Book Talk

[Angeline]

How do you choose which poems go into a book? I know there are people here who have published chapbooks or edited poetry books. Choosing the poems obviously isn't haphazard (and if it is, I suspect the end product looks equally haphazard). Many of us here have hundreds (if not more!) of poems we've written sitting in journals or on disc drives. How do you pick which ones fit together? Is it theme? Form (for the form writers)? Do you edit poems to make the fit more obvious? What's your process? And it you haven't done this, what do you think would work?

Inquiring minds and all.

 

[champagne1982]

Well, you well understand the angst I go through to choose poems for submission to magazines. It must be totally agonizing to assemble a manuscript. Maybe, the best way would be to find a couple of key words and then see if the poems all work together, thematically. Like spring, rain, buds and flowers would grab some timely seasonal poems, I'll bet or death, tears, mourn will complete your elegy collection. Hopefully, some of our successful chapbook celebs will be along to cue us in on this one.

Good idea, Ange.

 

[annaswirls]

Thank you for posting this! I have had the best intentions of putting together a chapbook over the past 2 years. I have files where I have tried, and failed, to put collections together.

My current thoughts are to group poems by not as much theme but taste. I have a bunch of raunchier poems with other harsh themes I think would offend certain publishers. Not that I would change them, just not include them in a given collection.... but keep them together and maybe submit to someone who is more likely to accept and enjoy them.

Then I have some that are more easily accessible. Of those, I think I have three main themes: man and his relationship with technological advances, the pain of transition- specifically for women, and disability-- mostly autism.

Maybe I need to keep a list here Might actually get me organized.


I think you already have collections naturally, Ange. You could do a Amante chapbook, no problem, and a full Jazz collection all ready for you. Just sort them like laundry, rinse them out, give em a spin, fold and send them out.

~J

 

[Angeline]

Well, you well understand the angst I go through to choose poems for submission to magazines. It must be totally agonizing to assemble a manuscript. Maybe, the best way would be to find a couple of key words and then see if the poems all work together, thematically. Like spring, rain, buds and flowers would grab some timely seasonal poems, I'll bet or death, tears, mourn will complete your elegy collection. Hopefully, some of our successful chapbook celebs will be along to cue us in on this one.

Good idea, Ange.

Choosing and editing poems for publication is always agonizing to me, too. I have a book of poems about my childhood (not published because well it's a long story) that exists only because darkmaas saw that I had a book there. This is definitely something for you to think about, girlie.

Thank you for posting this! I have had the best intentions of putting together a chapbook over the past 2 years. I have files where I have tried, and failed, to put collections together.

My current thoughts are to group poems by not as much theme but taste. I have a bunch of raunchier poems with other harsh themes I think would offend certain publishers. Not that I would change them, just not include them in a given collection.... but keep them together and maybe submit to someone who is more likely to accept and enjoy them.

Then I have some that are more easily accessible. Of those, I think I have three main themes: man and his relationship with technological advances, the pain of transition- specifically for women, and disability-- mostly autism.

Maybe I need to keep a list here Might actually get me organized.


I think you already have collections naturally, Ange. You could do a Amante chapbook, no problem, and a full Jazz collection all ready for you. Just sort them like laundry, rinse them out, give em a spin, fold and send them out.

~J

I love your list idea, J. Please use this thread for it (or start a list thread). I agree that I have the Amante poems (but not enough yet, I think), jazz poems, sonnets, the fairytale poems. Maybe I'll do a list, too. We could all help each other. I know it's very hard for me--with my own poems--to see how they all fit together.

 

[unpredictablebijou]

My deal is generally that first, I poke at things until they're half-dead. Sometimes for several years.

When I feel like I have about 60 pieces in which I can justify every single word, and I'm tired of them and never want to see them again, I start sorting them into sections; pieces that have the same feel or similar topics, or which create a process of some sort. A few, even if they're good, don't fit anywhere, so I leave them for some other project.

The first collection was really a process all the way through; five sections, each with eight to ten pieces, and it could almost be seen as one long piece. The second collection actually had a couple of pieces of fiction in it as well, because they fit with the ideas in the various sections. That one, too, had a really consistent theme.

The third collection was a lot looser; it's just basically a bunch of stuff I wanted off me. I did try to create a certain 'story arc' within the order, and I was just as picky as ever - started with about 75 that I'd show to anyone anywhere, and still took out a bunch that didn't fit or that I didn't think had general enough appeal. I ended up with about 55 pieces in that one.

I had a professor actually graph out for me once how to put a collection together - one puts the absolute strongest pieces at the beginning and end, and a few that you're completely confident about right in the middle, and the gaps between those three peaks is where you put the stuff you're less confident about, in terms of their general appeal or accessibility. Not so much the weaker pieces as the more "challenging" ones.

I've always followed this particular advice and as a result I really have no regrets about how I ordered pieces in the various books; nothing I wish now I could have done differently. It seems to work very well.

anyway, that's my method, for what it's worth.

bj

 

[Eluard]

beej — are these books published? Printed?

 

[unpredictablebijou]

beej — are these books published? Printed?

I have never tried to get a publisher to do anything with them. I have desktop printed the chapbooks. If I were to rummage around, I could probably find copies of them.

There was also a point when one of the mates put them all in PFD, or BFD, or whatever it is - that format that would make them look good on a computer screen. Those discs are around as well.

I haven't bothered to print copies for years, but I would, upon request. I sold a fair amount off the shelf in my shop for a while, but eventually ran out and didn't bother to print another batch.

