Which is easier...
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iluvyou3638
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word. maybe start with a vanilla girl who has hinted at or shown submissive qualities.
What submissive qualities do you look for in someone who presents themselves as vanilla?
iluvyou3638
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hmm.....liking to suck cock maybe. enjoys being thrown around a little. gets really horny when you talk to them in a dominant way. lotsa stuff to look for.
EmpressFi
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I wouldnt say sucking cock.. it's not always a submissive act, but the others were good. But what about in just their general demeanor. I'm just about always deferring to others, taking care of others, putting their wants and desires above mine.. whether that's where we go to eat, what we watch on TV, etc.
iluvyou3638
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oh i'm not like that at all. i'm very dominant in my everyday life but when it comes to sex i am 100% submissive. but then i don't know if i could actually BE a sub, it would be hard for me to give up that much control. hm...and not just cock sucking. more like....face fucking. like, thoroughly enjoying having fat cock shoved deep down your throat and sucking the guy off until he cums wherever he pleases kind of cock sucking.
cherokee_dove
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Agrees with Fi. The attitude matters a lot. Deferring to others, finding ways to give them pleasure. Things that the person in question may not even realize they are doing.
Like making sure after an extra long day at work, that a bath is drawn for him when he gets home. Stuff that looks "vanilla" but is her way of pleasing him or giving him pleasure.
EmpressFi
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To be honest.. for me.. that brings out that little bit of me that's dominant. Feeling him get turned on, hearing the primal growl and knowing it's my mouth making him lose control.. he may see it as a submissive act.. but.. to me it makes me feel more dominant..
iluvyou3638
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that is one of those things that can go both ways. the way some people think of it, you're in control, his balls in your hands. but that way i think of it, he's in control with his hand on my head and his cock in my mouth, he could choke me any time. it's like a gift really when he lets me just get him off. man....now i'm horny....
BiBunny
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I'm hopeless at reading hints or subtle cues or whatnot. And lazy. Let's not forget lazy. I totally couldn't take someone vanilla and turn him/her into the kind of partner I want. That's why I only date in the kinky pool nowadays. I admire those of you who can do it, but not me. Y'all are more patient and more optimistic than I am or will ever be.
Also, keep in mind that if you're into kink, you're going to see it in places that other people wouldn't. You can make yourself believe anything if you want to believe it badly enough. The majority of people aren't into the stuff we're into, even if we want to believe they are. I don't think it's any more fair to try to force or coerce a vanilla person into a kinky lifestyle than it is to try to force or coerce a kinky person into a vanilla lifestyle. (Not saying anyone's doing that; just making a general observation here.)
Also, keep in mind that if you're into kink, you're going to see it in places that other people wouldn't. You can make yourself believe anything if you want to believe it badly enough. The majority of people aren't into the stuff we're into, even if we want to believe they are. I don't think it's any more fair to try to force or coerce a vanilla person into a kinky lifestyle than it is to try to force or coerce a kinky person into a vanilla lifestyle. (Not saying anyone's doing that; just making a general observation here.)
Homburg
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These days it seems like I can smell it, but the initial litmus test is to look the person in the eye directly, with intensity but without hostility. If she demures by looking down, she may well be submissive, or have submissive tendencies. There are a load of small signs, and, frankly, I couldn't tell you specifically what each one is. It's more of a colour that tints virtually everything a submissive does.
Noira
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And it drives me utterly crazy when someone claims that just because I have an indecisive, servile nature that I am obviously submissive.
No, lies, WRONG.
It's true. In my day to day life, I'm quiet, I automatically get up to take dishes off the table or wonder what someone else wants first--I'm usually deferring to someone else's wishes and I do admit it: I am a servant by nature.
I am not submissive by nature.
