Subconscious Manipulation

[SweetGigi]

I am coming to the awareness of the fact that I have manipulative tendencies. (I don't know if tendencies is a good word or not, but that is what we are going with for now.) It seems this is a quality I have acquired over time for some reason and never realized about myself; apparently it is subconscious. Is there anyone else here who has this issue? How did deal or are you dealing with it? Is there any sort of advice you could give to someone who realizes this is a trait that pushes good people away and wants to do away with issue all together?

 

[A Desert Rose]

I am coming to the awareness of the fact that I have manipulative tendencies. (I don't know if tendencies is a good word or not, but that is what we are going with for now.) It seems this is a quality I have acquired over time for some reason and never realized about myself; apparently it is subconscious. Is there anyone else here who has this issue? How did deal or are you dealing with it? Is there any sort of advice you could give to someone who realizes this is a trait that pushes good people away and wants to do away with issue all together?

Don't take your eyes off the watch...

Your eyes are getting heavy...

You're feeling sleepy...

sleeeeepy...

very sleepy...

 

[SweetGigi]

heh,

I wish it were only that easy.

 

[A Desert Rose]

heh,

I wish it were only that easy.

It is... I'm manipulating you.

Now, cooperate.

 

[intothewoods]

I am coming to the awareness of the fact that I have manipulative tendencies. (I don't know if tendencies is a good word or not, but that is what we are going with for now.) It seems this is a quality I have acquired over time for some reason and never realized about myself; apparently it is subconscious. Is there anyone else here who has this issue? How did deal or are you dealing with it? Is there any sort of advice you could give to someone who realizes this is a trait that pushes good people away and wants to do away with issue all together?

I'm not manipulative, but I haven't always been totally direct about my own needs and desires. I've found that communication has become even better since I've learned to state what I want and need, and where I'm coming from, at the outset. Now, we may very well negotiate from that point. But at the end of the day, Mister Man isn't a mind reader.

Don't take your eyes off the watch...

Your eyes are getting heavy...

You're feeling sleepy...

sleeeeepy...

very sleepy...

Hee hee hee. You're funny!

 

[00Syd]

I've always believed that people, for the most part, are manipulative without realizing it, subconsciously like you say, just because I find it hard to believe that people would consciously do stuff like that. I decided that must be the case the first time I ever encountered any really manipulative people, back in middle school. I just couldn't believe people would be that mean on purpose. But then, there are really calculating people who actually are that manipulating on purpose. That's something I just cannot fathom.

 

[faeriefire]

The title made me think of 'mean girls' but I guess that was more deliberate *shrug* Gigi, do you know why you're doing it? I grew up with a world class manipulator pulling the strings in my family. It can really hurt people even if it is entirely unintentional. From what I saw in my family the issue comes down to respect. And maintaining control of others b/c of a sense of not being in control of oneself. I don't know exactly how far your brand of puppet-mastery goes or how ingrained it is, but if you can figure out why you feel the need to influence others as opposed to being direct then it might help. To some degree I think most people have it in them to be manipulative and are from time to time. But there are also people who usually aren't. And there are people who manipulate for their own gain and sometimes their own loss. Do you have any idea why it is you are doing this? Because at least in my family when the root insecurity was addressed the manipulation factor went down drastically...hope this helps

 

[Homburg]

Yup. I can be very manipulative without even realising it. Usually it is little stuff, like leading conversations where I want them to go. Sometimes, though, I find myself just leading someone around by discourse and verbal manipulation. It's scary, and most commonly happens during arguments.

In general, I watch myself, and watch what I am doing. If I catch on that I'm doing it, I change tactics.

 

[YourCaptor]

I tend to bounce from friend to friend sometimes. For example I will get to know someone, they introduce me to someone else, and before I know it, I know the new person better then the old and really don’t spend much time with the old anymore.

That’s not really bad, except when I do it with ladies who are a bit infatuated with me.

I also know exactly what kind of a person specific people like, so sometimes I play that role to get things rolling past awkward times. The opposite of that is also true.

