systems (as a whole) aren't doing enough to dissuade and discourage prisoners from repeating.
Nowadays it's a sign of manhood in certain cities for gangs to be put away.
Your level of toughness and respect based upon your years in.
Cereal and repeat rapists/child molesters use prisons as if they have revolving doors.
"Rehabilitation" is so lame that the term
found jesus" is almost a joke. It seems to be an automatic get out of jail free card.

Most criminals come out stronger (weight rooms and exercise routines), smarter (networking with other like-minded criminals), and more dangerous then when they went in.

We're too "PC" friendly and too concerned about human rights about people who are obviously not nearly concerned about those of others else they'd not be in there.

Why should they get better treatment then their victims?

 

[Netzach]

Says a lot about what we think of femininity as a culture, doesn't it?

There is a certain shade of pink, a precise one, which has a definite calming effect on people, though, so I could see maybe making that a color worn and painted in corrections environments.

 

[graceanne]

Why don't we just put them in stocks and arm everyone with rotten veggies? Or start putting scarlet A's on them? Maybe we should tattoo "I'm a criminal" on their forheads.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Maybe we should tattoo "I'm a criminal" on their forheads.

'Asshat' would be more accurate and use less ink.

 

[YourCaptor]

This would probably create a social divide, not healthy for the unity of anything.

 

[twysted73]

This would probably create a social divide, not healthy for the unity of anything.

I cannot believe someone who would cross a line and intentionally end another's life for nothing more then the theft of an XBox or ruin a child's life by ruining the child sexually could ever be counted on to make the right, ethical choice thereafter.

Divide? I would prefer to be on a different planet then those types.

 

[YourCaptor]

I cannot believe someone who would cross a line and intentionally end another's life for nothing more then the theft of an XBox or ruin a child's life by ruining the child sexually could ever be counted on to make the right, ethical choice thereafter.

Divide? I would prefer to be on a different planet then those types.

Those guys usually don't do community service.

 

[snowbyte]

I like the idea of putting a wall up around Manhattan and putting them all in there. Of course, if we throw in the lawyers and politicians (as should be done) there might not be enough room for the serial killers, murders, rapists, and pedos. Then again, there's probably a not insignificant amount of overlap between the two groups, so it may work out after all.

 

[twysted73]

I like the idea of putting a wall up around Manhattan and putting them all in there. Of course, if we throw in the lawyers and politicians (as should be done) there might not be enough room for the serial killers, murders, rapists, and pedos. Then again, there's probably a not insignificant amount of overlap between the two groups, so it may work out after all.

Good idea. But if we need to extract someone, I don't think Kurt Russel'll always be available, ya know?

 

[rosco rathbone]

I like the idea of putting a wall up around Manhattan and putting them all in there. Of course, if we throw in the lawyers and politicians (as should be done) there might not be enough room for the serial killers, murders, rapists, and pedos. Then again, there's probably a not insignificant amount of overlap between the two groups, so it may work out after all.

This isn't 1978 anymore. Manhattan is full of yuppies and hipsters now, not perps.

 

[Netzach]

This isn't 1978 anymore. Manhattan is full of yuppies and hipsters now, not perps.

But that would make it even more fun.


insert many eyerollie things.

 

[Netzach]

I cannot believe someone who would cross a line and intentionally end another's life for nothing more then the theft of an XBox or ruin a child's life by ruining the child sexually could ever be counted on to make the right, ethical choice thereafter.

Divide? I would prefer to be on a different planet then those types.

Considering how many people on death row have been exonerated by DNA evidence years after they were put away, I think that's great. Add insult to injury, because surely NO innocent people ever go to jail.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Says a lot about what we think of femininity as a culture, doesn't it?

There is a certain shade of pink, a precise one, which has a definite calming effect on people, though, so I could see maybe making that a color worn and painted in corrections environments.

Good point here.

 

[twysted73]

Considering how many people on death row have been exonerated by DNA evidence years after they were put away, I think that's great. Add insult to injury, because surely NO innocent people ever go to jail.

