Question about switching POV...

[Elianna]

Hey guys! So I'm writing a love scene and I keep wanting to switch point of view between the lovers to show what they both are feeling.

Up to this point, I have been very strict about delineating who is thinking what and have clustered the POV all together for each person. If I've switched POV in each section it's been a mistake. If you haven't read Falling into Darkness, you should know that I've told the story from both main characters' perspectives.

So the entire section up until this "love scene" is being told from one point of view.

Do you think I should just stick with making the sex sensation one-sided, or can I get away with switching between my lovers mid-section without clearly marking the changes?

Tell me what you think.

 

[where]

tricky one.

I like doing the same and The Screen does kind of have two POV in it but I had long fights with my editor about it! In the end we compromised a bit. The story I'm slowly working on actually has three POV and it's a bloody nightmare!

For all that, I like getting it from both sides as it were.

 

[Elianna]

Me, too. I think we should know how they BOTH are feeling at the moment...

I guess my concern is how awkward it will feel since I've been so strict about it. I suppose I could go back and tell it in memory from the other character's POV, but it's never as intense as the moment...

Three? Yikes!

 

[Fatwa_Morgana]

You could use a semi-omniscient third-person POV. That lets you get inside each of the characters' heads when appropriate, but doesn't leave the reader feeling jerked around and confused. Just a thought! Morgana

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Hey guys! So I'm writing a love scene and I keep wanting to switch point of view between the lovers to show what they both are feeling.

Up to this point, I have been very strict about delineating who is thinking what and have clustered the POV all together for each person. If I've switched POV in each section it's been a mistake. If you haven't read Falling into Darkness, you should know that I've told the story from both main characters' perspectives.

So the entire section up until this "love scene" is being told from one point of view.

Do you think I should just stick with making the sex sensation one-sided, or can I get away with switching between my lovers mid-section without clearly marking the changes?

Tell me what you think.

Elianna, you usually can't switch POVs within a scene. It just gets confused and breaks down your story. Maybe you should take another tact and stay with one POV and let both characters express their feeling and emotions in dialogue during or after the event. I think that's a lot cleaner.

 

[Isobael]

Me, too. I think we should know how they BOTH are feeling at the moment...

I guess my concern is how awkward it will feel since I've been so strict about it. I suppose I could go back and tell it in memory from the other character's POV, but it's never as intense as the moment...

Three? Yikes!

You could use the * * * marks...describe one POV first, then use the marks to notate that the POV is changing.

I've read novels where the POV changed in the same scene, they just changed to a new paragraph, and I never felt jerked around.

So I really don't understand why people say you can't change the POV in the same scene.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

If I don't post tomorrow, please call the feds and finger a woman in Oregon.

I think Jenny is completely wrong. If you narrate in third person omniscient, you are writing in more than one POV in every scene. The reason I hate first person is I never get a glimpse of what's in the other guy's head.

Where's sr when you need him?

"Adam watched with horror as Eve plucked the apple from the tree. He knew the future of the world had just changed irrevocably.

Eve batted her eyes at Adam as she bit lasciviously into the forbidden fruit the serpent had led her to. She desperately wanted the man to make love to her, she felt a hot moisture between her legs."

Jenny, what's wrong with that?

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

If I don't post tomorrow, please call the feds and finger a woman in Oregon.

I think Jenny is completely wrong. If you narrate in third person omniscient, you are writing in more than one POV in every scene. The reason I hate first person is I never get a glimpse of what's in the other guy's head.

Where's sr when you need him?

"Adam watched with horror as Eve plucked the apple from the tree. He knew the future of the world had just changed irrevocably.

Eve batted her eyes at Adam as she bit lasciviously into the forbidden fruit the serpent had led her to. She desperately wanted the man to make love to her, she felt a hot moisture between her legs."

Jenny, what's wrong with that?

Nothing, Elle. Isn't that what I said? You are letting the two protags describe the scene. But are you really changing POV? Or are you looking at it from a third person perspective - that is watching the actions and thought as an outsider.

I take the question to be something more like -

Adam was horrided at Eve's egotism when she snatched the apple. "What could she be thinking?" he wondered.
"I bet Adam is shaking in his boots now," Evel laughed to herself.

I find that comfusing. Conversations going on inside two different heads.

 

[evanslily]

"Adam watched with horror as Eve plucked the apple from the tree. He knew the future of the world had just changed irrevocably.

Eve batted her eyes at Adam as she bit lasciviously into the forbidden fruit the serpent had led her to. She desperately wanted the man to make love to her, she felt a hot moisture between her legs."

I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I've certainly read many contemporary novels where that happens--a lot. The trick, I think, is to not swap POV too violently, in other words, include at least one transition sentence where it's not obvious which POV the narrator is in. So in Elfin's example above, the transition sentence is 'Eve batted her eyes at Adam as she bit lasciviously into the forbidden fruit the serpent had led her to'. That sentence could be in either POV. It softens the effect, giving the reader time to switch.

I say 'try it'. See how it feels when you've written it, give it to someone else to read before you post it if you're not sure, just to get a feeling of perspective. But I think you'll know if it doesn't work--the very fact that you're asking the question tells me that...

