my beef with politics

[rengadeirishman]

forgive me if im a little unclear, i've ingested a large quality of whiskey, but my problem with politics is thus, and let me preface this with the fact that i have worked for the obama campaign.

people talk about the importance of diversity and suchlike, and i agree, but when people i know say that, "It's time for non white male president" i ask, why?

before i am crucified, allow me to state my beef. Yes, america has been presided over by white men since its inception. But so many people i know go on and on about how we need to have non white male president. I disagree, based on the fact that people's gender and skin color have no impact whatsoever on their ability to lead and make decisions. It seems to me, that while people are saying that everyone is equal, saying that we need to have a different color or gender as chief executive says the opposite, it seems to me that it says that a woman or a black man is better suited to lead this nation because they are not a white man.

Do i have faith in Obama? absolutely i do, i went and worked for his campaign prior to the maryland primary. Do i think he's better then McCain because he's black? not remotely, i think he's better because of a more even temperment and his espousement of policy closer to my own.

saying that someone is better to do something because they are of a different gender and color then they're predecessors smacks heavily to me of sexism and racism, and i do not support such things.

alright, feel free to string me up and call me rascist now.

 

[scheherazade_79]

I don't think you're racist.

How would the nation react if, after Obama had served 4 years in office, someone turned around and said: "It's about time we had a white President now."

My guess is that people would be in uproar. So why is it ok to do it the way round?

 

[rengadeirishman]

I don't think you're racist.

How would the nation react if, after Obama had served 4 years in office, someone turned around and said: "It's about time we had a white President now."

My guess is that people would be in uproar. So why is it ok to do it the way round?

thats what im sayin' no person is more or less qualified to lead the country based on whether they posess a penis or a vagina or if they have more less melanin in their skin.

 

[starrkers]

thats what im sayin' no person is more or less qualified to lead the country based on whether they posess a penis or a vagina or if they have more less melanin in their skin.

If anyone calls that racist with a straight face, they should immediately be certified.

 

[Edward Teach]

Ren, I don't think you are racist either. Race is going to enter the election and I think it’s healthy to talk about it.

Most of Obama's supporters are supporting him because he is an inspiring speaker and personality with great potential as President.

A lot of black's are understandably supporting him because he is black.

Some white's are supporting him simply because they think it's cool to support a black.

If he gets beat it will be because something happens to cause a backlash among moderate whites. I think a couple of scenarios could bring that about.

1. If some black leaders give in to the temptation of grabbing the spotlight
for their own selfish purposes and therefore cause him to be perceived as
the "black candidate" concerned only for so called "black issues" there
will be a backlash among moderate whites.

2. If anything happens to stir black's to large demonstrations there will also
be a backlash among moderate whites.

The Obama people have been pretty effective, so far, in keeping control, but it is going to be more difficult in the General Election. When the real campaign starts there will be a concerted effort by the Right to get racial issues stirred up. They have already said that they will make the Swift Boat ads look like Public Service Announcements.

I am registered “unaffiliated” but I will be voting for whichever Democrat is nominated.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

America is headed for an economic train wreck and Obama will be at the wheel when it happens.

It wont be his fault but he'll get the blame, like Hoover took the hit for the Great Depression.

 

[All_IN]

before i am crucified, allow me to state my beef. Yes, america has been presided over by white men since its inception. But so many people i know go on and on about how we need to have non white male president. I disagree, based on the fact that people's gender and skin color have no impact whatsoever on their ability to lead and make decisions. It seems to me, that while people are saying that everyone is equal, saying that we need to have a different color or gender as chief executive says the opposite, it seems to me that it says that a woman or a black man is better suited to lead this nation because they are not a white man.

I agree. How can the same people who argue that race or gender doesn't make any difference claim in the same breath that it's time the US had a black (or female) President because they could do a better job or be in a better position to bring about much needed changes?

As for Obama, I believe he only got where he is today because of his race. If a white Senator of the same age and with the same (lack of) experience had been in his situation, that person wouldn't have had a chance against Hillary. When it comes down to it, Obama's unique selling proposition is that he's black, which is kind of sad because his ideas on foreign policy are very interesting and a bit more peaceful than those of Hillary or McCain.

