An interesting argument-

[professorquixote]

I was talking to a classmate today who's currently fighting over custody for his kid (the mom is *nuts*)
and he was talking about his frustration about fighting over custody of his kid with the mother
And he said a quote that I will never forget -"If you put a dollar in a soda machine and the machine gives you a soda; does the soda belong to you or the machine?"

 

[Elenia26]

Are you seriously equating a child to a soda?

Besides, all these people - men and women alike - who find their ex "nuts" - well, you slept with the person, and thought they were OK then.

But I do sympathize with your friend, even if I don't sound like it. Child support and custody laws are severely against males in this country.

 

[BiBunny]

Are you seriously equating a child to a soda?

That's what we call an "analogy."

Besides, all these people - men and women alike - who find their ex "nuts" - well, you slept with the person, and thought they were OK then.

You'd be amazed at how well crazy people can hide their craziness when they want to.

But I do sympathize with your friend, even if I don't sound like it. Child support and custody laws are severely against males in this country.

No, you don't sound like it, and, yes, they are.

 

[professorquixote]

Are you seriously equating a child to a soda?

Besides, all these people - men and women alike - who find their ex "nuts" - well, you slept with the person, and thought they were OK then.

Oh no EVERYBODY knows she's nuts and he didn't think she was ok then.

 

[FurryFury]

Are you seriously equating a child to a soda?

Besides, all these people - men and women alike - who find their ex "nuts" - well, you slept with the person, and thought they were OK then.

But I do sympathize with your friend, even if I don't sound like it. Child support and custody laws are severely against males in this country.

I'm actually glad that the bolded part is often true.

 

[intothewoods]

Actually, from what I've been reading, in many parts of the country, the default has become joint custody, regardless of whether it's really best for the kid. It's a complicated subject, but I'll just say that I don't think the bias against dads is as prevalent as it once was.

 

[FurryFury]

I was talking to a classmate today who's currently fighting over custody for his kid (the mom is *nuts*)
and he was talking about his frustration about fighting over custody of his kid with the mother
And he said a quote that I will never forget -"If you put a dollar in a soda machine and the machine gives you a soda; does the soda belong to you or the machine?"

Yes, I'd love to be considered a soft drink dispenser. I'd love my child to be considered something that could be owned (and consumed) as well, like a soda.

*that should be read as if it were dripping with HEAVY sarcasm, btw*

 

[FurryFury]

Actually, from what I've been reading, in many parts of the country, the default has become joint custody, regardless of whether it's really best for the kid. It's a complicated subject, but I'll just say that I don't think the bias against dads is as prevalent as it once was.

That's true and sadly it's very often NOT what is best for the child. Legally the child is still considered property.

One would assume intuitively that a child would be better off with joint custody and the involvement of both bio parents.

In so many cases that arrangement leads to the child being caught in the middle of constantly waring parents, constantly changing rules and many more highly toxic things.

 

[EmpressFi]

My first husband hid is craziness very well for the first year we were married... so sometimes .. yeah..people dont know that the other person is nuts. Also, sometimes the divorce/child custody proceedings make a person bitter and insane, they dont see their kids as kids anymore but just one more thing they can take from their ex.

 

[intothewoods]

Well this thread is just sunshine and rainbows!

 

[00Syd]

I was talking to a classmate today who's currently fighting over custody for his kid (the mom is *nuts*)
and he was talking about his frustration about fighting over custody of his kid with the mother
And he said a quote that I will never forget -"If you put a dollar in a soda machine and the machine gives you a soda; does the soda belong to you or the machine?"

I think that that analogy overly simplifies the situation, and not in a "now its more easy to understand" way.

 

[sereneone4u]

Sadly, it has not equalized and it is still the norm for men to be totally shafted in family court. Equally sad is that women recieve the same treatment when it comes to them being battered, raped, and/or murdered. Regardless of the law or justice, there are a lot of judges that rule by stereotypes...

