On the basic skill of writing.

[Betticus]

It strikes me in a sad way to compare the general written skills of people today as compared to just a generation or two ago.

I'm watching a history channel program on the civil war and the narrator reads back bits of letters written by some of the soldiers. They convey so much more meaning with their words than I can sense from our modern society.

The ones that move me the most are some of the letters written back to loved ones in WWII. Some of the love letters that men sent home which were their last.

Do you suppose that there is so much more meaning in those letters because the writers wrote each one as if it would be their last?

 

[Betticus]

Here is a site that documents some heartfelt letters.

http://www.cbn.com/special/WW2letters/index.aspx

The dear X thread is very well used. I wonder what would happen if we started a thread for heartfelt love letters written by our single members to their future partner that they are still seeking.

An open letter sent into the future. A Dear future subbie/top thing.

 

[Homburg]

Do you suppose that there is so much more meaning in those letters because the writers wrote each one as if it would be their last?

Well, quality of education vis a vis the written word was more serious back then. Structure and style was more heavily drilled into young'uns. That said, there is selection going on in those shows. They are trying to tug at your heart strings, so they are going to choose the letters that are best written. Half-literate people have been writing letters for as long as letters have been being written. They just don't get their work on TV.

 

[Betticus]

Well, quality of education vis a vis the written word was more serious back then. Structure and style was more heavily drilled into young'uns. That said, there is selection going on in those shows. They are trying to tug at your heart strings, so they are going to choose the letters that are best written. Half-literate people have been writing letters for as long as letters have been being written. They just don't get their work on TV.

True.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Moby-Dick.

That book could not get written today.

 

[intothewoods]

I wonder what would happen if we started a thread for heartfelt love letters written by our single members to their future partner that they are still seeking.

An open letter sent into the future. A Dear future subbie/top thing.

Oh God. Please, no.

 

[Netzach]

I actually wish that some of the less well-educated ones got more airtime.

And I always point people toward James Joyce's letters to Norah. They're smutty, filthy, brilliant but very earthy. And it's important to remember she was a barely-literate bakers' daughter - she did poorly in school, she's the antithesis of the literary wife. I guess he found someone who would not fawn over him for the reasons everyone else did.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I think it is symptomatic of the times we live in. Most things are instant gratification and fast paced. In times past letters were often the only way to communicate with someone you were not in the immediate vicinity of...that communication had to convey a lot through the written word which today can be conveyed in quick emails, on the phone, IM, but often to a lot lesser and/or more time economic ways. I know that emails I receive are nothing in content like the penpal and snail mail letters I have received from friends before the huge popularity and easy access age of cyberspace. Even just talking of daily events in people's lives has been reduced to a line or 2 where in the past might have been a paragraph or 4...even here, the more wordy posts often attract groans and reprimands from other posters accompanied with a plea for people to say what they want to say quickly and in very few words. I think we are losing a lot, mostly in communication skills but also other areas, and it is beginning to show in many other ways within society and our lives.

Catalina

 

[jockdom]

A lot of these letters especially in the civil war were dictated to officers or educated comrades by men who were illiterate.

 

[midwestyankee]

I actually wish that some of the less well-educated ones got more airtime.

And I always point people toward James Joyce's letters to Norah. They're smutty, filthy, brilliant but very earthy. And it's important to remember she was a barely-literate bakers' daughter - she did poorly in school, she's the antithesis of the literary wife. I guess he found someone who would not fawn over him for the reasons everyone else did.

Thanks for the reminder. I'd forgotten about these and ought to find a copy for some enjoyable reading this summer.

 

[kiten69]

An open letter sent into the future. A Dear future subbie/top thing.

*gets out an extra large box of tissues*

With all the girlies running around here. . .we'll need it if you start a thread like that. . .