For this I consider myself a switch. Most people who meet me would try call me out as a sub. My best friend would likely say otherwise. It takes me a very, very long time to get comfortable enough with people to dominate them, it's easy for me to serve people and even when I'm pulling the strings I'm constantly making sure they're good, they're good, I'm sorry, really, I'm sorry--but I'm still in control of the moment through being submissive. Eerie, isn't it? You've heard of topping from the bottom? I bottom from the top while topping from the bottom. I'm fairly confident in my identity as a switch because depending on my mood and my triggers, I am capable of being submissive but if I'm not in the right mood, even if I'll do it I'll be hella pissed off--and if I'm in the right mood, you listen to me or die, GOT THAT, PUNK?
And ultimately, I would want most to be in a relationship wherein I trusted the person enough to submit to them in my sex life as well--and they would trust me enough to do the same.
And I would want a person who would trust themselves enough to dominate me--and most of all, a person with whom I could trust myself enough to dominate.I enjoy being in control, though no one would guess it from my actions. I top from the bottom a lot in my day to day life, submissive, servile and indecisive, pushing people around while being hesitantly and apologetic. I would be quite upset if someone decided from that, that I was a submissive to the core. I am submissive, sure--but I'm dominant as well.
Anyway, I'd say it's easier to find a sub who knows she's a sub--there's a lot of male and female subs out there. I wouldn't say I'm a common person but it is frequent that a dominant person outside will be submissive inside--and the other way around.
Maybe I'm just a domme and haven't realized it yet.
ANYWAYY.
/ranting
Sorry, I don't get to rant too often about stuff like this. If you're out for a DS relationship, you might want to make it clear to your signifigant other right away. You could date vanilla but make sure they know fairly early on instead of trying to brainwash them into it.
Unfortunately, depending on my mood, I'd glance away or I'd stare back manically until THEY looked away.
...Yeah, switch. You guys will get over it.
Really, just date in the kinky pool, or swing a bit and be willing to talk about it. There are kinky people who aren't out of the closet. (shrugs)
_kiana_
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Oh holy CRAP it intimidates me when someone does it. My last Dominant partner used to force me to look into his eyes occasionally and all it made me want to do was fall at his feet and start kissing. I have to force eye contact with people in everyday life and it's really freaking uncomfortable.
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Personally, I think if you're looking for a kinky relationship in the vanilla world you're dooming yourself to failure and heartache. If someone doesn't want kink it isn't fair to them to get involved and force it on them. Yeah, it makes it harder to find partners but it's being honest about what you want. And honesty is a big deal.
And that goes for PYLs and pyls alike.
Guilan
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Hmm, interesting, interesting. May I say a couple things?
1. I find it interesting that it seems to be stereotyped as females being the submissives. "If she demures by looking down" "maybe start with a vanilla girl who has hinted at or shown submissive qualities"
I find this interesting as I have some of the same qualities some consider signs of submissive. I consider others first, like to please them first, like to help out, I rarely can look someone in the eye etc. but I am a male. merely pointing out it seems like a stereotype has formed, though it may be justified.
2. How might a guy tell if he is a sub? the same things? what are some signs that might be more common in submissive men? for either straight bi or gay, I don't care.
I apologize if this is off topic, I felt it might be best suitable here.
1. I find it interesting that it seems to be stereotyped as females being the submissives. "If she demures by looking down" "maybe start with a vanilla girl who has hinted at or shown submissive qualities"
I find this interesting as I have some of the same qualities some consider signs of submissive. I consider others first, like to please them first, like to help out, I rarely can look someone in the eye etc. but I am a male. merely pointing out it seems like a stereotype has formed, though it may be justified.
2. How might a guy tell if he is a sub? the same things? what are some signs that might be more common in submissive men? for either straight bi or gay, I don't care.
I apologize if this is off topic, I felt it might be best suitable here.
catalina_francisco
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Personally I would go with the thought it is easier to find a sub who knows they are or want to be submissive than converting unsuspecting vanilla folk. I must admit it is one of those things I find slightly offensive in that it comes down to someone trying to make someone else into something they are not at that point in their life for their own purposes (but often trying to say it is for the one they are trying to convert), and as such IMHO assuming they do not have enough brains to know themselves, or that they need someone to teach them who they are in a way which if they have gone out to find a vanilla to convert also demonstrates a lack of respect for that person and thus would make it difficult to gain respect. I tend to put it in the same basket as people who love to think they can convert gay people into being straight or v v...it is totally based on one person thinking they know what is best for another with total disregard for that person.
