Tax Freedom Day

[R. Richard]

Today, 23 April 2008, is tax freedom day. In average, each of us works until 23 April 2008 just to pay taxes and nothing left over for anything else. So, what do you get for your taxes?

"In 2008, Americans will work 74 days to afford their federal taxes and 39 more days to pay state and local taxes. Meanwhile, buying food requires 35 days of work, clothing 13 days, and housing 60 days. Other major categories are health and medical care (50 days), transportation (29 days), and recreation (21 days)."

 

[Boxlicker101]

Today, 23 April 2008, is tax freedom day. In average, each of us works until 23 April 2008 just to pay taxes and nothing left over for anything else. So, what do you get for your taxes?

"In 2008, Americans will work 74 days to afford their federal taxes and 39 more days to pay state and local taxes. Meanwhile, buying food requires 35 days of work, clothing 13 days, and housing 60 days. Other major categories are health and medical care (50 days), transportation (29 days), and recreation (21 days)."

Actually, this is an average, and varies so widely from one person to another as to be not very meaningful. Furthermore, it probably does not take sales taxes and excise taxes into consideration. Does it include Social Security taxes? Many people will never derive any benefit from them, although they may pay them for many years. My first two wives, for examples, paid into the fund all their working lives, but died before they could receive any benefits, and I only received a small percentage of what they and their employers had paid in.

 

[oggbashan]

In the UK it doesn't happen until 3 June.

However there is no such thing as a Tax Freedom Day.

We pay VAT on most of our purchases, high taxes on fuel and that adds cost to everything we buy including food that appears untaxed, taxes on property ownership, taxes on investments etc.

There is nothing certain except death and taxes.

Og

 

[amicus]

Thanks, R.Richard, for the reminder.

In another perspective, your figures indicate that about a third or your life, a half of Ogg's is spent working for others and not yourself and your family.

Most don't seem to care, one way or the other, go figure.

Amicus...

 

[oggbashan]

Thanks, R.Richard, for the reminder.

In another perspective, your figures indicate that about a third or your life, a half of Ogg's is spent working for others and not yourself and your family.

Most don't seem to care, one way or the other, go figure.

Amicus...

We have different perspectives.

No one likes paying taxes and never did.

But I know that if I, or anyone I care for, becomes ill, they will get medical treatment without needing to check their (or my) bank balance.

Tax Freedom Day doesn't reflect the reality of the taxes you or I pay. It is a simplistic concept. The real measure is how much "government" in its widest definition costs the nation and how much the nation gets for its taxes.

I am well aware that US taxpayers pay a Defence budget that includes cover for me and my country. I too pay taxes for Defence and my friends and neighbours kids are in Iraq and Afghanistan.

We depend on each other.

Og

 

[R. Richard]

There is nothing certain except death and taxes.

Og

However, they are working on death.

 

[R. Richard]

We have different perspectives.

No one likes paying taxes and never did.

But I know that if I, or anyone I care for, becomes ill, they will get medical treatment without needing to check their (or my) bank balance.

Tax Freedom Day doesn't reflect the reality of the taxes you or I pay. It is a simplistic concept. The real measure is how much "government" in its widest definition costs the nation and how much the nation gets for its taxes.

I am well aware that US taxpayers pay a Defence budget that includes cover for me and my country. I too pay taxes for Defence and my friends and neighbours kids are in Iraq and Afghanistan.

We depend on each other.

Og

I understand the need to pay taxes for defense. I undertand the need to pay taxes for things like roads, particularly roads like our interstate system here.

As to medical treatment, what kind and quality of medical treatment are we talking about? The US doesn't have national health care, Canada does. Canadians coe to the US t get timel, quality health care. Admitedly, some US citizens take advantage of the lower Canadian cost for prescrption drugs, but that will go away if many US cirizens try the tactic.

My complaint is that I receive little but national defense and interstate infrastructure for my taxes.

 

[oggbashan]

...

As to medical treatment, what kind and quality of medical treatment are we talking about? The US doesn't have national health care, Canada does. Canadians come to the US to get timely, quality health care. Admittedly, some US citizens take advantage of the lower Canadian cost for prescription drugs, but that will go away if many US citizens try the tactic.

...

In the UK the National Health Service's emergency care is the best we can get.

If we want fast treatment for cold surgery i.e. surgery that can wait without serious decline in quality of life, we can pay for it privately by ourselves or through various levels of health insurance, or through employer or union schemes - or we wait until the National Health Service can provide.