 

[madetotakeit]

I believe it is a combination of things. Certainly the quicker pace of modern society encourages succinct communication. With so many things going on people try to accomplish as much possible in as little time possible. Our education system (at least here in the states) leaves a lot to be desired. So much concentration is put into passing standardized tests that schools rely on for funding that appreciation of details is falling by the wayside. In a time when hand-held game systems are de rigeuer, the enjoyment found in the written word is fading. Encouragement of expression is hindered as well. I believe that people in today's society are discouraged in stating how they feel. Too few people tell others how they really feel. There is more self-censorship.

Going back to Betticus' original question. I think that there the possibility of the letter being the last one was a strong motivator in the language used. The thought of never seeing someone you love again brings out the emotional side. Suddenly what really matters comes to light. It is not the day to day occurrences that are important, but the impact of that person and the feelings they inspire. If it will be the last moments you share with someone, you do not want to leave anything out and you want it to last as long as possible.

I try to always let those I care about know how I feel. More often than not I am met with slight embarrassment and discomfort from the receiver. People are simply unaccustomed to accepting expression of emotion. I continue to do it anyway.

 

[Homburg]

...even here, the more wordy posts often attract groans and reprimands from other posters accompanied with a plea for people to say what they want to say quickly and in very few words. I think we are losing a lot, mostly in communication skills but also other areas, and it is beginning to show in many other ways within society and our lives.

Catalina

This drives me up a wall. How long does it take to read a post that is more than a paragraph long? How hard is it to keep something in your brain for that long?

We have moved from a culture in which there are wonderfully literate people in the minority, and illiterate people in th majority, to one where you have merely literate people in the minority, and half-literate people in the majority. Sure, literacy is more common, but the upper end is getting ever thinner.

I know in my own life, whenever I want to remind myself to the standards to which I should aspire, I read the letters of Thomas Jefferson, and his peers.

 

[intothewoods]

I think it is symptomatic of the times we live in. Most things are instant gratification and fast paced. In times past letters were often the only way to communicate with someone you were not in the immediate vicinity of...that communication had to convey a lot through the written word which today can be conveyed in quick emails, on the phone, IM, but often to a lot lesser and/or more time economic ways. I know that emails I receive are nothing in content like the penpal and snail mail letters I have received from friends before the huge popularity and easy access age of cyberspace. Even just talking of daily events in people's lives has been reduced to a line or 2 where in the past might have been a paragraph or 4...even here, the more wordy posts often attract groans and reprimands from other posters accompanied with a plea for people to say what they want to say quickly and in very few words. I think we are losing a lot, mostly in communication skills but also other areas, and it is beginning to show in many other ways within society and our lives.

Catalina

I agree with most of your post, but as to the bolded part, I don't recall anyone complaining about someone's actual post. I do recall complaints about certain reposts of long articles, but that's because they were both long and poorly written!

Actually, that is the sad part. Some people either write in text/IM speech, in which case I have no clue what they're saying half the time, or they're wordy, but with nothing substantive to the extra words. I'm absolutely willing to "go the extra mile" and read something long, or see a long movie (to add another example), but it's obnoxious to read or see something which you get the sense that the author/director just wanted to hear himself speak. I'm thinking of, say, Bill Clinton's autobiography, for example.

 

[DVS]

Well, quality of education vis a vis the written word was more serious back then. Structure and style was more heavily drilled into young'uns. That said, there is selection going on in those shows. They are trying to tug at your heart strings, so they are going to choose the letters that are best written. Half-literate people have been writing letters for as long as letters have been being written. They just don't get their work on TV.

This is true, plus the soldiers who went to WWI and WWII were mostly older than in recent wars. WWII drafted men up to the age of 45, but most were in their mid to upper 20s. Some officers were in their 30s.

In the Viet Nam war, 18 was the starting age for the draft, and I don't remember for sure, but I think after 26, you were exempt. So, the soldier's average age was about 20.