 

[Oblimo]

f you narrate in third person omniscient, you are writing in more than one POV in every scene.

I don't see it that way.

The omniscient narrator is it's own POV, the "little-did-he-know" POV. The narrator can dip in and out of different character's heads, but like a movie camera angle, cut too many times or without the set-up of and end of a scene or sequence, and you get Confuse-O-Vision.

 

[manyeyedhydra]

My preference is to focus on one character's thoughts and indicate a POV or scene change with a:

*****

I don't know if this is correct or the only way. It's just what I find most comfortable doing.

I think it's hard to pull off POV changes successfully in a short story (< 5000 words). I tried it on a couple and received comments that it made the story more confusing, though that might have been because I didn't make the characters strong enough. I have a bad habit of forgetting the reader doesn't have the advantage of knowing exactly what's going on

 

[sr71plt]

If you manage to establish with the reader that she/he is going to get a pov switch with every paragraph, go ahead and try it. It conceivably can work if you do it well--nothing is beyond the bounds of trying (and cashing the check if it works).

The practical downsides to this are not successfully identifying the switches to the reader and, even if well identified, tiring the reader out with all the work they have to do to keep up with the switches. The shorter the piece, the more likely it will work, I would think--and the writing probably has to be brilliant and crisp. I wouldn't try doing this with more than two characters. And once committed to the pattern, you'd probably have to sustain the pattern for the reader to be comfortable.

 

[manyeyedhydra]

If you manage to establish with the reader that she/he is going to get a pov switch with every paragraph, go ahead and try it. It conceivably can work if you do it well--nothing is beyond the bounds of trying (and cashing the check if it works).

The practical downsides to this are not successfully identifying the switches to the reader and, even if well identified, tiring the reader out with all the work they have to do to keep up with the switches. The shorter the piece, the more likely it will work, I would think--and the writing probably has to be brilliant and crisp. I wouldn't try doing this with more than two characters. And once committed to the pattern, you'd probably have to sustain the pattern for the reader to be comfortable.

I can see this being quite restrictive as you get locked into using paragraphs only for POV shifts. I'd worry about getting stuck with the dreaded 'wall of text' paragraphs that send people to the back-click button.

Not impossible, but probably very hard to pull off without leaving the reader feeling like they're spinning on the spot

 

[fieryjen]

As a reader, I hate switching POV within a scene, but that's just my personal taste. It makes me feel schizophrenic to know what both characters are thinking at the same time.

 

[sr71plt]

Yes, yes, I think I pointed to the difficulties. Still, writers don't win Pulitzers by doing the safe. They win by making the "impossible" work. So, trying to see if you can make it work rather than doing the "we've never taken a ship farther out than we can still see the coast" is why they call it creative writing.

 

[mjl2010]

**snip**
Adam was horrided at Eve's egotism when she snatched the apple. "What could she be thinking?" he wondered.
"I bet Adam is shaking in his boots now," Evel laughed to herself.

I find that comfusing. Conversations going on inside two different heads. **end snip**

Comfusing, horrided? Jenny have you been in the rum?

"I bet Adam is shaking in his fig leaf now," Evel laughed to herself.

I just wanted to clear up that up *grin* before I stuck my foot in my mouth.

I think as long as you clearly show who is thinking, speaking and acting and write it from a narrators point of view rather than a characters point of view, you'll be fine. Show me a well written novel and you'll see various characters thinking, speaking and acting.

The Ball Game!
Alex stood at the plate, tapped it twice with his bat and took his stance. He could see Mark check the runner at first and then ready his windup. Tom edged further off first base, his eyes intent on Alex and ready for the bunt he knew was coming. "Come on," Alex thought. "Give me anything I can reach."

Mark saw Alex's eyes flicker towards first. He moved his hands closer together as if he was going into his windup but his foot had not yet touched the rubber.

John behind the plate gave a slight motion towards first with his catchers mitt. "You got him if you throw now," he thought.

Tom, watching Alex carefully, didn't even see Mark whirl and throw until it was too late. Reggie snagged the ball out of the air with his glove and tagged Tom just as Tom realized he was caught. "Gotcha!" Mark thought and gave Reggie a thumbs up as the team headed for the dugout. The first inning was over and there were eight left. No runs, one hit and no errors and if Mark was lucky, Becky would be waiting to give him a blowjob after the game. end

(It is baseball season finally!) Here you have a number of different characters playing a game of baseball. What's wrong with showing what each is thinking as the game goes on. I think if you use a paragraph for each player, you can easily do this and not confuse the reader. But you have to be clear who is thinking and doing what.

Granted, this ball game could be written from the pov of the announcer, but then you wouldn't get to see inside each players head. Instead, Bob Uker would just say "What the Heck was Tom thinking on that play! Say folks when you get thirsty, grab yourself an ice cold Miller Lite. After the game, it's Miller Time. So thats the end of the first and a disappointing start for..."

Where appropriate, show the thoughts and actions from the appropriate characters point of view.

MJL

 

[Isobael]

Where appropriate, show the thoughts and actions from the appropriate characters point of view.

