The Grand National...

[naxalite0906]

Just wondered how much interest this event creates. Obviously, being from the UK, I know how popular it does get here, but I was wondering if anyone else from other parts of the world follows this event, or horse racing in general.

If so, please offer your tips or opinions

 

[JMohegan]

Just wondered how much interest this event creates. Obviously, being from the UK, I know how popular it does get here, but I was wondering if anyone else from other parts of the world follows this event, or horse racing in general.

If so, please offer your tips or opinions

This the race that's notorious for the number of injured & dead horses resulting from dangerous hurdles, right? How many are injured and/or killed each year, do you know?

 

[WriterDom]

Our triple crown gets a lot of coverage but that's about it.

 

[naxalite0906]

This the race that's notorious for the number of injured & dead horses resulting from dangerous hurdles, right? How many are injured and/or killed each year, do you know?

Wow.. that seems like a huge dig.....

Not as many as people seem to think. It is just the fact the race is so popular and gets so much coverage that the injury/death factor gets amplified.

If I have ended up causing an animal rights argument, then maybe I should get my coat I only made the thread because of the hype because it is this weekend.

 

[SweetGigi]

We go to the Kentucky Derby, The Oaks, and several different Steeplechase events each year. It is a shame I won't able to go to the Derby this year. We really enjoy these events and they always prove to be exciting and fun. They are great socials and good for hobnobbing. The clothes are usually to die for as well.

 

[naxalite0906]

We go to the Kentucky Derby, The Oaks, and several different Steeplechase events each year. It is a shame I won't able to go to the Derby this year. We really enjoy these events and they always peove to be exciting and fun. They are great socials and good for hobknobing. The clothes are usually to die for as well.

Ive never seen steeplechasing in the states, just the flat on turf or dirt. I'm sure the derby and the oaks would be a lot of fun. I've had my derby bet already

 

[JMohegan]

Wow.. that seems like a huge dig.....

Not as many as people seem to think. It is just the fact the race is so popular and gets so much coverage that the injury/death factor gets amplified.

If I have ended up causing an animal rights argument, then maybe I should get my coat I only made the thread because of the hype because it is this weekend.

It wasn't a dig. It was a straight question. I don't know the answer, so I was asking - do you?

You asked what interest the event generates among non-UK people. The interest I've heard relates to concern for the animals. Again, not a dig, just an honest response.

 

[naxalite0906]

It wasn't a dig. It was a straight question. I don't know the answer, so I was asking - do you?

You asked what interest the event generates among non-UK people. The interest I've heard relates to concern for the animals. Again, not a dig, just an honest response.

I cannot find an exact answer to the question, but up to 2001, 32 horses died since 1945, so my guess would be 40 maximum.

To be honest, I think that there has always been a back and forth argument over the animal safety side of horse racing, not just the national itself. I guess it is one of those cases where the animals are bred to do that job, and during their lifetime (even though racing is dangerous) the animal leads a far more pampered life than some horses or animals do that are bred for other jobs. But obviously, that is just one opinion on the matter. Like I said, I wasnt trying to cause an animal rights argument

 

[Netzach]

My great step grandfather snapped his neck riding steeplechase and died. I'm curious about how many jockeys get killed actually. He was Irish, so no one got their dander up too much back then. I imagine the horse was worth more.

I don't follow it too closely, but the Dick Francis anecdote is one of the most interesting and strange in all of sports history, I think.

 

[naxalite0906]

My great step grandfather snapped his neck riding steeplechase and died. I'm curious about how many jockeys get killed actually. He was Irish, so no one got their dander up too much back then. I imagine the horse was worth more.

I don't follow it too closely, but the Dick Francis anecdote is one of the most interesting and strange in all of sports history, I think.

Is that blood sport, or 10lb penalty?

In terms of jockeys, obviously it is dangerous for them, but the number of deaths is very few it would seem.

