Emotional Incest

[dr_mabeuse]

Came across this interesting concept on a pop-shrink site http://www.bharatbhasha.com/parenting.php/67548

I'm posting it here because this kind of thing should have a name.

Jacob, a participant in one of my telephone support groups, was exploring the fact that he generally didn't like to be touched. He was sharing with the group a situation that used to happen with his mother.

"She used to sit me on the couch with her and grab my arms and look intently into my eyes, telling me how much she loved me and how important to her I was. I don't know exactly how to describe what I felt when she did that."

"Was it a yucky feeling?" asked Sarah, another participant.

"Yes, that's exactly the word! Yucky! So yucky! Why did it feel so yucky?"

"Because," Sarah said, "It was emotional incest. I know all about this yucky feeling. My father did the same thing with me."

Emotional incest occurs when a parent energetically uses a child to fill an inner emptiness that the parent is not taking responsibility for filling. When a parent abandons himself or herself, that parent might latch on to a child to fill the black hole that occurs from self-abandonment. While it might not be as traumatic as sexual incest, it occurs for the same reasons - a wounded parent using a child addictively to get love and avoid pain.

 

[pellso27]

I like the touchy feely kind

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Thats not emotional incest.

Emotional incest is when you help them get into or out of their underwear, they sleep with you naked, and give hints that maybe you could fill daddy's shoes. The point of emotional incest is to get you aroused NOT uncomfortable.

 

[jomar]

JBJ

Emotional incest is not about arousal. It's about a parent inappropriately relying on their child for emotional support and rescue - support which they should be getting from an adult. Doesn't automatically involve sex.

 

[tickledkitty]

JBJ

Emotional incest is not about arousal. It's about a parent inappropriately relying on their child for emotional support and rescue - support which they should be getting from an adult. Doesn't automatically involve sex.

Seems like a lot of us would have been involved in those types of relationships. I really wish there was another name for it. Just the word incest conjurs up a lot of ugliness that might make people hesitant to discuss it.

 

[jomar]

Seems like a lot of us would have been involved in those types of relationships. I really wish there was another name for it. Just the word incest conjurs up a lot of ugliness that might make people hesitant to discuss it.

That's a good point. Emotional abuse should cover it, but I guess whoever coined it wanted to carve out a specific element of emotional abuse. I don't know that, just guessing.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Seems like a lot of us would have been involved in those types of relationships. I really wish there was another name for it. Just the word incest conjurs up a lot of ugliness that might make people hesitant to discuss it.

I think it's the use of the word incest that makes the concept so powerful. It's abuse of that most fundamental relationship - that between parent and child. There are so many ways of fucking up that critical bond that it's important to be aware of them and point them out.

 

[tickledkitty]

I think it's the use of the word incest that makes the concept so powerful. It's abuse of that most fundamental relationship - that between parent and child. There are so many ways of fucking up that critical bond that it's important to be aware of them and point them out.

Actually, I was thinking along those same lines. It's the sneaky, self-serving part of it, I think, that likens it to incest. Just having that hold over a child, that power...the ability to torture them with just a look or a word or tears. The idea that it's all done in love. Yeah, very ugly.

 

[OneLustyWench]

I still remember an uncle that was creepy that way. Didn't do much but put a hand on my knee and look deep into my eyes and talk to me in a low tone.

It is emotional to the young person. Maybe not incest but it is very emotional.

 

[Trinique_Fire]

Came across this interesting concept on a pop-shrink site http://www.bharatbhasha.com/parenting.php/67548

I'm posting it here because this kind of thing should have a name.

Sounds like a concept that should be applied to my dad. The things he did were different though, and of course, who'd believe me now?

 

[neonlyte]

How curious...

Are we saying a parent can feel pain for the child, but the child can't feel pain for the parent?

Pain is emotion. Pure and simple... it cuts both ways. It's psychological and physiological, sometimes indistinguishable, often uncontrollable. Emotional incest is the most bizarre juxtaposition of words I've seen in a long time. it's application can only be uni-directional, in the sense that a child lacks emotional responsibility. A child's motivation - until they distinguish between shades of emotion to manipulate desire - is emotional dependence. Withholding emotion from a child has always been the easier route to the domination of a child's spirit.

What about children who fill the role of carer... are they being emotionally 'raped'?

 

[Solange22]

Wtf?

I agree with neonlyte. Has the world become so cold that a child cannot make a loved one feel better emotionally. What is wrong with you people. Come on emotional incest? Are you serious. I as a parent have often looked deep into my childrens eyes and have said I LOVE YOU, because you know what I deeply and unconditionally love my kids.

 

[Liar]

Difference is, as always, intent.

Is the intention from the parent a giving one, to show and assure the child that it is loved? Or is the intention from the parent a taking one, to play on the parental bond in order to be loved (or really just emotionally depended on) by the child?

I'm pretty sure that for many children, in the midst of the confusion of growing up, the well-meaning former can often be mistaken for the latter and feel, as quoted, "yucky".