MJL

Exactly!

Within the same chapter, I try to write out and describe one character's POV first and then use the * * * marks to note a change in POV in the same scene.

I've been reading Sherilyn Kenyon's "Dark Hunter" series and she notes a POV change merely with a new paragraph, in the same scene and chapter.

I don't understand how that is confusing to people. As long as it's stated who's thinking what, and it's clear whose POV it is, there shouldn't be any confusion.

There's always going to be critics that are going to tear writer's down, no matter what they write or how they write it. Someone's always going to hate what and how you write.

 

[Elianna]

Okay... so I know I'm telling in 3rd person omniscient, but I'm still focusing on one POV. I think I'm going to keep it there and tell it from the one character's perspective.

I agree that I could have switched, but since I've adhered to grouping for 5 chapters, now, I think it will be inconsistent.

I think that in my next story (which I have several in mind) I'll try doing the 3rd person with switching a little more. Now I think I'm stuck because I've followed a convention this far. I guess this is good because it's pushing me to be a better writer by forcing me to follow a somewhwat rigid guideline...

Oi! I may revisit this post when post another story....

Speaking of which... how pissed at me do you think my readers will get if I start posting chapters of other stories(not Falling)? I've tried to maintain focus on this one, but I keep getting sidetracked into other ones that I might like to share...

Will I lose my fanbase or increase it? (I have a couple sci-fi, and a romance that I kinda like)

?????

 

[Isobael]

Speaking of which... how pissed at me do you think my readers will get if I start posting chapters of other stories(not Falling)? I've tried to maintain focus on this one, but I keep getting sidetracked into other ones that I might like to share...

Will I lose my fanbase or increase it? (I have a couple sci-fi, and a romance that I kinda like)

?????

I won't be pissed, nor will you lose me as a reader.

Actually, I was thinking along the same lines as you there.

Sometimes, we need a break from the ONE story and post something else.

 

[The_Fractal_King]

Okay... so I know I'm telling in 3rd person omniscient, but I'm still focusing on one POV. I think I'm going to keep it there and tell it from the one character's perspective.

I agree that I could have switched, but since I've adhered to grouping for 5 chapters, now, I think it will be inconsistent.

I think that in my next story (which I have several in mind) I'll try doing the 3rd person with switching a little more. Now I think I'm stuck because I've followed a convention this far. I guess this is good because it's pushing me to be a better writer by forcing me to follow a somewhwat rigid guideline...

Oi! I may revisit this post when post another story....

Speaking of which... how pissed at me do you think my readers will get if I start posting chapters of other stories(not Falling)? I've tried to maintain focus on this one, but I keep getting sidetracked into other ones that I might like to share...

Will I lose my fanbase or increase it? (I have a couple sci-fi, and a romance that I kinda like)

?????

I would assume it would increase. Stories in more sections means a wider group of people looking at the stories. Some of those people are bound to look at other stuff you've written.

 

[Watercrazy]

This is my first post on this forum and I’m not English native so please be patient with my English proficiency. I feel that one of my favorites stories is threatened so...thought to say something...
Now...on topic - I’m a fan of Falling and I’d like to read more of your stories but please keep at least the same rhythm of posting chapters of Falling.
I feel cheated when the author of a story I really like states that has no time to write but starts another story and forgets or delays the first one.

 

[Elianna]

Don't worry darlin'. I'm going to keep up with Falling. Thanks for the encouragement!

I guess I was just shocked that people (other than me) liked my stuff and it made me wonder if I should post some of my other little stories. I'm still new at the whole writing thing and I'm struggling to develop my rhythm to it all. Falling has already been such a learning experience. Don't worry. I get pissed off at people who start stories and never finish them, too.

 

[sr71plt]

Don't worry darlin'. I'm going to keep up with Falling. Thanks for the encouragement!

I guess I was just shocked that people (other than me) liked my stuff and it made me wonder if I should post some of my other little stories. I'm still new at the whole writing thing and I'm struggling to develop my rhythm to it all. Falling has already been such a learning experience. Don't worry. I get pissed off at people who start stories and never finish them, too.

If it's any help--I submit a story pretty much every other day. When I have a series running (and I don't start posting a series until it's all written), I post two chapters of the series and then a completely different story and then two chapters of the series and a completely different story. . . . That keeps the series from spinning out too long, but gives readers who won't read a series something to chomp on as well.

 

[Elianna]

If it's any help--I submit a story pretty much every other day. When I have a series running (and I don't start posting a series until it's all written), I post two chapters of the series and then a completely different story and then two chapters of the series and a completely different story. . . . That keeps the series from spinning out too long, but gives readers who won't read a series something to chomp on as well.

I thought I had the story written and then... I keep revising it. Now... It's taken on a life of its own. I'm just trying to keep up on a weekly basis. Once grad school is over I hope to be able to keep up a little better.

 

[Daniellekitten]

I used to be the same way. I liked having my readers know what both sides were feeling and enjoying. I started using a trick, sort of. Half way through a sex scene I would use a pov break and then back up a bit, writing the scene in the other's pov. You get both but still it's done correctly.