POV Question

[SemiColon]

I read something somewhere (maybe that jumping the shark link?) about NOT using shifting POV, that you should just use 3rd person. However, the top rated gay male stories fluxuate POV and people obviously like that. I'm asking b/c my latest project is a mess of POVs - um, three different ones and I need to straighten it out. I often struggle between the balance between just letting the flow of the story take me where it needs to and the need to follow certain rules so as to not irritate the reader.

 

[Weird Harold]

I read something somewhere (maybe that jumping the shark link?) about NOT using shifting POV, that you should just use 3rd person. However, the top rated gay male stories fluxuate POV and people obviously like that. I'm asking b/c my latest project is a mess of POVs - um, three different ones and I need to straighten it out. I often struggle between the balance between just letting the flow of the story take me where it needs to and the need to follow certain rules so as to not irritate the reader.

Multiple third person limited POVs can be very effective when done well, but therein lies the catch -- it's difficult to do multiple POV stories well.

What I would do to straighten out your "mess of POVs" is to rank your three POV characters so that when the top character is present, the POV is always his, the second rank takes over when he's out of the picture, and the third only has the POV when the other two are absent.

 

[fifty5]

I read something somewhere (maybe that jumping the shark link?) about NOT using shifting POV, that you should just use 3rd person. However, the top rated gay male stories fluxuate POV and people obviously like that. I'm asking b/c my latest project is a mess of POVs - um, three different ones and I need to straighten it out. I often struggle between the balance between just letting the flow of the story take me where it needs to and the need to follow certain rules so as to not irritate the reader.

Not shifting POvs is just easier to do and make it work. If you make it work, it's no problem.

I've done it (see "Is it 'Incest' or 'Group Sex'?" in my sig), so you can.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Are you talking about first person POV?

(switching between several first person voices) is really hard to pull off for the most experienced writers. It's really irritating to the readers, even when it's well done, because one gets used to one narrative voice and then has to re-acclimate oneself-- which takes one's attention right away from the plot.

I would suggest trying third person semi-omniscient, with the hierarchy that Weird Harold suggested.

 

[sr71plt]

I read something somewhere (maybe that jumping the shark link?) about NOT using shifting POV, that you should just use 3rd person. However, the top rated gay male stories fluxuate POV and people obviously like that. I'm asking b/c my latest project is a mess of POVs - um, three different ones and I need to straighten it out. I often struggle between the balance between just letting the flow of the story take me where it needs to and the need to follow certain rules so as to not irritate the reader.

Not shifting POV and using 3rd person are not the same animal--although in one sense they are. As sort of noted by an earlier responder, 3rd person is actually the only voice in which you can switch perspective effectively without marking hard section changes (3rd person omniscent, where the narrator can get into the mind of all characters). Of course, as long as you clearly note section changes, you can effectively shift any of the perspectives inside a story/book. Any of this, if done right, can be effective--and having done it well is probably why those stories you've read are top rated.

And I don't agree with those who say erotica should be in 3rd person. As erotica should be highly personalized, I think it's natural to write it in the first person. So, there you go, it isn't necessarily a one size fits all sort of thing.

 

[sr71plt]

Are you talking about first person POV?

That is really hard to pull off for the most experienced writers. It's really irritating to the readers, even when it's well done, because one gets used the narrative voice and then has to re-acclimate oneself-- which takes one's attention right away from the plot.

I would suggest trying third person semi-omniscient, with the hierarchy that Weird Harold suggested.

There you go. I think that's patently untrue for erotica. But that's just me. (and my high-rated 1st person erotica, I might add. )

 

[Stella_Omega]

There you go. I think that's patently untrue for erotica. But that's just me. (and my high-rated 1st person erotica, I might add. )

I write a lot of first person erotica, and if I write in third it's usually very limited-- so tightly focussed on one character that it might as well be first. So I'm not disagreeing with you there!

I have written with a perspective that switches back and forth between the two principals, but never in first person. And I've published roleplay threads with someone else-- which took a shit load of editing to make it palatable for the readers-- but that's the only first person switch I've ever felt was satisfactory, and only because we posted it as an RP.

 

[sr71plt]

I write a lot of first person erotica, and if I write in third it's usually very limited-- so tightly focussed on one character that it might as well be first. So I'm not disagreeing with you there!

I have written with a perspective that switches back and forth between the two principals, but never in first person. And I've published roleplay threads with someone else-- which took a shit load of editing to make it palatable for the readers-- but that's the only first person switch I've ever felt was satisfactory, and only because we posted it as an RP.

