topping from the bottom.

[dolf]

i do it.
i love it.
he loves it.

why, as a bdsm dynamic, is topping from the bottom looked down on?

 

[EmpressFi]

I think it's looked down on because if you're topping from the bottom you're not really being the bottom. But.. if you both enjoy it.. why worry what someone else thinks?

 

[His_pita]

My Sir thinks that I can only top from the bottom if he allows it and since he is the dom and gets to call the shots, I never top from the bottom. I do however, make really strong requests.

 

[dolf]

My Sir thinks that I can only top from the bottom if he allows it and since he is the dom and gets to call the shots, I never top from the bottom. I do however, make really strong requests.

fun huh?

as long as he reserves the right to spank any bottom that rises too close to the top.

 

[intothewoods]

What do you mean by topping from the bottom? I think the only valid criticisim is a bottom who manipulates her top, but manipulation in a relationship is never a good thing anyway.

 

[incubus_dark]

When you say that you love topping from the bottom, I am given to understand that you like telling, leading, cajoling or otherwise manipulating your dom, such that he does with you things that you want.

To my mind, and I’m happy to hear alternative views on the matter, this is not submitting. Submitting involves relinquishing your decision making power and resigning yourself to experience what is done to you, whether you want it or not. When topping from the bottom, as I’ve defined it, you may well be engaged in some playful perversion, but you are retaining both control and decision, and thus never really experience submission, loss of freedom, or the special joy that subs take in being used and or degraded.

The only times that I’ve allowed a sub to top from the bottom, have been when I have felt utterly lazy, uninvolved or too tired to exert sufficient imagination to make the scene worth doing. As such, I don’t see it at a good thing.

 

[Netzach]

If I'm being patently manipulated and it makes me giggle and play along, I'm not really being that manipulated then, right?

It's annoying when it's done in a way the top finds annoying. The problem is that it's also like other people's children - yours are loveable even when they're fuck ups, and other person's snotty 4 year old is just ew.

 

[rida]

i do it.
i love it.
he loves it.

why, as a bdsm dynamic, is topping from the bottom looked down on?

If you top from the bottom, you are not bottoming. You are having things that you like done to you and you are still then one running the show. But if that is what you (plural) like, nothing wrong with it.

The problem is when the bottom try to be sneaky and manipulative in a way to wiggle out of what she/he does not like to get what she/he likes instead.
In this case, it is insulting and dishonest to the PYL.

And let's face it, if the pyl is so good at it that the PYL does not notice or the the PYL is so dumb that does not notice. Why the pyl even bother pretending to bottom since she does not really like it?

 

[BiBunny]

Maybe we're working with more than one definition of topping from the bottom here. I agree with Netz. Nothing's more effective than letting a sub think he's getting his way occasionally (and putting something over on me) when whatever it was he's angling for was exactly what I wanted to do to him in the first place.

 

[dolf]

When you say that you love topping from the bottom, I am given to understand that you like telling, leading, cajoling or otherwise manipulating your dom, such that he does with you things that you want.

To my mind, and I’m happy to hear alternative views on the matter, this is not submitting. Submitting involves relinquishing your decision making power and resigning yourself to experience what is done to you, whether you want it or not. When topping from the bottom, as I’ve defined it, you may well be engaged in some playful perversion, but you are retaining both control and decision, and thus never really experience submission, loss of freedom, or the special joy that subs take in being used and or degraded.

The only times that I’ve allowed a sub to top from the bottom, have been when I have felt utterly lazy, uninvolved or too tired to exert sufficient imagination to make the scene worth doing. As such, I don’t see it at a good thing.

that's the attitude i was talking about.

If I'm being patently manipulated and it makes me giggle and play along, I'm not really being that manipulated then, right?

It's annoying when it's done in a way the top finds annoying. The problem is that it's also like other people's children - yours are loveable even when they're fuck ups, and other person's snotty 4 year old is just ew.

knew i liked you for a reason.

 

[incubus_dark]

It's also the answer to your question as to why it's looked down on

 

[Calabama]

I don't agree that if you're topping from the bottom you're not really 'the bottom'. I am, by nature, a complete submissive. But, if I'm told step outside of my comfort zone and be the dominant one, it's most certainly not because I'm being manipulative, or because I want to do it, it's because I've been told to do so. I do it because he wants me to.