 

[oggbashan]

America is headed for an economic train wreck and Obama will be at the wheel when it happens.

It wont be his fault but he'll get the blame, like Hoover took the hit for the Great Depression.

Whoever is President after the election is bound to have a rocky ride because of the World economy and the price of oil. This is a Presidential term to avoid standing for...

I don't think any of the candidates have a plan to deal with the time when the shit hits the fan.

Og

 

[rgraham666]

Whoever is President after the election is bound to have a rocky ride because of the World economy and the price of oil. This is a Presidential term to avoid standing for...

I don't think any of the candidates have a plan to deal with the time when the shit hits the fan.

Og

If they did, ogg, they wouldn't get elected.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

OGG

I know. My ancestor was a pro Union delegate to this state's 1861 secession convention. He argued that secession was futile and wrong and guaranteed to impoverish everyone. It did.

When push comes to shove, people are idiots. We wont do shit until there's a crisis and blood is flowing in the streets.

Oh! I'm running for King of the World. I pledge to repeal the equinoxes and standardize the tides. I think, too, solar eclipses should be viewable everywhere. The present arrangement is elitist.

 

[S-Des]

As for Obama, I believe he only got where he is today because of his race. If a white Senator of the same age and with the same (lack of) experience had been in his situation, that person wouldn't have had a chance against Hillary. When it comes down to it, Obama's unique selling proposition is that he's black, which is kind of sad because his ideas on foreign policy are very interesting and a bit more peaceful than those of Hillary or McCain.

It's also a bit sad (from the perspective of someone who isn't going to vote for either Dem) to see the way his supporters have turned on Hillary and so many of her surrogates on the basis of race. Some of it is deserved because of dumb comments like Bill's after South Carolina, but the thing with Geraldine Ferraro was terrible. Obama has done a great job of keeping himself away from race (which is a good thing in general), but it's obviously been used as a club by his people. Additionally, the hate that's been aimed at Hillary since Iowa by so many on the Left has been startling. I wonder if she yearns for the good old days when the Republicans were almost as mean.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Racism;

I have been beating this drum nonstop, lately, and I'm so tired of the noise, but.

Yes, you are racist. That is not an insult-- really it is not. It's a description of 99% of all Americans, no matter what color they are.
This country suffers enormously from a multitude of divisive pre-suppositions.
I quote;

# All human beings are equal. Men and women are not equal.
# All human beings are equal. White people and people of color are not equal.
# All human beings are equal. The rich and the poor are not equal.
# One does not need to be a white person to be a white supremacist.
# One does not need to be a man to be a misogynist.
# One can be both antiracist and white supremacist
# One can be both feminist and misogynist (Example: yours truly).
# Critique of privileged and/or oppressive behaviour is not a personal attack.
# Resistance to oppressive behaviour is not a personal attack.

One friend of mine talks about being stopped on the street, a little girl aged twelve, 'for the crime of walking with melanin.' She talks about her friends talking about homework-- and being approached by the cops, because four black kids in a group might be dangerous.

It's just possible that, if our president is black, the mere act of Walking with Melanin won't be such a crime anymore. Possibly.

It's no wonder that black people want a black president, and it's no wonder women want a female. White Old Guys have spent a lot of energy for over 200 years, making laws that serve White Old Guys. All the progress minorities have made in the past forty years, has been in the teeth of these White Old Guy rules-- and it feels very precarious.

 

[S-Des]

Yes, you are racist. That is not an insult-- really it is not. It's a description of 99% of all Americans, no matter what color they are. This country suffers enormously from a multitude of divisive pre-suppositions.

No Stella, it's an opinion. You can't simply point at people you don't know and declare that they are racists. It's no more true than saying, "Everyone is a sexist," or "Everyone is a homophobe," or any of dozens of insults that people use on a daily basis to reinforce there views of how the world "really is". The truth is that the world isn't black & white (pardon the pun), no matter how much people want to reduce it to that. It's better than it was for most people, and not as good as it will be some day (hopefully). If you choose to see everything as dark and gloomy, no one will be able to convince you otherwise, but that doesn't make it a fact.