There are people I know who watch horse racing and if they see a faller, they look to see if the horse is ok as it is usually taken for granted that the jockey is. I guess it is kind of ironic that with all the animal rights stuff associated with horse racing, the people who love horse racing always seem to care more about the horses than the jockeys.

 

[JMohegan]

I cannot find an exact answer to the question, but up to 2001, 32 horses died since 1945, so my guess would be 40 maximum.

To be honest, I think that there has always been a back and forth argument over the animal safety side of horse racing, not just the national itself. I guess it is one of those cases where the animals are bred to do that job, and during their lifetime (even though racing is dangerous) the animal leads a far more pampered life than some horses or animals do that are bred for other jobs. But obviously, that is just one opinion on the matter. Like I said, I wasnt trying to cause an animal rights argument

Thanks for the response to my question.

Regarding animal rights arguments - they are rarely productive and hence almost never worth the time & effort.

 

[Netzach]

Is that blood sport, or 10lb penalty?

In terms of jockeys, obviously it is dangerous for them, but the number of deaths is very few it would seem.

There are people I know who watch horse racing and if they see a faller, they look to see if the horse is ok as it is usually taken for granted that the jockey is. I guess it is kind of ironic that with all the animal rights stuff associated with horse racing, the people who love horse racing always seem to care more about the horses than the jockeys.

Yeah, I kind of come down on the jockey side of it, but I'm an uncaring asshole like that. Anyhow, I honestly don't know, it was c. 18something and probably whichever more poor Irishmen were more likely to be involved in. At 12 or 13 you don't know what questions to ask.

 

[naxalite0906]

Thanks for the response to my question.

Regarding animal rights arguments - they are rarely productive and hence almost never worth the time & effort.

No problem.... I'm never one to rock the boat and always open to what people have to say.

And as for arguments, I can agree there too

 

[naxalite0906]

Yeah, I kind of come down on the jockey side of it, but I'm an uncaring asshole like that. Anyhow, I honestly don't know, it was c. 18something and probably whichever more poor Irishmen were more likely to be involved in. At 12 or 13 you don't know what questions to ask.

I wouldnt say you are uncaring for thinking like that..

And I am confused now, I asked what anecdote you meant as I am unfamiliar with it. Unless we are talking about a different Dick Francis.. lol

 

[JMohegan]

I guess it is kind of ironic that with all the animal rights stuff associated with horse racing, the people who love horse racing always seem to care more about the horses than the jockeys.

My ill-informed impression is that the horse's skill matters more than the jockey's. I'm sure this is wrong, but it's hard not to view it as the jockey as just sitting there, and the horse doing all the work.

As for sympathy when a jockey dies, my assumption is that the jockey understood, accepted, and most likely relished the risks involved. On the scale of human tragedies, therefore, I'd say this ranks very low.

 

[Netzach]

I wouldnt say you are uncaring for thinking like that..

And I am confused now, I asked what anecdote you meant as I am unfamiliar with it. Unless we are talking about a different Dick Francis.. lol

The jockey turned author who cranked out over 30 fairly decent mysteries set in the racing world, and in 1956 rode Devon Loch, who, with a clear lead, collapsed and "slid into home" thus losing. I've seen footage of it - it's very weird.

The horse was OK, though done racing, the slide attributed to maybe a leg cramp, and Devon Loch lived on till 1963.

 

[naxalite0906]

My ill-informed impression is that the horse's skill matters more than the jockey's. I'm sure this is wrong, but it's hard not to view it as the jockey as just sitting there, and the horse doing all the work.

As for sympathy when a jockey dies, my assumption is that the jockey understood, accepted, and most likely relished the risks involved. On the scale of human tragedies, therefore, I'd say this ranks very low.

I have not been there myself, but I would say that 90% of the time, the jockey is needed too.. especially with jump racing. There are very few occaisions when the horse is so good that the jockey is just a pilot. Maybe we both need to ride a race and see how hard it is Of course, the horse works hard too, hence why they are treated so well in their stable etc, but there are definitely certain jockeys who are better than others, and they have a big part to play too.