We have choice if we can pay. If we can't pay or don't want to pay the National Health Service will treat us - whatever the eventual cost.

Many of us have to pay a standard charge for prescriptions. If you are under 16 or over 60 prescriptions are free. If you live in Scotland or Wales the rules for prescription charges are different (and better).

Og

 

[jeninflorida]

you know what about be amazing, is if they would remove all the school boards accross the country and replace it with one and then scale back the federal education system. talk about billions being wasted each year. after all there is no difference in a child growing up in new york, vs new mexico...maybe then we can create something like Eruope (college or trade schools).

wisc had a great plan, welfare was not a career choice...but after the new gov. of that state rolled that back.

if some day we get an educated person that can cut the crap and pork... well life would be better.

Today, 23 April 2008, is tax freedom day. In average, each of us works until 23 April 2008 just to pay taxes and nothing left over for anything else. So, what do you get for your taxes?

"In 2008, Americans will work 74 days to afford their federal taxes and 39 more days to pay state and local taxes. Meanwhile, buying food requires 35 days of work, clothing 13 days, and housing 60 days. Other major categories are health and medical care (50 days), transportation (29 days), and recreation (21 days)."

 

[jeninflorida]

that is what scares me about hillary, she wants a universial health care system...which in some ways would be good. but I want to be on her plan the same plan that she has. one has to be on drugs if they think she will be on the universial health plan that she wants to pass...

In the UK the National Health Service's emergency care is the best we can get.

If we want fast treatment for cold surgery i.e. surgery that can wait without serious decline in quality of life, we can pay for it privately by ourselves or through various levels of health insurance, or through employer or union schemes - or we wait until the National Health Service can provide.

We have choice if we can pay. If we can't pay or don't want to pay the National Health Service will treat us - whatever the eventual cost.

Many of us have to pay a standard charge for prescriptions. If you are under 16 or over 60 prescriptions are free. If you live in Scotland or Wales the rules for prescription charges are different (and better).

Og

 

[Boxlicker101]

Thanks, R.Richard, for the reminder.

In another perspective, your figures indicate that about a third or your life, a half of Ogg's is spent working for others and not yourself and your family.

Most don't seem to care, one way or the other, go figure.

Amicus...

If you were to be really honest, you would admit that you and everybody else benefits at least some from the taxes we all pay. I will assume you drive on the streets and highways that somebody maintains and your children and/or grandchildren attend school and, if your house catches on fire, government employees will come and put it out.

At the same time, I benefit less than most from the taxes I pay. You probably do too. I have no children in school and I seldom use the airport and I have never called on the cops for help and received any. Most of my encounters with them have ended up with me in jail, or generally dissatisfied.

At the same time, it would be incorrect to say I get no benefit from the taxes I pay now.

 

[amicus]

If you were to be really honest, you would admit that you and everybody else benefits at least some from the taxes we all pay. I will assume you drive on the streets and highways that somebody maintains and your children and/or grandchildren attend school and, if your house catches on fire, government employees will come and put it out.

At the same time, I benefit less than most from the taxes I pay. You probably do too. I have no children in school and I seldom use the airport and I have never called on the cops for help and received any. Most of my encounters with them have ended up with me in jail, or generally dissatisfied.