As to obvious signs, I also put them up there with body language myths. I am a slave and have a submissive nature to the core, but I also have run my own life more than successfully, been in a supervisory role in the workplace, am someone who has been told on several occasions I have been used as a role model for others, and I don't feel a need to look down if someone stares into my eyes (in fact I could see that as being rude on their and my part...theirs for staring, mine for looking down...they could also be just shy...it also is worth noting that if the person being stared into the eyes of has Asperger's, it is a common reaction to look down or away and likely to also make them run a mile which I guess would then be interpreted by some PYL's as a sure sign they were submissive and found them attractive...not so!!), I don't run around trying to make everyone happy or serve everyone in an effort to make sure they are happy, nor do I feel I need someone to keep me in line or guide me through life or rescue me...all commonly tagged submissive qualities.
As for things like drawing baths for a tired partner at the end of the day...I know a lot of vanilla people who would do that out of love or consideration and are not submissive in the slightest, just as F has done for me on occasion when I am in pain or ill. Same thing for sucking cock no matter how it is done...that is a sex act which a lot of people enjoy and who do not have the slightest D/s bone in their body...it has been around for thousands of years. I do think people often like to read into others what suits them, often like to define all their vanilla friends into either the Dominant or submissive column when they are not into D/s, which once again I find offensive and making huge assumptions based on their mindset, not that of the other person.
Catalina
As to obvious signs, I also put them up there with body language myths. I am a slave and have a submissive nature to the core, but I also have run my own life more than successfully, been in a supervisory role in the workplace, am someone who has been told on several occasions I have been used as a role model for others, and I don't feel a need to look down if someone stares into my eyes (in fact I could see that as being rude on their and my part...theirs for staring, mine for looking down...they could also be just shy...it also is worth noting that if the person being stared into the eyes of has Asperger's, it is a common reaction to look down or away and likely to also make them run a mile which I guess would then be interpreted by some PYL's as a sure sign they were submissive and found them attractive...not so!!), I don't run around trying to make everyone happy or serve everyone in an effort to make sure they are happy, nor do I feel I need someone to keep me in line or guide me through life or rescue me...all commonly tagged submissive qualities.
As for things like drawing baths for a tired partner at the end of the day...I know a lot of vanilla people who would do that out of love or consideration and are not submissive in the slightest, just as F has done for me on occasion when I am in pain or ill. Same thing for sucking cock no matter how it is done...that is a sex act which a lot of people enjoy and who do not have the slightest D/s bone in their body...it has been around for thousands of years. I do think people often like to read into others what suits them, often like to define all their vanilla friends into either the Dominant or submissive column when they are not into D/s, which once again I find offensive and making huge assumptions based on their mindset, not that of the other person.
Catalina
intothewoods
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You mean during conversation, right? Because otherwise when that happens to me, I just think who is that creepy guy staring at me?
As to the OP's question, I vote someone who is already aware of their submissiveness.
I totally disagree that sucking cock is definitely submissive. Talk to Shankara a bit about anal or cocksucking and you'll totally change your mind on that one.
Desdemona
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I saw you doing that in Atlanta.
You've got that intense gaze thing down pat. I tried real hard not to look down or away.
I don't think I succeeded very well.
In terms of the original post, I think it's way easier to stay with someone who has already figured it out. Trying to convert someone is more trouble than it's worth.
You've got that intense gaze thing down pat. I tried real hard not to look down or away.
I don't think I succeeded very well.
In terms of the original post, I think it's way easier to stay with someone who has already figured it out. Trying to convert someone is more trouble than it's worth.
SubKekiLee
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Someone who is willing to be respecful, honest, integral, open-minded,
Sorry for the lame ass title, but what do you guys think is easier, finding a sub who knows they are a sub, or starting from scratch in a vanilla relationship and trying to introduce your partner to the lifestyle?