He likes knowing he's making me do something that is such opposition to what I am.

 

[ladycrow]

Maybe we're working with more than one definition of topping from the bottom here. I agree with Netz. Nothing's more effective than letting a sub think he's getting his way occasionally (and putting something over on me) when whatever it was he's angling for was exactly what I wanted to do to him in the first place.

Quoted for emphasis. Because the dominant who is really in control would still be in control even when it appears the submissive is topping from the bottom.

And a dominant who lacks control when a submissive tries to be manipulative probably doesn't have a strong grasp on it the rest of the time.


That said, what about masochistic dominants topping from the bottom?

 

[ataxia.girl]

Fixing from the bottom

i top from the bottom frequently and of necessity sometimes it feels like. Especially in the beginning of a relationship i feel like some Tops almost require you to do it, of course can be argued if they know what they are doing here then it isn't really topping from the bottom but they don't always know. Yes in these cases i am aware the problem is my choice in Top but Tops who know how to have fun with me AND not let me top from the bottom are few and far between so sometimes i settle to keep busy. There is a fine line between a bottom giving information and topping from the bottom in my book and it really depends on the Top which is happening.

When i find it most frequent for me is when the Top starts having to deal with a lot of external stress or things have gone of the rails a bit and they start using my topping from the bottom as a crutch or way to try and keep me happy. i absolutely hate this. i don't know how to avoid it but if it goes on for too long it ruins the relationship or at least dramatically changes it. i lose respect for the Top that allows me to top from the bottom for extended periods. Sometimes i really wish i wasn't so good at it because on the other hand i don't know how to have faith in a Top unless i have pulled out all my topping from the bottom stops to make sure they aren't going to let me

The problem i think is that when things start going wrong in the relationship the Top really has to be the one to fix it, the bottom really can't but its hard to just sit back and watch it not get fixed. Plus as bottom you are often blamed when things start not feeling right anymore so there is added pressure to try and FIX from the bottom.

 

[Quinn71]

I think it's looked down on because if you're topping from the bottom you're not really being the bottom. But.. if you both enjoy it.. why worry what someone else thinks?

I think no other answer is required here....Well-said!

 

[ataxia.girl]

If I'm being patently manipulated and it makes me giggle and play along, I'm not really being that manipulated then, right?

It's annoying when it's done in a way the top finds annoying. The problem is that it's also like other people's children - yours are loveable even when they're fuck ups, and other person's snotty 4 year old is just ew.

oh i luv being Daddy's fuck up little girl! i know other Doms look and think "i would NEVER allow that if she was my girl".

In regard to my previous post i don't mind topping from the bottom if i'm just being indulged cuz he loves me. What i mind is the chronic, "i don't have time to figure this out so i'm going to let you tell me how to tell you what to do to make this work so i still have you around to fuck" crap.

 

[Homburg]

i do it.
i love it.
he loves it.

why, as a bdsm dynamic, is topping from the bottom looked down on?

Because most people assume that if you are getting spanked you must be a submissive, and submissives don't top from the bottom, else they aren't real subs.

A bottom is just someone that takes it, either sexually, pain play, etc. They are an ass to spank, and it is essentially a physical/sensation thing. There is nothing inherently submissive about enjoying a spanking if you are wired to enjoy a spanking. You don't need to call the spanker "Grand High Dom McNastyboots" or whatever to enjoy getting your ass whacked.

Still, most submissives, and many dominants, seem to look down on non-submissive bottoms. I can't say that I've studied your posts in depth, dolf, but I can't recall you ever claiming to be submissive. Personally, get on with your bad self. If topping from the bottom makes you and your top happy, have fun.

On a personal front, I've had a lot of fun with non-submissive bottoms. One of my favourite rope bunnies is that way, and she's a blast to tie. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[BiBunny]

Grand High Dom McNastyboots?

*Dies laughing*

 

[iluvyou3638]

would someone mind telling me what that means




i'm not so good with the lingo.

 

[Homburg]

Grand High Dom McNastyboots?

*Dies laughing*

Credit to Rosco Rathbone for that one.

 

[SavannahMann]

It really depends.

In a current story, I have a sub topping from the bottom. The notional Dom isn't aware of it at first. The trick to it is aware, and able to accept.