At the same time, it would be incorrect to say I get no benefit from the taxes I pay now.

~~~

The ongoing debate between those who care, Box, is what benefits one receives for the taxes on pays, from top to bottom.

I prefer to sidestep that debate, as I always do, and direct my comments to the form of government the United States implemented with the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence.

The various Amendments to the Constitution has somewhat changed the flavor of stew and much of it, not to my liking.

It has, of course, been a matter of debate and contention from the very beginning with John Adams and Thomas Jefferson setting the base line between Federalists (big government) and the other side, ending up now as Republicans, who, for the most part, wish to adhere to the letter and spirit of the Constitution, and remain with small government supplying just the essential protections with a military, a police and court system and nothing more.

Most will not even question the necessity of such programs as mandatory public education and mandatory social security administered by government and funded by taxes.

I do question those two and many more social programs that were not part of the vision of the founders and not in the letter or spirit of the Constitution.

It is a lonely argument of late, but one I shall continue to defend; that grand experiment of individual rights and liberties and responsibilities to provide for ones self, as opposed to a benevolent King/big brother'father figure government to whom the people owe their existence and rights.

I suggest that we have had enough examples of 'command economies' controlled and directed by government and enough examples of oppression world wide, to convince most that those systems are not in the best interests of anyone.

The next phase was a mixture, such as Oggbashan seems to advocate, wherein government provides those services thought to be beyond the means of the individual.

The problem with that approach, which has also provided ample illustrations of its failings, is that government is greedy and seeks more and more power until it approaches that status of oppression and total regulation.

We don't all have the ability nor the luxury of being students of history to the point of being able to view objectively the lessons that history provides. I have been fortunate to have been able to consider these things at length and try to communicate my learning with others.

It is not the complexities of modern society that have demanded control from above, not at all and in fact, just the opposite. Individuals are more capable today than ever before to control their own assets and investments to benefit themselves and their progeny.

Those 'cradle to grave' advocates who wish and dream of comfort for each and every person, forget the essential, defining characteristic of human kind, that being the self esteem gained by providing for oneself through decisions freely made.

Again, in novels like 'Brave New World' and '1984', we have sufficient examples to realize that guaranteed security and comfort for every individual cannot be granted or given, it must be earned to have any value.

Public education has destroyed the very concept of learning and has turned into a treadmill of indoctrination that suits no end and please no one.

National Health programs have corrupted the medical profession to a point of bean counters and insurance scams and long lines in England and Canada unless you can pay above and beyond the taxation for private care.

Humans are stubborn I guess, we will have to learn the hard way that nothing is free and we must each earn our own way in this life.

I wonder just how far down society must decline before another Renaissance appears?

Amicus...

 

[oggbashan]

Brave New World and 1984 were written as criticisms of the Soviet state as practised by the Russians under Stalin.

George Orwell (Eric Blair) saw the Labour Government of 1948 (1984 was about 1948) as going the way of the Stalinists. We in the UK had severe restrictions on personal freedoms during 1939 to 1945 by a government of National Unity. What was accepted as the price of war was not acceptable to Orwell in 1948 (nor was it to most people which is why Labour lost the next election).

Orwell's 1984 had such an impact that the country changed direction away from state control. Much of what had been controlled during the war was gradually demolished. Nationalisation of industries took longer to break up. While there was justification for some of the changes that nationalisation brought, particularly in mining and the iron and steel industries, in some senses the solution brought different problems.

Orwell's book (and Animal Farm) had an impact on the political climate. Because he voiced what many people felt, his vision of 1984 never happened and people are still defending personal liberties in the UK. A UK policeman has fewer powers in practice than a US one. I can walk the streets or drive an automobile carrying no documentation at all. If a policeman stops me he has to justify his action (in practice since I'm me he doesn't because the local policemen stop me for a chat) and unless he has some reasonable suspicion that I have or am about to commit an offence he can't ask me to produce any evidence of identity except my verbal statement. Try that on a traffic cop in the US!

Og

 

[amicus]

Ogg, almost always a pleasure to cross swords with you and this is no exception.

Nice to know others view the two referenced works in somewhat the same way I intended but turned to your own advantage at a slight cost to mine.

Maybe I am still a little pissed that the Brits burned the White House in the war of 1812 and raised hell in the countryside.

Maybe because you lived through things in England that I only read about; perhaps because you have acquired through your lifetime the ability to compromise to facilitate solutions of necessity.

Much to the consternation of my offspring and others, I have remained somewhat of a 'Gadfly' buzzing around the ears of the 'believers' of all shades and colors.

In the wide spectrum of opinion, here and elsewhere, there should be a place for those 'purists' such as I, who advocate one view and no more. I have always thought the extremes define the center.

I be one of those extremes.

amicus...

 

[jeninflorida]

Does this include Property Tax, Sales Tax, this tax.....that tax? I can't remember if this is just for income tax or all taxes

Today, 23 April 2008, is tax freedom day. In average, each of us works until 23 April 2008 just to pay taxes and nothing left over for anything else. So, what do you get for your taxes?

"In 2008, Americans will work 74 days to afford their federal taxes and 39 more days to pay state and local taxes. Meanwhile, buying food requires 35 days of work, clothing 13 days, and housing 60 days. Other major categories are health and medical care (50 days), transportation (29 days), and recreation (21 days)."

 

[jeninflorida]

Education is such a wast of money! well, the people that run our educational system. I think for every $1,000 only $1 makes it to the teacher. Each school system if bloated and why do we have sooo many freaking school systems?

airports, how much comes from the general tax pool? I know that for Florida we pay a tax that goes to the air port for rental cars. also, when one purchases a ticket there is a port tax (same for cruise ships).

to be honest, I try not to pay that much attention to this...I can't make a change...so many of these goverment people and departs are so entrenched we can never remove them! lets be honest, we can prob termine 1/3 of goverment workers and not see a difference (excluding miltary, police, fire, and teachers).

If you were to be really honest, you would admit that you and everybody else benefits at least some from the taxes we all pay. I will assume you drive on the streets and highways that somebody maintains and your children and/or grandchildren attend school and, if your house catches on fire, government employees will come and put it out.

At the same time, I benefit less than most from the taxes I pay. You probably do too. I have no children in school and I seldom use the airport and I have never called on the cops for help and received any. Most of my encounters with them have ended up with me in jail, or generally dissatisfied.

At the same time, it would be incorrect to say I get no benefit from the taxes I pay now.

 

[amicus]

jeninflorida
Literotica Guru