 

[sereneone4u]

Bad analogy...a child is a gift, not a possession. Parents need to love their children more than they despise their ex-spouse. I know that there are times that one parent IS detrimental to the child and that needs to be addressed, but not to the extreme that it is pulled in courts.

 

[Netzach]

Actually, from what I've been reading, in many parts of the country, the default has become joint custody, regardless of whether it's really best for the kid. It's a complicated subject, but I'll just say that I don't think the bias against dads is as prevalent as it once was.

Yes.

You have to be a mass murderer not to have custody rights and I can't count on both hands the number of women I know who are paralyzed into living in small towns where they are overqualified for jobs, but can't move because of court mandated visits. It's insanely swung the other way.

Also, if you stick your dollar in an obviously run down and shitty machine, you deserve what you get. And it takes two to fuck up, it always does. I'm very wary of people constantly involved with the crazy and just so unable to see it, there's often a lot of projection involved.

 

[EmpressFi]

I witnessed the saddest thing recently.. my two friends have joint custody, for now. She lives in Minnesota, he lives in PA. Every two months, they fly back and forth and exchange their son. He's 4. He knows 2 addresses, 2 phone numbers, 2 pre-school teachers and classes.. (In PA he's a monkey, in MN, he's a ladybug). By and large, he seems to have adjusted well. They've been doing this since he was two.. so this is normal for him. What was sad for me to see, was these two adults who really love their son, playing the "who knows him more" game at lunch. From everything to what he likes to eat for lunch to which pajamas he likes to wear during a movie.. each one of them knew it best.. I was exhausted and felt for him to be in the middle. I wanted to smack them both.

 

[sereneone4u]

I witnessed the saddest thing recently.. my two friends have joint custody, for now. She lives in Minnesota, he lives in PA. Every two months, they fly back and forth and exchange their son. He's 4. He knows 2 addresses, 2 phone numbers, 2 pre-school teachers and classes.. (In PA he's a monkey, in MN, he's a ladybug). By and large, he seems to have adjusted well. They've been doing this since he was two.. so this is normal for him. What was sad for me to see, was these two adults who really love their son, playing the "who knows him more" game at lunch. From everything to what he likes to eat for lunch to which pajamas he likes to wear during a movie.. each one of them knew it best.. I was exhausted and felt for him to be in the middle. I wanted to smack them both.

That is just ridiculous. One of them needs to move closer to the other and be in therapy, parenting is not a competition.

 

[madetotakeit]

I'll just assume that the comparison to his child and a soda was out of extreme frustration and not thinking about the implications of his statement.

The courts are better than they once were about giving fathers rights, but from the guys I know who are in custody situations, it isn't to the point of where it should be. That is judging both parents and giving primary custody to the one that is best for the child. I have a friend whose child's mother has primary custody even though she has chosen to only see her child two days a week. Guess who is footing most of the bills. He keeps a positive attitude though. Rather than complain about the financial situation and the fact that he is unable to move away from the area, he is thankful for all of the time he has with his son. So far he hasn't missed a single milestone.

 

[intothewoods]

I witnessed the saddest thing recently.. my two friends have joint custody, for now. She lives in Minnesota, he lives in PA. Every two months, they fly back and forth and exchange their son. He's 4. He knows 2 addresses, 2 phone numbers, 2 pre-school teachers and classes.. (In PA he's a monkey, in MN, he's a ladybug). By and large, he seems to have adjusted well. They've been doing this since he was two.. so this is normal for him. What was sad for me to see, was these two adults who really love their son, playing the "who knows him more" game at lunch. From everything to what he likes to eat for lunch to which pajamas he likes to wear during a movie.. each one of them knew it best.. I was exhausted and felt for him to be in the middle. I wanted to smack them both.

That breaks my heart. I can't imagine being away from my child for 2 months. <shudder>

 

[sanjuaneros]

Agreed.

That is just ridiculous. One of them needs to move closer to the other and be in therapy, parenting is not a competition.