All the progress minorities have made in the past forty years, has been in the teeth of these White Old Guy rules-- and it feels very precarious.

You used the key words...."It feels." There is no plot in the works to take away minority rights. If Obama doesn't win, it will have little to do with his skin color, and more to do with his lack of experience and the positions he takes on issues. We could have another black candidate (or any other minority) at any time. What will be really interesting is to watch the reaction of the Left if the candidate comes from the Right. Considering the hateful things that have been said about people like Justice Thomas, Condoleezza Rice, Larry Elder and others who don't hold the "correct" vision for someone of their skin color, it will be fascinating to see how a minority candidate would be treated. I can tell you without a doubt that Colin Powell would have been our President if he had chosen to run in 2000 as a Republican (and would have received enthusiastic support from the Right). It's not just Democrats who would like to see race become less of an issue. The problem comes when people try to co-opt the issue and say the only way to address it is the way they feel is correct.

 

[rengadeirishman]

i fail to see who i've oppressed in my life. I refuse to be held accountable for the actions attributed to "the man"

 

[Stella_Omega]

Des, Irish asked why Obama's race is important to some of his followers.

I cannot speak for every black supporter of Obama, but I am relaying what I have heard.

As for whether or not most people look at the world through one 'ism' prism or another, I agree that's a matter of opinion-- but I think the opinion devolves more upon the person who's being looked at. It's more important to them than it is to the beholder. Blacks are 'othered' in our society, on our streets, in the media.

i fail to see who i've oppressed in my life. I refuse to be held accountable for the actions attributed to "the man"

It's not about you, dude. White male supremacy is a system of power, not a moral failing or an individual flaw.

I agree. How can the same people who argue that race or gender doesn't make any difference claim in the same breath that it's time the US had a black (or female) President because they could do a better job or be in a better position to bring about much needed changes?

because the guys that do believe that race and gender makes a difference-- are the ones in power. And mostly always have been.

As for Obama, I believe he only got where he is today because of his race. If a white Senator of the same age and with the same (lack of) experience had been in his situation, that person wouldn't have had a chance against Hillary. When it comes down to it, Obama's unique selling proposition is that he's black, which is kind of sad because his ideas on foreign policy are very interesting and a bit more peaceful than those of Hillary or McCain.

Well, as a white woman, I chose Obama because of his ideas on foreign policy. So I don't think his color is his only selling point.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

Racism;

I have been beating this drum nonstop, lately, and I'm so tired of the noise, but.

Yes, you are racist. That is not an insult-- really it is not. It's a description of 99% of all Americans, no matter what color they are. This country suffers enormously from a multitude of divisive pre-suppositions.
# All human beings are equal. Men and women are not equal.
# All human beings are equal. White people and people of color are not equal.
# All human beings are equal. The rich and the poor are not equal.
# One does not need to be a white person to be a white supremacist.
# One does not need to be a man to be a misogynist.
# One can be both antiracist and white supremacist (Example: yours truly).
# One can be both feminist and misogynist (Example: yours truly).
# Critique of privileged and/or oppressive behaviour is not a personal attack.
# Resistance to oppressive behaviour is not a personal attack.

One friend of mine talks about being stopped on the street, a little girl aged twelve, 'for the crime of walking with melanin.' She talks about her friends talking about homework-- and being approached by the cops, because four black kids in a group might be dangerous.

It's just possible that, if our president is black, the mere act of Walking with Melanin won't be such a crime anymore. Possibly.

It's no wonder that black people want a black president, and it's no wonder women want a female. White Old Guys have spent a lot of energy for over 200 years, making laws that serve White Old Guys. All the progress minorities have made in the past forty years, has been in the teeth of these White Old Guy rules-- and it feels very precarious.

One of the best posts I've ever seen concerning race on this site. Thank you.

As for whether or not most people look at the world through one 'ism' prism or another, I agree that's a matter of opinion-- but I think the opinion devolves more upon the person who's being looked at. It's more important to them than it is to the beholder. Blacks are 'othered' in our society, on our streets, in the media.

Yes. And that "othering" is usually decided to be a positive or negative by non-Blacks (or insert minority of choice here) depending on situation.