Older men have more structured emotions, and they also were more likely to have families that they left behind. Today, the idea behind the younger soldier is to get them at the prime of life, physically, and because of their age, maybe not as emotionally attached. Of course, there are exceptions in all cases.

 

[Homburg]

This is true, plus the soldiers who went to WWI and WWII were mostly older than in recent wars. WWII drafted men up to the age of 45, but most were in their mid to upper 20s. Some officers were in their 30s.

Excellent point, as was the rest of the post. The downward age creep could be as responsible as anything else.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I agree with most of your post, but as to the bolded part, I don't recall anyone complaining about someone's actual post.

It happens. I/we have been told off for it (and other things like being happy and happy in our relationship and daring to post in that style...and no, I won't out those who have been the main ones responsible) often throughout the years we have been here...come to think of it, Pure has also been on the receiving end of being lectured for not keeping posts to 1-4 lines on occasion. Seems to come and go in waves.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

This drives me up a wall. How long does it take to read a post that is more than a paragraph long? How hard is it to keep something in your brain for that long?

We have moved from a culture in which there are wonderfully literate people in the minority, and illiterate people in th majority, to one where you have merely literate people in the minority, and half-literate people in the majority. Sure, literacy is more common, but the upper end is getting ever thinner.

I know in my own life, whenever I want to remind myself to the standards to which I should aspire, I read the letters of Thomas Jefferson, and his peers.

Yup...it sort of falls under that obnoxious list of 'should and should not's' which some in prominent and not so prominent positions have devised. I saw a story on TV this week about a parent restricting their child's use of TV and computer. The child was allowed one hour a day and had to choose if that hour was of TV or computer, not an hour each. The child in question was not just mindlessly staring at the screen but was actually more inclined to watch documentaries around science, animals, history etc., and use the computer to further research these topics. The person directing the TV program and who was supposedly so clever was championing the parent and saying they were absolutely correct to be limiting the child...I had to wonder than why they didn't tell them they also were limited to an hour of reading a book a day?

The world is becoming full of blanket shoulds without looking at the detail and context....TV documentaries and research on the internet IMHO would be something I would encourage in a child who was keen to learn, just as when I was growing up we were encouraged to read...it is just another form of gaining knowledge but because those in positions of power are still not comfortable with the concept, technological means of learning are viewed as bad no matter how they are used. Problem is, these people have forgotten to use their brains and step outside the box they are familiar with.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

The TV junkies I know were ALL the kids whose viewing was limited - they're the people who HAD to tape X files or Buffy or West Wing or whatever the hell. I watch minimal TV and I grew up with soaps, gameshows, bad talk shows, and whatever 24/7 on.

The one downside I guess is that I'm fascinated by the worst of the worst at times Commercials, informercials, televangelists - if and when I do watch.

 

[intothewoods]

It happens. I/we have been told off for it (and other things like being happy and happy in our relationship and daring to post in that style...and no, I won't out those who have been the main ones responsible) often throughout the years we have been here...come to think of it, Pure has also been on the receiving end of being lectured for not keeping posts to 1-4 lines on occasion. Seems to come and go in waves.

Catalina

Lol, Pure's writing style is certainly the most unique I've ever seen, but I wouldn't have the chutzpah to question it.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Lol, Pure's writing style is certainly the most unique I've ever seen, but I wouldn't have the chutzpah to question it.

LOL, I sometimes think it is more about him confusing the heck out of some people and their not being able to cope with that...he isn't short of a brain cell or two, and does like deviously exploring the mind, emotions and reactions.

Catalina

 

[Breaker_Morant]

In my opinion, the best love letter ever.

Going back to Betticus' original question. I think that there the possibility of the letter being the last one was a strong motivator in the language used. The thought of never seeing someone you love again brings out the emotional side. Suddenly what really matters comes to light. It is not the day to day occurrences that are important, but the impact of that person and the feelings they inspire. If it will be the last moments you share with someone, you do not want to leave anything out and you want it to last as long as possible.