 

[alexanna]

You might try researching Borderline Personality Disorder. People with BPD tend to be very manipulative, often without realizing it. Coincidentally they also often have masochistic tendencies and gravitate to BDSM. i tend to believe we're all somewhere on the spectrum for just about all the psycho babble disorders out there and learning about the extremes may be be helpful, if not interesting, if you happen to have more of those tendencies. i personally identify very heavily with BPD types and can be extremely manipulative. Sometimes i'm aware, sometimes i'm not but simply becoming aware of the tendency has helped a lot.

 

[SweetGigi]

The title made me think of 'mean girls' but I guess that was more deliberate *shrug* Gigi, do you know why you're doing it? I grew up with a world class manipulator pulling the strings in my family. It can really hurt people even if it is entirely unintentional. From what I saw in my family the issue comes down to respect. And maintaining control of others b/c of a sense of not being in control of oneself. I don't know exactly how far your brand of puppet-mastery goes or how ingrained it is, but if you can figure out why you feel the need to influence others as opposed to being direct then it might help. To some degree I think most people have it in them to be manipulative and are from time to time. But there are also people who usually aren't. And there are people who manipulate for their own gain and sometimes their own loss. Do you have any idea why it is you are doing this? Because at least in my family when the root insecurity was addressed the manipulation factor went down drastically...hope this helps

Ok, since your post is really hard to sift through, I am gonna respond accordingly. I am gonna try to not take anything you said here personally either since I know you didn't mean to dig into me because of your own personal experiences.

.... Gigi, do you know why you're doing it?....

Why does anybody manipulate? Whether it is subconscious or not, when we do it, its because we want something. I've never known of someone to twist things for any other reason.

....I grew up with a world class manipulator pulling the strings in my family. It can really hurt people even if it is entirely unintentional....

So did I. My mother can twist your gut faster than she can hug your neck. I know she doesn't do it b/c she hates me or because she is spiteful. I've come I realize she learned this trait from her mother, who was a really troubled woman by the way, and I, in turn, learned it from her. I don't hold her 'responsible' in a negative fashion. That would be like holding a child responsible for breaking a glass. She doesn't know any better and why would she change a trait that has always worked for her in the past? Instead of holding it against her (which is a form of manipulation in and of itself) I am choosing to forgive her for it and hope that with time and work we can both learn to work through it and grow.

....From what I saw in my family the issue comes down to respect. And maintaining control of others b/c of a sense of not being in control of oneself....

There might be some validity to this point, but I think it isn't entirely true for everyone. I don't think my mother or I do this out of the lack of control we have in our own lives or a lack of respect we have for one another, but rather because it was a learned response that got us whatever we wanted when ever we wanted it. My grandmother, mother and I were/are very attractive women and even though we each have our personal rejection, self image, loneliness issues, I truly think the root of our manipulation is because of learned response.

....I don't know exactly how far your brand of puppet-mastery goes or how ingrained it is, but if you can figure out why you feel the need to influence others as opposed to being direct then it might help....

This is the phrase I am choosing to not let get to me. I am speaking out to it because I want you to know it really hit a nerve in me I don't think you were intending to strike. I don't think there was a need to use this negative connotation, but seeing how you have been effected by this sort of abuse in the past, I can understand why it would be reflected and used in your comment. I am trying to get to the root of why I do what I do. Through some great friends and some personal reflection I am coming to the realization of who I fully am. Looking for more insight is what this thread is for.


Thanks for your input. I hope your situation improves too.

 

[myinnerslut]

yes, i can manipulate, and i can do it well. i dont often realize im doing it and i try like hell to avoid doing it within my relationship becuase i find it distateful behavior in myself.