When kids are reasonably grown-up, with enough emotional maturity to be individuals, I expect a parent-child relationship to be an equal giving and taking in this regard. But up until then, it can be tricky business.

 

[impressive]

There were plenty of times during my middle/high school ... and college ... and "career" years when I felt as if my mother was "living through" me. She pushed me to do all the things that she had been unable or unwilling to attempt and made me feel loved/appreciated when I did (and a huge disappointment/embarrassment when I didn't). Not sure this is the same thing, though. I always viewed it as passive aggression.

 

[jomar]

I think it's the use of the word incest that makes the concept so powerful. It's abuse of that most fundamental relationship - that between parent and child. There are so many ways of fucking up that critical bond that it's important to be aware of them and point them out.

That too, of course.

 

[tickledkitty]

How curious...

Are we saying a parent can feel pain for the child, but the child can't feel pain for the parent?

Pain is emotion. Pure and simple... it cuts both ways. It's psychological and physiological, sometimes indistinguishable, often uncontrollable. Emotional incest is the most bizarre juxtaposition of words I've seen in a long time. it's application can only be uni-directional, in the sense that a child lacks emotional responsibility. A child's motivation - until they distinguish between shades of emotion to manipulate desire - is emotional dependence. Withholding emotion from a child has always been the easier route to the domination of a child's spirit.

What about children who fill the role of carer... are they being emotionally 'raped'?

No, not at all. There's more to it than just "feeling pain for the parent." It's being forced to take responsibility for the parent's pain and emotional well being. It's manipulation and imposition over time. It's using the child almost as a surrogate spouse, when satisfaction can't be achieved with another adult. The child's motivation is NOT emotional dependence. It's to seek love and approval, which they get by doing and being what the parent wants.

This is not unconditional love, even though the parents may tell themselves that it is. What Liar said is true. It's all about intent.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

JOMAR

I'm confident my understanding of the term is correct. Youre speaking of inappropriate relationship boundaries. When the intention is arousal it's emotional incest.

 

[neonlyte]

No, not at all. There's more to it than just "feeling pain for the parent." It's being forced to take responsibility for the parent's pain and emotional well being. It's manipulation and imposition over time. It's using the child almost as a surrogate spouse, when satisfaction can't be achieved with another adult. The child's motivation is NOT emotional dependence. It's to seek love and approval, which they get by doing and being what the parent wants.

This is not unconditional love, even though the parents may tell themselves that it is. What Liar said is true. It's all about intent.

Which bit is 'No, not at all.' ?

I'll assume all of it.

A child cannot know it is being emotionally 'blackmailed' until he/she is old enough and wise enough to recognise the difference between action and consequence... even then, an situation may continue because the child wants/needs/or fails to recognise the abnormality of the situation.

I'd contend most parents do not wittingly embark upon this kind of relationship, headline cases are exceptions rather than the norm.

As for intent... is that a given in any relationship? I intend to love, I intend to cheat, I intend to hurt. It's easy to confuse intent/manipulation when pairing 'emotional incest'. The words themselves are a deceitful construct and no matter what emotion they invoke in me, the concept that springs to mind is manipulation, a conspiracy to control... and that has little to do with emotion and a lot to do with 'desire' painted many hues.

It's the words I object to, TK. The actions the words imply are beneath contempt and have moved far beyond what is accepted as the normal emotional relationship between parent and child. The problem is... a child won't necessarily know that.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

These threads get silly fast when a herd of dilettantes start swapping fables and myths.

Many well meaning people redefine healthy and natural responses and interactions as pathology. This 'pathology' alienates and isolates people from comfort that is usually beneficial.

I was 6 when my grandfather died, and alone with my grandmother when the hospital called with the news. I sensed her pain and comforted her to the best of my 6 year old ability. Had she rejected the comfort and lectured me about 'rescuing' people from their feelings, I believe I would have learned the wrong lesson about expressing love and caring. But this sort of austere and spartan, forced alienation is bullshit.

 

[tickledkitty]

These threads get silly fast when a herd of dilettantes start swapping fables and myths.

James? It's just a discussion. Dilettantes are allowed to have them too. Nobody is forcing you to read it or participate.

 

[rgraham666]

Hey! Don't go ruining Jimmy Bob's fun!

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

TK

You'd be amazed how many people read the crap that gets posted here, and takes it as Gospel.

In the last 20 years people are scared shitless to touch a child because the fanatics have everyone convinced that everything is abuse.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Kind of makes me wonder.
Do we moderate abuse the same way we moderate pain? Do people have different tolerances?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

ABSTRUSE

Let me turn the question around. Is it abuse if someone paddles your ass for fun? Or is it abuse if they intend to hurt you? The physical results are usually identical.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

ABSTRUSE

Let me turn the question around. Is it abuse if someone paddles your ass for fun? Or is it abuse if they intend to hurt you? The physical results are usually identical.

Now we're thinkin.