Very good point.

Likewise, "never do the guilty go free".



it's an imperfect system designed by imperfect beings.
What more can be expected?

What I was getting at was this: There aren't nearly as many things to dissuade and deter as I feel the human nature needs in-order to be effective.
If you have two parents with two children. One parent is structured, the other very lenient in punishment.

Hypothetically, which child do you think will grow to be unruly?

7 out of 10 times.

 

[Mistress_Vix]

bump

*lurking and reading*

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Says a lot about what we think of femininity as a culture, doesn't it?

Nah. Just says a lot about what macho, serial criminal thugs think of femininity as a culture, or homosexuality for that matter. It would be their own prejudice and bigotry that made it a 'punishment' or 'embarassment.'

Those guys usually don't do community service.

Absolutely true. Think we may be straying from the point a bit if we're heading for a debate about the death penalty. Trust me, there are too many strong opinions around here for it to end well.

Was going to say 'best to live and let live' where view like that are concerned but that may land me into deeper trouble.

Personally, I don't believe that the death penalty is a good idea. The judicial system (USA, UK or wherever) is not foolproof enough and the squillions of dollars/pounds spent on the scores of appeals a death row inmate is entitled to eclipse the cost of keeping him/her in jail for life in many cases. OTOH some people like that Fritzl bloke I could happily throw the switch on without hesitation. Not much margin for error of judgement there.

*opens flame proof brolly*

 

[minx1]

Personally I think if they are given community service as a sentence that should be enough...if it isn't, then the responsibility lies with the legal system to attach more appropriate sentencing.
Catalina

I completely agree with this

Says a lot about what we think of femininity as a culture, doesn't it?

and this

and besides a pink armband isn't exactly a long term strategy for the punishment and rehabilitaion of offenders.

Todays token embarrasment will only become tomorrows credibility amongst their peers. It solves nothing.

 

[saphicsub]

Nah. Just says a lot about what macho, serial criminal thugs think of femininity as a culture, or homosexuality for that matter. It would be their own prejudice and bigotry that made it a 'punishment' or 'embarassment.'

So as submissives, what have we "done wrong" to cause us our "punishment" or "embarrasment" which we need and crave?

We must have a guilty concience over something to make the whole thing work for us.

Maybe like dreams, its better not to analyse, not to try and understand lest the dream be broken and the magic is gone?

 

[minx1]

So as submissives, what have we "done wrong" to cause us our "punishment" or "embarrasment" which we need and crave?

We must have a guilty concience over something to make the whole thing work for us.

Maybe like dreams, its better not to analyse, not to try and understand lest the dream be broken and the magic is gone?

I'm not sure its true to say that in general subs need and crave punishment or embarrasment.

Punishment or being humiliated has worked for me in the past because I have done something to deserve it. But I personally don't crave the feeling of having dome something wrong.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

So as submissives, what have we "done wrong" to cause us our "punishment" or "embarrasment" which we need and crave?

We must have a guilty concience over something to make the whole thing work for us.

Maybe like dreams, its better not to analyse, not to try and understand lest the dream be broken and the magic is gone?

I understand what you're saying but Master and I don't need to set up scenarios where I need 'punishing' simply because he wants to get nasty and I want to let him. There is no need for a guilty conscience. He causes me pain and humiliation because he enjoys it and it turns him on. I enjoy it for its own sake but often the 'humiliation' factor lies in knowing I enjoy it even if I'm being a 'good girl.' Hope that makes sense.

Of course, if he sees fit to punish me for a genuine failure in service, Master will ensure that I don't enjoy it on any level. He's very good at finding things that I genuinely dislike as opposed to impactplay, for example, which I enjoy 90% of the time.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Todays token embarrasment will only become tomorrows credibility amongst their peers. It solves nothing.

Oh yeah, I completely agree. All these ideas are gimmicks and as such, they have a short life span.