~~~

I wonder just how much discomfort Americans will tolerate?

Property taxes, which support schools, are still being confiscated from retired people who have no children in school and are on fixed incomes yet are required to keep paying even thought the mortgage is paid off.

Sales tax on food in many states takes seven out of each one hundred dollars you spend.

When it begins to come to feeding your family or paying taxes...what will you do?

Hmmm...


amicus...

 

[jeninflorida]

Well, how much of a choice does one have to Tolerate it? What most american care about is jobs and jobs security. In that regard I can totally respect unions. however, what I can't respect is having hillary talk about jobs...jobs...jobs. What the hell does she know about having a job? she milked so many companies... is pimping out her husband and her daughter...oh wait, we all know that bill is 4 sale. at least with Bil, you feel good when he's doing you

jeninflorida
Literotica Guru

~~~

I wonder just how much discomfort Americans will tolerate?

Property taxes, which support schools, are still being confiscated from retired people who have no children in school and are on fixed incomes yet are required to keep paying even thought the mortgage is paid off.

Sales tax on food in many states takes seven out of each one hundred dollars you spend.

When it begins to come to feeding your family or paying taxes...what will you do?

Hmmm...


amicus...

 

[amicus]

Sighs, why me, God, why me...Jen...Union labor is what has destroyed all the manufacturing jobs in the US.

They destroyed the auto industry with their demands for high wages and benefits, twice as much as the average worker and then wonder why foreign cars swept the market.

They drove the steel industry into bankruptcy for the same reasons and union wages have driven factory and manufacturing jobs out of the country and now they are trying to destroy Walmart.

sorry I had to be the one to tell you but Unions are bad news for all but union members...teachers included...

ami

 

[jeninflorida]

wait....I'm 150% anti unions! the best way to destory a business or industry is to add a union. What I understand is how people feel security while being in a union...but what they don't realize is that a union will save a few jobs but over time will put a company out of business.....

Sighs, why me, God, why me...Jen...Union labor is what has destroyed all the manufacturing jobs in the US.

They destroyed the auto industry with their demands for high wages and benefits, twice as much as the average worker and then wonder why foreign cars swept the market.

They drove the steel industry into bankruptcy for the same reasons and union wages have driven factory and manufacturing jobs out of the country and now they are trying to destroy Walmart.

sorry I had to be the one to tell you but Unions are bad news for all but union members...teachers included...

ami

 

[amicus]

wait....I'm 150% anti unions! the best way to destory a business or industry is to add a union. What I understand is how people feel security while being in a union...but what they don't realize is that a union will save a few jobs but over time will put a company out of business.....

~~~

Pleased to read that...accept my apologies for the incorrect assumption?

ami...

 

[jeninflorida]

lol, please no worries!

~~~

Pleased to read that...accept my apologies for the incorrect assumption?

ami...

 

[R. Richard]

If you were to be really honest, you would admit that you and everybody else benefits at least some from the taxes we all pay. I will assume you drive on the streets and highways that somebody maintains and your children and/or grandchildren attend school and, if your house catches on fire, government employees will come and put it out.

In the town in which I live [or whatever it is that I'm doing,] the streets look like the surface of the moon. The schools are of the type where the parents have to read the diploma to the new graduate. The scumbags do support the local doughnut shops and almost nothing else. The firefighters I will tip my hat to. In New York City, they call firefighters the bravest. The same thing applies in the town in which I live. I have never had a fire [and hope to keep the string going!], however, the tax money spent on the fire department is money well spent.