Sorry, it certainly looked to me like you were saying that even well-written 1st person is irritating to readers. I do most of my erotica writing in 1st person--for the reason I noted; it's almost self-evidently the most intimate of the voices and the easiest one in which to show emotion--and it seems to go over just fine.

I don't reject writing a good story in any of the POVs. That's why they are still there. They can be made to work.

 

[Weird Harold]

There you go. I think that's patently untrue for erotica. But that's just me. (and my high-rated 1st person erotica, I might add. )

(Yes, I'm tired of half-baked writers declaiming won't work in writing.)

First person POV does work well -- when it's written well -- and it's not all that difficult to write well. (My own "best" story is written in First Person.)

The problem is that First person is also extremely easy to fuck up -- my "worst" (and "First") story is also in First Person.

Shiftng first person POVs can work, but it's awfully easy to create a feeling very similar to a listening to a first-grade class desribe a circus act all at the same time.

L.E. Modessit often uses a first/third shifting POV technique in his Magic of Recluse series that works relatively well -- he uses first person POV for a single main character and third person limited POV when the story moves to action the first person narrator isn't/wasn't present for.

 

[sr71plt]

First person POV does work well -- when it's written well -- and it's not all that difficult to write well. (My own "best" story is written in First Person.)

The problem is that First person is also extremely easy to fuck up -- my "worst" (and "First") story is also in First Person.

Shiftng first person POVs can work, but it's awfully easy to create a feeling very similar to a listening to a first-grade class desribe a circus act all at the same time.

L.E. Modessit often uses a first/third shifting POV technique in his Magic of Recluse series that works relatively well -- he uses first person POV for a single main character and third person limited POV when the story moves to action the first person narrator isn't/wasn't present for.

But, then, they are all easy to fuck up, aren't they?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Sorry, it certainly looked to me like you were saying that even well-written 1st person is irritating to readers. I do most of my erotica writing in 1st person--for the reason I noted; it's almost self-evidently the most intimate of the voices and the easiest one in which to show emotion--and it seems to go over just fine.

I don't reject writing a good story in any of the POVs. That's why they are still there. They can be made to work.

Yes, I can see how unclear my post was! I've edited it now.

First person is sexy as fuck, IMO! I get a queasy feeling about second person, though...

 

[sr71plt]

First person is sexy as fuck, IMO! I get a queasy feeling about second person, though...

As do I (second person). When I've tried it, I've kept it pretty short--and highly emotional, the overwhelmed high heat approach.

 

[Weird Harold]

But, then, they are all easy to fuck up, aren't they?

Some are much easier than others.

It's really hard to violate the (non-existant) restrictions of Third Person Omniscient although it's still real easy to muck up all of the other parts of the "good writing" equation.

 

[Stella_Omega]

As do I (second person). When I've tried it, I've kept it pretty short--and highly emotional, the overwhelmed high heat approach.

That works!

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Questions of personal taste come up, too. Honestly, if a story I open is second person, I don't get past the first paragraph. Just don't like someone else telling me how I act or feel.

My highest rated story switched from first to third and back to first because it had to. However, the sections were for all intent and purpose, different chapters. Otherwise, I don't think it would have worked, at least for me. But then, I make no claims for my skill, either.

 

[SemiColon]

I have 3rd person and two first person accounts, nice to know it is possible to switch from 3rd to 1st. There's a blurb in this board somewhere that says 1st person is best for erotica, which is what started me trying it. I keep trying to go back and edit it but I really like what I've written so far and can't make myself change it, so I give up and close the window.

 

[Guest]

I have 3rd person and two first person accounts, nice to know it is possible to switch from 3rd to 1st. There's a blurb in this board somewhere that says 1st person is best for erotica, which is what started me trying it. I keep trying to go back and edit it but I really like what I've written so far and can't make myself change it, so I give up and close the window.

I don't know if first is "best" for anything, though.

I believe for the writer it makes erotica seem more intimate, especially if they are writing about personal experiences or much-beloved fantasies.

But readers love it too, and it works quite well for How-to stories, especially if they are based on true experiences.

And I still have other stories in first person on this site that have done quite well.

I think it just depends on the story.

But generally, I like third better. It's naughtier, more voyeuristic, for lack of a better word.

To me, anyway.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

To me First Person POV has two meanings. The first and obvious is the "I" telling the story.

The second is a little more involved. If you begin with "I was walking down the street one day and saw Virginia," it's just not right to switch immediately to Virginia and have her saying "I saw Wilber with a hardon."

The "I" should remain constant with one person, unless you tell your reader in advance that you are switching. The problem is "I" is an indefinate pronoun. Does "I" refer to Wilber or Virginia? Unless you tell the reader who "I" is when you switch, it becomes confusing.