 

[faeriefire]

I'm so sorry Gigi if my words hurt you. I did not intend them to be mean at all, but I can see on second reading why they would seem that way. From speaking with you and reading your lit posts I have nothing but utmost respect for you. And I think it's awesome that you are willing to share your thoughts here. I should have made it clear that my descriptors were hearkening back to my family situation. In the rereading I see how it sounded as though I was lumping you in with my mom and I do apologize for that. I really doubt you are anything like her lol. That you are here trying to understand yourself speaks volumes. Introspection and self-discovery are incredible and I hope my poor wording doesn't put a damper on your realizations. Again, your willingness to put yourself out there and share really is awesome. It's much easier to talk about the things we like about ourselves sometimes, than the things we see as negative.

For myself I can relate to manipulation being a learned behavior. My mom learned from her mom. I learned from mine. For me I wish I could say I'm not manipulative, but I know that sometimes I do exactly what YC mentioned as well as some others above. I think the saving grace really is being aware. If I don't realize I'm doing it I can't stop...and I thank you for sharing because this train of thought just might help me become more aware as well...

 

[intothewoods]

I've always believed that people, for the most part, are manipulative without realizing it, subconsciously like you say, just because I find it hard to believe that people would consciously do stuff like that. I decided that must be the case the first time I ever encountered any really manipulative people, back in middle school. I just couldn't believe people would be that mean on purpose. But then, there are really calculating people who actually are that manipulating on purpose. That's something I just cannot fathom.

You know, this is a great post. We all subconsciously try to manipulate to a certain degree. Are we talking about passive agressive behavior? Are we talking about being pushy?

 

[Homburg]

You know, this is a great post. We all subconsciously try to manipulate to a certain degree. Are we talking about passive agressive behavior? Are we talking about being pushy?

Nothing passive about my aggressive.

 

[intothewoods]

Nothing passive about my aggressive.

That's my point. I'm not sure exactly what we're talking about here. We all use language to reach an end goal of some sort, and it's all a form of subconscious manipulation.

 

[SweetGigi]

I'm so sorry Gigi if my words hurt you. I did not intend them to be mean at all, but I can see on second reading why they would seem that way. From speaking with you and reading your lit posts I have nothing but utmost respect for you. And I think it's awesome that you are willing to share your thoughts here. I should have made it clear that my descriptors were hearkening back to my family situation. In the rereading I see how it sounded as though I was lumping you in with my mom and I do apologize for that. I really doubt you are anything like her lol. That you are here trying to understand yourself speaks volumes. Introspection and self-discovery are incredible and I hope my poor wording doesn't put a damper on your realizations. Again, your willingness to put yourself out there and share really is awesome. It's much easier to talk about the things we like about ourselves sometimes, than the things we see as negative.

For myself I can relate to manipulation being a learned behavior. My mom learned from her mom. I learned from mine. For me I wish I could say I'm not manipulative, but I know that sometimes I do exactly what YC mentioned as well as some others above. I think the saving grace really is being aware. If I don't realize I'm doing it I can't stop...and I thank you for sharing because this train of thought just might help me become more aware as well...

*squee* we good, girl.

You know, this is a great post. We all subconsciously try to manipulate to a certain degree. Are we talking about passive agressive behavior? Are we talking about being pushy?

I suppose we are talking about all forms of subconscious manipulation. Both can and are dangerous and hurtful, so why not address them both?

 

[Homburg]

That's my point. I'm not sure exactly what we're talking about here. We all use language to reach an end goal of some sort, and it's all a form of subconscious manipulation.

Very true, and part of the core issue here. What I do is different from what Gigi is describing, and, by and large, is fairly natural. Some people take it farther. In my case, I realise what I am doing sometimes and put a stop to it, because it is not how I want to treat that person.

 

[intothewoods]

I suppose we are talking about all forms of subconscious manipulation. Both can and are dangerous and hurtful, so why not address them both?

Ok. I suppose in both cases, one simply needs to remind oneself to focus on being direct and assertive, without being aggressive (whether passively aggressive or pushy/bossy/etc.).