July 14, 1861
Camp Clark, Washington

My very dear Sarah:
The indications are very strong that we shall move in a few days—perhaps tomorrow. Lest I should not be able to write again, I feel impelled to write a few lines that may fall under your eye when I shall be no more . . .

I have no misgivings about, or lack of confidence in the cause in which I am engaged, and my courage does not halt or falter. I know how strongly American Civilization now leans on the triumph of the Government and how great a debt we owe to those who went before us through the blood and sufferings of the Revolution. And I am willing—perfectly willing—to lay down all my joys in this life, to help maintain this Government, and to pay that debt . . .

Sarah my love for you is deathless, it seems to bind me with mighty cables that nothing but Omnipotence could break; and yet my love of Country comes over me like a strong wind and bears me unresistibly on with all these chains to the battle field.

The memories of the blissful moments I have spent with you come creeping over me, and I feel most gratified to God and to you that I have enjoyed them for so long. And hard it is for me to give them up and burn to ashes the hopes of future years, when, God willing, we might still have lived and loved together, and seen our sons grown up to honorable manhood, around us. I have, I know, but few and small claims upon Divine Providence, but something whispers to me—perhaps it is the wafted prayer of my little Edgar, that I shall return to my loved ones unharmed. If I do not my dear Sarah, never forget how much I love you, and when my last breath escapes me on the battle field, it will whisper your name. Forgive my many faults and the many pains I have caused you. How thoughtless and foolish I have often times been! How gladly would I wash out with my tears every little spot upon your happiness . . .

But, O Sarah! If the dead can come back to this earth and flit unseen around those they loved, I shall always be near you; in the gladdest days and in the darkest nights . . . always, always, and if there be a soft breeze upon your cheek, it shall be my breath, as the cool air fans your throbbing temple, it shall be my spirit passing by. Sarah do not mourn me dead; think I am gone and wait for thee, for we shall meet again . . .

Sullivan Ballou was killed a week later at the first Battle of Bull Run, July 21, 1861.

http://www.pbs.org/civilwar/war/ballou_letter.html

(it still draws a tear or two)

 

[kiten69]

Sullivan Ballou was killed a week later at the first Battle of Bull Run, July 21, 1861.

http://www.pbs.org/civilwar/war/ballou_letter.html

(it still draws a tear or two)

Wow. . .

 

[Homburg]

The TV junkies I know were ALL the kids whose viewing was limited - they're the people who HAD to tape X files or Buffy or West Wing or whatever the hell. I watch minimal TV and I grew up with soaps, gameshows, bad talk shows, and whatever 24/7 on.

The one downside I guess is that I'm fascinated by the worst of the worst at times Commercials, informercials, televangelists - if and when I do watch.

I'm in the same boat. I avoid TV, but can get sucked in by the oddest things. And I love a good commercial. I will sit and watch the Clio Awards and not mind the time wasted.

-----

July 14, 1861
Camp Clark, Washington

My very dear Sarah:

*snip*

But, O Sarah! If the dead can come back to this earth and flit unseen around those they loved, I shall always be near you; in the gladdest days and in the darkest nights . . . always, always, and if there be a soft breeze upon your cheek, it shall be my breath, as the cool air fans your throbbing temple, it shall be my spirit passing by. Sarah do not mourn me dead; think I am gone and wait for thee, for we shall meet again . . .

Sullivan Ballou was killed a week later at the first Battle of Bull Run, July 21, 1861.

http://www.pbs.org/civilwar/war/ballou_letter.html

(it still draws a tear or two)

Beautiful. Thank you for posting this.

 

[jockdom]

I think part of the problem goes back to child hood, when I was a nipper my ma used to read me a story almost every night and I hardly watched the idiot box. Now The tv/Playstation/dvd has taken the place of the parent and the art of story telling is forever lost! I fondly remember Watershipdown, the hobbit and The last of the mohicans.