I think in this day and age it is easier to start with someone who knows they are submissive, I do not think you should start from a vanilla and try to introduce a vanilla
be_ignited
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Sorry for the lame ass title, but what do you guys think is easier, finding a sub who knows they are a sub, or starting from scratch in a vanilla relationship and trying to introduce your partner to the lifestyle?
I think it depends on what type of involvement you're looking for yourself. I believe there are many open-minded, otherwise vanilla people who would be up for BDSM-style play in the bedroom every so often, but if you're looking for something more permanent or something that extends outside the bedroom, you'd probably have better luck looking for someone already in tune with their sexual proclivities. Personally, I've had a lot of success here at lit on the personals, but I'm a female submissive so the odds are in my favor.
I really disagree with what many others have said here about 'typical submissive qualities.' First, you never specified if you were looking for bedroom only BDSM, or something that extends outside the bedroom. Also, having the qualities others mentioned does not necessarily mean one is or is not submissive. I am submissive to my Master, but you wouldn't guess it from my behavior otherwise--I can be loud, goofy and hold a number of leadership positions in my every day life and have no problems taking control when it needs to be done. The D/s part of our relationship, even extends outside the bedroom, but again I don't think anyone would realize this from just looking at us. To the world at large we probably just look like a young couple in love.
Furthermore, what good is the submission (not really the phrasing I want, so bare with me) of someone who gives it out to every Tom, Dick and Harry who tries to stare her down? I'm not one of those "submission is a gift" people and I don't mean to denigrate others here, but "submissive nature" or no, healthy submission requires a good dose of selectivity along with it in my opinion. That's another discussion entirely, though.
Desdemona
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I'm domme, but occasionally I will suck my sub-husband's cock. I wouldn't tell him, but I enjoy the feel of his big (9") cock in my mouth, less than half of it, of course. I do not swallow. After allowing him to come in my mouth, I force him to kneel with his mouth open and his head tilted back so I may return his semen to him.
Homburg
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In my case, I'm male, het, and dominant. I choose female partners. When I discuss submissives, I'm generally discussing female submissives because that is what I play with, and thus what I know. Given that the majority of folks around here tend to express a single sex preference, you will find similar verbage all over (though some will use male pronouns over female pronouns as they prefer male submissives). Even the bisexuals that I've seen tend to express one sex in a given post. It's not stereotyping. It's just lingual convenience.
In point of fact, I can think of one person here that consistently uses gender-neutral pronouns, and she only does it in certain situations. Personally, I can't keep the gender-neutral stuff together, and I'm not going to waste my time to use "his/her" or "he/she" or whatever every time I post.
And, honestly, if I give a male submissive the eye, he is likely too look down/away as well. It has more to do with submissive nature than sexual orientation.
It can be complex or simple depending on how you look at it, and whether or not you wish to complicate it. Being submissive can be as simple as getting a rush out of serving someone else, or it can be complex to the point that I can't describe it. I'm not a submissive after all.
I would suggest doing some searching through erotica and such to see what concepts and imagery excite you. Might be a good initial step. I have heard that it is more difficult for males due to a lifetime of societal conditioning that says males should be dominant. I wish you luck.
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Yes, in conversation. I don't tend to stare at people that I am not in conversation with. And I don't tend to do that particular behaviour unless I am interested in knowing.
Well, I try not to anyway...
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You've got that intense gaze thing down pat. I tried real hard not to look down or away.
I don't think I succeeded very well.
I wasn't trying, Des.
You were a charming and engaging dinner companion. I was enjoying your conversation and company, much as I was the rest of those that were near enough for conversation. If I was being intense, please chalk it up to me subconsciously getting "in the zone" in preparation for the demo later.
I find that any time I am going to perform publically, be it scening or demoing, I tend to start getting into the proper mindset early. It's not something I just turn on and off, and this means that I am sometimes more intense than is probably appropriate.
My apologies if it was off-putting
EmpressFi
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I find that any time I am going to perform publically, be it scening or demoing, I tend to start getting into the proper mindset early. It's not something I just turn on and off, and this means that I am sometimes more intense than is probably appropriate.
My apologies if it was off-putting
I can attest to this...