I have actually been told by a few people that I sometimes get louder than I'm aware of. I don't even notice it. I'm just very passionate and I project when I speak. But I now take time to take a deep breathe and make sure the other person feels heard. In work situations, I try and repeat back what the person is saying to me, so they know I get where they're coming from. In personal situations, if the conversation is getting too emotional and not productive, I try and calm down and restate my point of view in a more neutral way. Avoid accusation and defensiveness.

There is also this thing of winning the argument just to win. I am very stubborn, and am dating someone who is very stubborn. Frankly, everyone in my life is very stubborn when I think about it! If it seems like it's a battle of wills, I will try and think about it from a different angle, and see the other person's point of view. I'm lucky in that my PYL is more or less like me on this. He's stubborn, but he's not pig-headed.

I guess another important point is learning how to listen. You should be assertive enough to state your needs and point of view directly, but not aggressive to the point you don't hear and respect the person on the other side of the conversation.

 

[00Syd]

You know, this is a great post. We all subconsciously try to manipulate to a certain degree. Are we talking about passive agressive behavior? Are we talking about being pushy?

(thanks )

I do think passive aggressive behavior can fall under the label of "subconscious manipulation." My mother can be very passive aggressive, but I think she honestly doesn't realize it. Maybe I'm just naive. I will find myself saying things knowing that people will respond in a certain way, never about anything serious, but just in conversation or when I'm being playful, and is that manipulation even if its not malicious?

 

[SweetGigi]

(thanks )

I do think passive aggressive behavior can fall under the label of "subconscious manipulation." My mother can be very passive aggressive, but I think she honestly doesn't realize it. Maybe I'm just naive. I will find myself saying things knowing that people will respond in a certain way, never about anything serious, but just in conversation or when I'm being playful, and is that manipulation even if its not malicious?

From what I understand and have been told by my friends, yes.

It apparently puts the speaker in the negative light that they are actually trying to remove in the first place.

 

[00Syd]

<snip>
There is also this thing of winning the argument just to win. I am very stubborn, and am dating someone who is very stubborn. Frankly, everyone in my life is very stubborn when I think about it! If it seems like it's a battle of wills, I will try and think about it from a different angle, and see the other person's point of view. I'm lucky in that my PYL is more or less like me on this. He's stubborn, but he's not pig-headed.
<snip>

I am also incredibly stubborn... and thats something I've been making a conscious effort to work on. I am stubborn when talking to people, in arguments, when people introduce me to new music, even when people are trying their damnedest to help me. I realize it and it hurts to know that I am hurting other people, thwarting their attempts to help me. I have to imagine that I must be a very frustrating person. I do think it just comes down to a battle of wills, knowing that I was able to hold out longer. I've been trying to realize when I'm doing it and stop but I usually don't until someone (often my bf) says "stop being so stubborn!" I think thats a largely subconscious thing for me, I don't realize it. Maybe thats similar to the subconscious manipulation idea. Maybe its just about harmful subconscious behaviors in general.

 

[00Syd]

From what I understand and have been told by my friends, yes.

It apparently puts the speaker in the negative light that they are actually trying to remove in the first place.

I'v never really thought about it. I mean, I feel like manipulation itself is just a bad word, a negative action, and I don't think what I'm doing is with any mean intentions. I'll be with my bf and say something that I know will get him to kiss me. I think everyone does that, but is that manipulation? Is that a bad thing even though it ends with something good?

 

[rosco rathbone]

I've always found that passive, underhanded manipulative thing that a lot of "submissive women" have to be very attractive, in a fucked-up chemical way. I don't seem to be able to maintain a constant interest in anyone who doesn't have the seductive, fickle trickiness. Keeps me on toes.

 

[LibraStud]

If you watch little children grow up, you see how they try to manipulate their parents. It is part of being selfish as a child, IMO.

I think that as one matures, you realize that everybody does things their way, and my way might not be the best way for everyone! If you find yourself
trying to get people to agree with your way of doing things, I would suggest
maybe going through a 4 to 6 week period of denying yourself this and let others take the lead. Then, look backwards and see what happened and how you feel! By the way that is what I did and I now am better off for it!