 

[HottieMama]

I witnessed the saddest thing recently.. my two friends have joint custody, for now. She lives in Minnesota, he lives in PA. Every two months, they fly back and forth and exchange their son. He's 4. He knows 2 addresses, 2 phone numbers, 2 pre-school teachers and classes.. (In PA he's a monkey, in MN, he's a ladybug). By and large, he seems to have adjusted well. They've been doing this since he was two.. so this is normal for him. What was sad for me to see, was these two adults who really love their son, playing the "who knows him more" game at lunch. From everything to what he likes to eat for lunch to which pajamas he likes to wear during a movie.. each one of them knew it best.. I was exhausted and felt for him to be in the middle. I wanted to smack them both.

Oh that's just a hot mess of horseshit!!!!

I resent the analogy of comparing a child to a can of soda, and me to a soda machine, and it will be a LONG COLD DAY in HELL before ANYONE, EVER, EVER, EVER takes my kids away from me.

 

[FurryFury]

My first husband hid is craziness very well for the first year we were married... so sometimes .. yeah..people dont know that the other person is nuts. Also, sometimes the divorce/child custody proceedings make a person bitter and insane, they dont see their kids as kids anymore but just one more thing they can take from their ex.

I agree. There may have been "signs" but mostly my ex hid his craziness from me. I'd admit I was self deluded about what was going on as well.

 

[FurryFury]

I witnessed the saddest thing recently.. my two friends have joint custody, for now. She lives in Minnesota, he lives in PA. Every two months, they fly back and forth and exchange their son. He's 4. He knows 2 addresses, 2 phone numbers, 2 pre-school teachers and classes.. (In PA he's a monkey, in MN, he's a ladybug). By and large, he seems to have adjusted well. They've been doing this since he was two.. so this is normal for him. What was sad for me to see, was these two adults who really love their son, playing the "who knows him more" game at lunch. From everything to what he likes to eat for lunch to which pajamas he likes to wear during a movie.. each one of them knew it best.. I was exhausted and felt for him to be in the middle. I wanted to smack them both.

This is a King Solomon situation. One or both of the adults should love the child enough to do what is best instead of trying to divide him like that. That's absolutely ridiculous. The courts are crazy to arrange something like that.

 

[FurryFury]

I'll just assume that the comparison to his child and a soda was out of extreme frustration and not thinking about the implications of his statement.

The courts are better than they once were about giving fathers rights, but from the guys I know who are in custody situations, it isn't to the point of where it should be. That is judging both parents and giving primary custody to the one that is best for the child. I have a friend whose child's mother has primary custody even though she has chosen to only see her child two days a week. Guess who is footing most of the bills. He keeps a positive attitude though. Rather than complain about the financial situation and the fact that he is unable to move away from the area, he is thankful for all of the time he has with his son. So far he hasn't missed a single milestone.

How should the status of "best" parent be decided? What is the criteria?

 

[FurryFury]

Yes.

You have to be a mass murderer not to have custody rights and I can't count on both hands the number of women I know who are paralyzed into living in small towns where they are overqualified for jobs, but can't move because of court mandated visits. It's insanely swung the other way.

Also, if you stick your dollar in an obviously run down and shitty machine, you deserve what you get. And it takes two to fuck up, it always does. I'm very wary of people constantly involved with the crazy and just so unable to see it, there's often a lot of projection involved.

I agree the you can't move thing is really crippling for many. I'd feel trapped. I know when I feel trapped that isn't a healthy thing for me or anyone around me.

 

[madetotakeit]

How should the status of "best" parent be decided? What is the criteria?

IMO all things need to be considered. Stability of mind being high on the list. If I had the perfect answer I would be submitting it to all states for consideration. However I think that states arbitrarily deferring to the mother or swinging in the opposite direction and giving primary to the father in an attempt to be progressive fails too many times. Each case is individual and should be looked at as such.