It's positive when LeBron James scores winning baskets for his team or when Will Smith makes another Hollywood blockbuster. They're everyone's best friends. Until they fuck up. Like, Michael Vick. But Britney Spears, Paris Hilton, Kate Moss, et al, will always have someone there to kiss their asses and carry their weight and pay their tolls no matter how many times they fuck up. And you wonder why this is.

How much you wanna bet if Obama becomes prez, we're gonna be spending four years focusing on what he's doing wrong as opposed to what he's doing right?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Name five great film actors.

Name five great pop or rock singers.














Now, name five great black film actors.

Name five great female singers.

How many of those names were on your first list?

How much you wanna bet if Obama becomes prez, we're gonna be spending four years focusing on what he's doing wrong as opposed to what he's doing right?

Well, that will be true of anyone this term.

The question will be-- how much will every single person of color be judged by his performance (by, needless to say, white people)?

 

[S-Des]

Des, Irish asked why Obama's race is important to some of his followers.

I cannot speak for every black supporter of Obama, but I am relaying what I have heard.

Well, I am in agreement that getting a black President will go a long way towards moving the arguments beyond where they are now. At the same time, I have serious doubts that they'll affect the real problem people have on the streets (we've had mostly Democratic leadership and a large portion of it black for decades, and it's done virtually nothing to improve the lives of minorities in Chicago). If he wins, I hope it does instill a sense of pride and possibility in the people who admire him. Unfortunately, there will still be a preponderance of role models who are more than happy to keep people down so that they can make a buck. Until people turn on those individuals en masse, I just don't see hope for progress.

I am glad to see that you like him for his politics. I've seen far too many people comment that they like his oratory skills or the vague "hope & change" concepts. We can disagree about politics or the right way to address problems, but the second people start voting for individuals without even caring enough to find out what they stand for, we're in serious trouble.

 

[S-Des]

Name five great film actors.

Name five great pop or rock singers.

It's a loaded question. Of the actors, 2 would be black. Of the singers, none (because I don't know very many black pop singers that I like), but maybe 3 women. If you asked for bass players, it would be virtually all black (as well as athletes). If you asked for intellectuals it would be 2 or 3 for black men (but unfortunately no women at the moment). Each category gets decided on it's own merit, not in an attempt to be diverse. If any of the categories were all women, or all minority (or whatever), it wouldn't cause me to give them a second thought. I'm not perfect, but I judge people on their merits (at least to the best of my meager abilities). I know there are people out there who don't, but if you gave them a chance you'd find that most do.

As for white people judging Obama, I think all people would be a lot better off if they'd stop playing identity politics. Blacks vote Democrat over 90%, and it hasn't exactly made their lives a dream. Maybe more people should look at individual issues with politicians and less at, "Well, I was raised _____, so I guess I'll vote ________ again."

 

[Stella_Omega]

You are rather unusual, then Des. Really, you are. You are quite concious!

If 'zumi is around, we ought to ask him his opinion on how white people most often judge him-- merit first? Or "pretty good, in the non-white category."

I can remember Joni Mitchell in an interview, one time. She was laughing about how often people come up to her and say; "Joni! You are one of my favorite female singers!"

Oh-- here's another thing; has anyone noticed that not one person in this thread has disputed the premise that Obama is black?

No one's said; "He's just as much white as he is black!"

In our society, whiteness defines everyone else in the world.

 

[The_Fractal_King]

Oh-- here's another thing; has anyone noticed that not one person in this thread has disputed the premise that Obama is black?

No one's said; "He's just as much white as he is black!"

In our society, whiteness defines everyone else in the world.

It's not as though he plays that up too much. Perhaps people are simply respectful of that.

 

[Stella_Omega]

It's not as though he plays that up too much. Perhaps people are simply respectful of that.

Name five great film actors.

 

[The_Fractal_King]

Name five great film actors.

Will Smith
Morgan Freeman
Levar Burton
Chuck Norris
George Clooney

 

[Stella_Omega]

Chuck Norris?

 

[The_Fractal_King]

Chuck Norris?

Every list of great actors needs a person known for his badassery not his talent. Besides I enjoyed Missing In Action and Walker, Texas Ranger.