You are right though with the jockey knowing the risk. They choose to ride, so they know what to expect.

 

[JMohegan]

I have not been there myself, but I would say that 90% of the time, the jockey is needed too.. especially with jump racing. There are very few occaisions when the horse is so good that the jockey is just a pilot. Maybe we both need to ride a race and see how hard it is Of course, the horse works hard too, hence why they are treated so well in their stable etc, but there are definitely certain jockeys who are better than others, and they have a big part to play too.

You are right though with the jockey knowing the risk. They choose to ride, so they know what to expect.

I'm 6' 2". The idea of scrunching myself up on top of a horse jumping over a mega-hedge makes me lol! It's just not gonna happen in this lifetime.

But I agree with your implicit point, of course. As with so many things, you've gotta actually try it to understand how and why it's tough. I wonder how much Grand National jockeys get paid.

 

[naxalite0906]

I'm 6' 2". The idea of scrunching myself up on top of a horse jumping over a mega-hedge makes me lol! It's just not gonna happen in this lifetime.

But I agree with your implicit point, of course. As with so many things, you've gotta actually try it to understand how and why it's tough. I wonder how much Grand National jockeys get paid.

Jockeys get a flat fee per race over any meeting I think. This doesnt change a lot, even with the bigger race meetings. Obviously they get a cut of the winnings though if they ride a horse to victory. I think the fee is £80 - £100 per race.
For the national, and the risk, this may seem small, but for a jockey, riding in the national is what they all aim to do and I would imagine that they would do it for free because of how special it is to them.

 

[witcha]

I have to be interested in it working in a betting shop lol..my tip would by snowy morning..cloudy lane is just poor value

 

[naxalite0906]

I have to be interested in it working in a betting shop lol..my tip would by snowy morning..cloudy lane is just poor value

Now we are talking, punting talk! lol.... Would it be rude to ask which company you work for.. if you are shy, you can PM if you want

I would say snowy has a chance, but my main one would be Turko. Possibly hedgehunter too. My main bet was a non runner the other day, bit gutted about that one.

 

[witcha]

Let's just say it's not Williamhill nor Corals Am really just hoping for a place with such odds lol..hope you waited till it was non runner no bet offer available

 

[naxalite0906]

Let's just say it's not Williamhill nor Corals Am really just hoping for a place with such odds lol..hope you waited till it was non runner no bet offer available

Well i work in the industry too, and at the time there was a rush of money for it so I had to back it.. couldnt really wait for the non runner no bet market.. Oh well, you can't win em all eh There are plenty of other tips flying around that tend to work out alot better.

 

[minx1]

This the race that's notorious for the number of injured & dead horses resulting from dangerous hurdles, right?

*nods* Its a notoriously bad race for horse injuries and deaths and because of that its one that I never watch or would ever consider betting on. Its still a bit of a national institution here though with many workplaces running syndicates etc.
I suppose the Australian equivalent would be the Melbourne cup. Everything seems to stop for that. Its on the flat though and much safer for the horses I guess....though I am certainly no expert.

 

[BiBunny]

I don't know much about the Grand National (other than what I read in National Velvet when was younger, which can't be THAT accurate). But my horsey friends and I have a saying for people who think riding of any kind is easy for the human: "Yeah, it's just like downhill skiing. You know, where the hill does all the work!"

I know for a fact how much work it takes to ride, as opposed to just being a passenger. I can imagine that amount is probably quadrupled riding a high-powered Thoroughbred wide open, either on the flat or over fences. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere once that once weight is accounted for, pound for pound, jockeys are some of the strongest athletes on the planet. When you consider that most of them hover around 5' tall and weigh only a bit over 100 pounds, and they are constantly wrestling 1,000 pound horses...yeah. Wow.