If you're giving suggestions on where you'd like the scene to go, that isn't really topping from the bottom. If you're giving instructions on what he's to do next, that is. The whole thing boils down to safe, sane, consensual. If both parties agree, there's nothing wrong with it. Enjoy, and have a good time.

If on the other hand, the bottom is manipulating the Dom, and he's (I know, it could easily be a female, don't blame me for the inadequacies of the language.) unaware he's being manipulated, that's another story all together.

Perhaps part of the problem is that people in the BDSM lifestyle assume that we're more WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get) in our relationships.

 

[kinkyknickers]

Top from the bottom? Hell yes!

I TOTALLY get where you're coming from. Pandering to my masters needs when he's being all high and mighty just makes me fucking laugh. No offense intended to his beautiful Minx of a wife who is a true sub, or to any other sub.

When I'm with both of them at the same time I feel like sticking up for her when he tells her what to do but I have to remind myself, it's exactly what she wants.

I don't think it makes me any less of a bottom when it comes to play, but I am very much my own person outside of that, I don't like that to ever be in doubt.

Definitions are merely a convinience anyway and only good from the outside looking in.

I reckon it's looked down from 'cos most doms are soft and can't handle a bit of spunk. Nya nya, nya nya, nya!
^^ A perfectly bratty example of topping from the bottom right there.

KK.

 

[ownedsubgal]

i think Homburg hit it. there is nothing wrong, imo, with one who identifies as a bottom "topping from the bottom," if that works for all involved, more power and fun to 'em. there is a big difference between a Top/bottom dynamic and a Dominant/submissive dynamic. were a submissive to attempt to top from the bottom, this would generally be looked down upon because such conduct is contrary to what it means to be submissive in the first place. however a bottom need not be submissive, and if one doesn't identify as submissive then really no lines are being crossed and no one has any place to judge.

 

[Homburg]

i think Homburg hit it. there is nothing wrong, imo, with one who identifies as a bottom "topping from the bottom," if that works for all involved, more power and fun to 'em. there is a big difference between a Top/bottom dynamic and a Dominant/submissive dynamic. were a submissive to attempt to top from the bottom, this would generally be looked down upon because such conduct is contrary to what it means to be submissive in the first place. however a bottom need not be submissive, and if one doesn't identify as submissive then really no lines are being crossed and no one has any place to judge.

Precisely. I've even talked to some folks that identified as submissive and discussed the idea of bottom vs submissive as an identifier. In at least one case, the person liked the concept and went along with it, and she is much more comfortable with her own terminology now.

Nothing wrong with bottoms IMO.

 

[faeriefire]

I love teasing and playing and I definately like to see if I can get a reaction. But if a Dom were to give in and let me tell him what to do all the time I don't think I'd be able to respect him much. In many ways I am very strong willed. Part of my enjoyment in teasing is the knowledge that we both enjoy it and that when the time comes he will show he is stronger, sharper, more controlled than me and thus deserving of my respect. At that point there's trust and thus it's ok to let go completely...that component of making someone prove themself...in some ways I guess it's manipulative tho if he's clearly aware of it perhaps it's more of a guage I think it's something I use to see if someone deserves my respect in the first place. And if I keep pushing it's a means to assure myself that he's still the same strong, reliable, individual I can trust when I'm out of my mind and following every word.

In the midst of playing I see a big difference between saying 'do xyz to me now' and begging for something that may or may not be given. Communicating what you are thinking and feeling, sure, of course... At the end of the day a couple has to find what works for them. For me I need the freedom to be a little sarcastic, a little goofy, and to tease. I may even have some SAMmy genes lol. But when it's time to be serious there's no way in hell I'm giving orders or directing what happens next. At that point I'm lucky if I can still speak...

I don't think I view submitting or bottoming or whatever as something to be judged one way or another. Every person's sexuality is their own and the terms we use to define ourselves really don't change what we are or how we act. They're descriptors, sometimes unifiers, things people use for us vs them statements. But everyone has their own definition and their own quadra of belief and subsequent action. What I don't like is when people say "I am xyz, everyone else should do xyz just like me". IMHO each person has to decide what they like and work with that in their relationships. So if you enjoy the dynamic you've got, kudos go out to you and your SO for finding in each other exactly what you both need. That takes time, hard work, communication. And I must say I admire those who are happy where they're at, content with themselves. Because at the end of the day no matter what you call yourself if you're deep-down-happy the labels are superfluous anyway.