The neato recent news is that I bartered with an old college roommate and she's going to try to agent the essay collections for me. Those are a whole separate project and have also been printed in chapbook form a couple of times. I've also done a four-disk recording set of the audio version of the essays, which sells occasionally. So you may yet see me on a book cover someday.

bj

 

[Eluard]

I see. Well maybe you should run off some more copies. (I assume you did this in Word and printed them off on a laser printer? How laid out? Two to a page and double-sided? Stapled binding?) If you find the pdfs you could send them out to some people here.

 

[unpredictablebijou]

I see. Well maybe you should run off some more copies. (I assume you did this in Word and printed them off on a laser printer? How laid out? Two to a page and double-sided? Stapled binding?) If you find the pdfs you could send them out to some people here.

Y'know, you inspire me. That's a project I really ought to get back to.

PDF! That's the term I was looking for. Thank you. I was pretty sure it wasn't BFD.

I will ask the mate where the pdf's ended up, and how I might go about posting them somewhere. The re-printing takes some scratch I don't have right now, which is what keeps me from at least trying to have a few copies of each at the shop. But maybe if this month goes well...

The books were all 11 x 17 folded and staple-bound. I like that size and shape for a chapbook. Never had anyone do any cover art for me, though, so I'm still looking. Right now the covers are pretty damn boring.

You inspire me, doll.
bj

 

[champagne1982]

Y'know, you inspire me. That's a project I really ought to get back to.

PDF! That's the term I was looking for. Thank you. I was pretty sure it wasn't BFD.

I will ask the mate where the pdf's ended up, and how I might go about posting them somewhere. The re-printing takes some scratch I don't have right now, which is what keeps me from at least trying to have a few copies of each at the shop. But maybe if this month goes well...

The books were all 11 x 17 folded and staple-bound. I like that size and shape for a chapbook. Never had anyone do any cover art for me, though, so I'm still looking. Right now the covers are pretty damn boring.

You inspire me, doll.
bj

Have you cruised around the Artist's sub forum over at the hangout? There's a couple of excellent artists.. Then there's Eve who diddles with her camera ... oh I'm sure someone could create something wonderful. How about some sexy bead work on the covers? You'd be able to entice some spell weaving into the bindings that way. Each unique, you could charge a fortune for a upbj original.

 

[Eluard]

I do graphics which I intend to be used for book covers — I'll give them away to friends. I'll post some here if you like.

 

[Angeline]

Have you cruised around the Artist's sub forum over at the hangout? There's a couple of excellent artists.. Then there's Eve who diddles with her camera ... oh I'm sure someone could create something wonderful. How about some sexy bead work on the covers? You'd be able to entice some spell weaving into the bindings that way. Each unique, you could charge a fortune for a upbj original.

Bogusbrig is pretty handy with pen and ink. He did the drawings for the Barking Dog journals.

 

[unpredictablebijou]

Well hell, with all this talent just hanging about here, maybe I have a shot at some real art -- although a beaded cover is an intriguing thought.

Okay, I'm going to talk to the geeks in my life this weekend about making these texts available, and maybe one of you talented artists will do some cover art for them.

Course, there's a fourth collection getting assembled too at this point, much of it thanks to the drive and inspiration this place has given me.

Lotta Lit screen names in the special thanks section this time, I suspect...

bj

 

[Eluard]

Well hell, with all this talent just hanging about here, maybe I have a shot at some real art -- although a beaded cover is an intriguing thought.

Okay, I'm going to talk to the geeks in my life this weekend about making these texts available, and maybe one of you talented artists will do some cover art for them.

Course, there's a fourth collection getting assembled too at this point, much of it thanks to the drive and inspiration this place has given me.

Lotta Lit screen names in the special thanks section this time, I suspect...

bj

Covers are very special things and you have to choose the one that is exactly right for you. But here is something that I've done that might fit. One possibility.

http://usera.imagecave.com/Elurad/Newtown003_paintedsm.jpg

 

[PandoraGlitters]

Gorgeous, Eluard. And I think you are right that it might be a very good fit. Although I'd love to see a beaded cover too. Wow! What creative people you all are.

 

[unpredictablebijou]

Oooooo, El! Lovely!

One of the books is titled "Vixen Elixir" and that cover would, I think, fit quite, quite nicely.

Whaddya got for the titles "Mermaid Butter" and "Say the Magick Words"?

bj

 

[Eluard]

Thanks you two. Nothing for Mermaid Butter I don't think, but Magic Words is something I could probably match.

here is a bit of background on the picture:

When I was in the museums of Greece I was looking for vases that were 1200bc, roughly contemporaneous with the Trojan War. I expected them to have pictures of Acheaen heroes. Not at all! One after another vase had images of gigantic octopii — with frightening vortex eyes, and tentacles that spread around the vase. The faces at the top of the image are one of those octopii from one such vase in the Museum of Thera (Santorini).

 

[annaswirls]

Choosing and editing poems for publication is always agonizing to me, too. I have a book of poems about my childhood (not published because well it's a long story) that exists only because darkmaas saw that I had a book there. This is definitely something for you to think about, girlie.



I love your list idea, J. Please use this thread for it (or start a list thread). I agree that I have the Amante poems (but not enough yet, I think), jazz poems, sonnets, the fairytale poems. Maybe I'll do a list, too. We could all help each other. I know it's very hard for me--with my own poems--to see how they all fit together.

Good idea! It is sometimes easier to find and get to things like this in the forum than on my messy desktop. I also forget I have done something already and then re-do it grrrr. I am so inefficient!